Pauter block cooling options

[Andy Sykes]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

[Airspeed]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

You asking this question can only mean one thing: you have changed your mind _again_ on your engine build!? 
 

[Andy Sykes]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

You asking this question can only mean one thing: you have changed your mind _again_ on your engine build!? 
 

Lol that's nothing compared to what nearly was going in the car until the sale fell through today lol

[Shag55]

Take a look at Dons car on there website. Hard part is getting a should that fits right.

[richie]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

Andy

you need to check out what Don pauter has done with the pauter big block in his Ghia street car,he has got it pretty well figured out now and drives all over So cal with it

or buy a subaru


cheers richie

[dannyboy]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

Andy

you need to check out what Don pauter has done with the pauter big block in his Ghia street car,he has got it pretty well figured out now and drives all over So cal with it

fucking subaru   
or buy a subaru


cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Take a look at Dons car on there website. Hard part is getting a should that fits right.

Thanks I will

Cheers andy

[Andy Sykes]

Hi guys what option are out there for cooling a Pauter block engine ? Pics would also be cool

Cheers andy

Andy

you need to check out what Don pauter has done with the pauter big block in his Ghia street car,he has got it pretty well figured out now and drives all over So cal with it

or buy a subaru


cheers richie

With that last comment I think Richie is drunk lol

Ches andy

[richie]

or buy a subaru


cheers richie

With that last comment I think Richie is drunk lol

Ches andy
[/quote]

I only drink tea so its unlikely




but why not?

by you own signature you have no idea what you are doing


and seem to change you mind every week if you really want streetable then pauter proberly isnt the best idea,maybe you could buy Dannys engine


cheers richie

Or do you need it to be able to pull that trailer as your motorhome isnt powerfull enough  

[Airspeed]

Ouch...

The man has a point though. Why ask about cooling on a Pauter block? Thats not what they are ultimately are made for..
What is it you really want?

[Andy Sykes]

You are correct I do have no idea what doing first time I've built a race car so I would change my mind a lot as i can as im very lucky in what i do as a day job. i also want it right and to the vision I have in my head. I don't follow the crowd an do what I think may work but listen to others who know more than me. there are so many options out there engine wise I want to make sure I spend the money on the right thing for me  as , It will do wont do, any way back to the brain storming

Cheers  andy

[Andy Sykes]

Ouch...

The man has a point though. Why ask about cooling on a Pauter block? Thats not what they are ultimately are made for..
What is it you really want?

There no ouch about it I put the question out there for an answer nobody said anything about street able

Cheers andy

[richie]

Ouch...

The man has a point though. Why ask about cooling on a Pauter block? Thats not what they are ultimately are made for..
What is it you really want?

There no ouch about it I put the question out there for an answer nobody said anything about street able

Cheers andy

and I ment no disrespect in my reply,more tongue in cheek    

If all you want to do is move it at the track consider using methanol,it will run cool enough that you wont need a tow vehicle at the track and the info for running a pauter on methanol is huge,the guys at pauter proberly know as much as anyone about it.

But your wanting to use JPM heads is the most confusing,the real advantage of them is the cooling over other aftermarket heads,if you just want a race motor then there are other options that will suit the hp you seem to want better,try not to get too hung up on a name,look for what it will actually do,how strong it is,how easy you can get a replacement if it breaks and how much info is available to you in getting it to work,what you are trying to do is a pretty steep learning curve and there are not many who have actually done it,[plenty of internet experts though ]and even less who will share truthfull info with anyone

cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Sorry I misunderstood the tone of your reply, so correct me if I'm wrong presently

JPM heads valve train etc  as I like the engineering and thinking behind it
Pauter block as I see it as bomb proof

What I want is to make somthing different
Try to make big power no point doing things by half not just to say my motor makes blah blah but use what out there to do somthing interesting

When I've got all this together what ever it turns out to be have a reliable race car that I don't need a tow car, don't have to charge batteries , and don't have to wait and hour for it to cool down and grow some balls to run a 9

Buying a whole pauter engine at present looks like a good idea

Cheers andy

[Fiatdude]

Pauter OR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Og2G4FkuL0w

[Stripped66]

DO IT!!!

Taking a race engine, adding a cooling system and making it streetable is a whole lot more respectable than taking a street engine, removing the cooling system and calling it a "race engine".

[Airspeed]

What I want is to make somthing different
Try to make big power no point doing things by half not just to say my motor makes blah blah but use what out there to do somthing interesting

When I've got all this together what ever it turns out to be have a reliable race car that I don't need a tow car, don't have to charge batteries , and don't have to wait and hour for it to cool down and grow some balls to run a 9

Buying a whole pauter engine at present looks like a good idea

Cheers andy

Did you really just say you want a reliable race car?  

I think the above summery from Richie it was pretty much spot on.
As for wanteing something different; I think we all ultimately want more or less the same. Just using a full-out race engine without cooling is much easier and lots and lost less money.
Even with the money and the brains, it just doesn;t always becomes a succes to do what you described here above.
If you look at two very skillfull car owners we all know, you even better then me I think,: Russ Fellows car and Martin's Split: To get them to run for longer times without needing longer cool-downs, both ultimately went to watercool the heads.
Just saying thats how easy it is to make 5-fin racing heads cool between rounds... it obviously isn't.

