will the EU outlaw modified cars?

[goose]

please read the link
as i read it and have had it explained
every car would have to pass its MOT/type testing in the condition it left the factory

no twin carbs no alloy wheels etc

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

hope i have got it wrong

Goose

[tonybone]

If this ever came into force I think there would be
A huge blockade of modified , and semi modified
cars in central London!
I for one would join in and encourage all to do so.

I'm wondering how many uk car clubs are aware of this ??

Tony

[andy198712]

its only a proposal

[goose]

It is classed as a proposal
However if you read through all the small print and other stuff
All the points have been proposed before so WILL NOT BE DEBATED again
So if the euro crats tick the boxes it's law


Goose

[Rocket Ron]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it seems to suggest that if you have a standard 30 + car then you do not have to have it tested, if you have modified the car it need to be tested to ensure the modifications are to mot standard.

I don't think it says that the car will be illegal to drive just that it needs testing for each modification. This similar to TUV testing in Germany i think ?

As the government are dropping mot tests for pre 60 cars in November I think its safe to say this new legislation is on its way.

[Neil Davies]

I've read it a bit different to you I think Ron! I read it as if its over thirty and stock then you're fine, if its over thirty and modified then it's off for a BIVA!
There is a big discussion over on www.rodsnsods.co.UK/forum/topic - worth a read, especially as there are only six weeks to get this regulation turned down.
It is coming. We need to make sure that it doesn't destroy our way of life.

[beatnik beetle]

There is a lot of debate amongst the car forums about these new regulations..personally I think some of it is a bit "sensationalist"...BUT, there have been some really scary "ideas" coming out of the EU about regulating cars..A.C.E saw a proposal last year that ALL cars on the road in Europe would have to have E marked glass...ok bad enough if you have a Bug..imagine if you had a 57 Chevy and had to replace the glass?..some of the proposals are ridiculous...personally we all need to be aware of what is going on.... trust me..this is the thin edge of the wedge ( at least in the uk)..all of this no MOT's for pre 59 cars is going to bite us on the ass in the end...

A.C.E have put up a down - loadable form for folks to send to their Mp's and Mep's..download it..sign it and send it..don't bury your heads in the sand folk's..I know Keith has been on the case with making people aware and I have been spreading the word through FB...honestly..don't think "it will never happen"..as it is , and it will..

[andy198712]

but surely all our mods are safe anyway? i cant think of any mod to make something faster properly, that wont pass MOT surely?

i can see things like slammed cars and air ride being a bit iffy but...?

MOT testers dont actually drive your car anyway

[j-f]

We already have this kind of laws here in Belgium.
If you lower your car,for example,  it has to pass a special test to check alignment etc. You also have to have a paper from the manufacturer that the parts you use are intended for your kind of car. Oh, and you have to show the bill that all parts had been mounted by a shop or a garage...
I had a custom exhaust on my new beetle, professionally made in stainless steel etc. As I