The challenge is indeed making the heads cool and I would go from there: finding good cooling heads with extreme power potential. The Pauter motor is a tractor block in comparison to any street-orientated engine imo. The dragster from Hotrod (Henk Hendriks) over here runs one and I've seen it in all shapes over the time. Henk runs Pauter heads for a long time already too (on T4 engines with NOS); its all extremely massive, so much even that you can hardly imagine that it can only cool other then from heat soak.

Besides a partitioned cooling shroud, afaik Don has severely machined the fins on his heads on the street Ghia deeper into the casting as to enlarge surface area somewhat, but it still doen't look like a lot. Still, with low/mild static compression and a huge displacement, the engine doens't need much to work and stays cool enough for what he does do with it. Big props to him, but you want it boosted to 800 hp and do the same. Even if you could get it working like Don's engine, its still a big difference I think what happens after you ran an 800 hp run and wanting to return to the staging lanes multiple times. Even the strongest of engine platforms WILL still fail when they are overheated. They can take more load, but not much more heat.
With all due respect, but experimenting with Pauter block engines which are designed for one thing only (and that not being run on the street), you may be in for a long journey with them imho and that is not what you seek if I understood you correctly.

Getting back to the head cooling: as stated I would go from there. Besides JPM, there is a new CNC billet head from Thorsten Pieper specially designed for street use on an aircooled WBX engine. They look to flow and cool even more and might be able to make the hp with less boost then the JPM head.

Whatever you decide, it will be extremely interesting what your results will be Andy. Big thanks for sharing!
Walter

[Andy Sykes]

I think the only answer is just balls out and buy a Pauter big block and fook all this experimenting off , I'm not looking to go round and round as I think theres other stuff that needs doing ie packing chutes checking tyres etc. I'm under no dialusion not matter what power I may get its going to take me a  long time to even learn to drive the the tink let alone tuning the chassis and what I've done so far to may not work. And I guess living 5 miles from Santa pod I could drive there with a little cooling   

Cheers andy

[Martin]

Mine and Russ's cool just fine...    but we are running water jackets on the head.  Russ also has a 911 fan cooling the barrels, but mine doesnt and mine runs cooler than his.

Don's own big block is the way to do it if you want to stay air cooled.


If you have the budget, just call Mario tell him what you want to do, and he'll build it for you.


Martin

[Andy Sykes]

Thats good news on the cooling do you have a picture of the water jackets Martin?

Cheers andy

[richie]

Andy

its actually very difficult trying to recomend something specific for someones elses car,when what they want in the way of looks,performance and relibility are totally different to my own,for example you were considering buying the engine from Matt Keenes car correct? now I wouldnt even consider that as an option.I am into aircooled volkswagens,its that simple fo rme so anything else doesnt interest me,the engineering & hp gained from them amazes me,whether it be WBX,rotary,4 cylinder inline,V6 or even V8 and I enjoy reading about all the flavours,but in my car it has to be aircooled[helped a little by the methanol I grant you ]

If you said to me what should I buy/build for a reliable 700+hp I know exactly what it would be but having discussed the crank budget with you before I know even you dont have an endless supply of money so are looking for a bargain as such.

Maybe a proven combo like a complete pauter is the answer,but even they have some issues when pushed hard enough

keep posting and asking questions,by doing you research at least you will know waht you are letting yourself in for,that car is going to be crazy fast when you finish it

cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Your right I certainly don't have an unlimited supply of money and yes always  looking for a bargin I would be no good a bussiness if I didn't lol . I think Pauter is the way forward for me as it cast no dought in my mind if it will work or take the power I'm targeting. Not really doing anything ground breaking but at the end of the day I never was for one I wasn't going to build the engine or have anything amazing to offer in the engine dept so tried and tested stuff I think

Cheers andy

[richie]

Cool so thats it then,no changing your mind

My last peice of advice would be to get someone familiar with pauter engines to build it,maybe a complete long block from pauter? or VW paradise,sorry Paradise motorsports as there will be little things that you dont need to learn the hard way about how it goes together

So back to the original subject, 911 style shroud with alternator for cooling? or do you have something else in mind to cool it now?one thing I did think of is there are plenty of people running them out in the dunes with cooling on that work so it can be done

cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Lol the emails in to pauter for a long block desision made

[richie]

Lol the emails in to pauter for a long block desision made

Very sensible move

Have you decided what size to get?


cheers richie

[Andy Sykes]

Now its going Pauter maybe 3.5l but we will see what prices are on that lol

[Jyrki]

I had a 3444cc Pauter in a street car for two seasons, with type 1 cooling. On gasoline it ran a little hot, but on E85 the heads never went above 120C, even with the ~1:1 ratio of the pulleys. The pulleys were made by locally, as was the adapter between the case and the alternator stand. Fan shroud was cut a little to fit, with home-made ugly cylinder tins. Pretty stealth?

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Jyrki

[Andy Sykes]

That's ace very stealth looking I like it

Cheers andy

[Airspeed]

Jyki, very stealth looking indeed!
Why didn't you keep it?

[Martin]

I had a 3444cc Pauter in a street car for two seasons, with type 1 cooling. On gasoline it ran a little hot, but on E85 the heads never went above 120C, even with the ~1:1 ratio of the pulleys. The pulleys were made by locally, as was the adapter between the case and the alternator stand. Fan shroud was cut a little to fit, with home-made ugly cylinder tins. Pretty stealth?

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Jyrki

That Rocks!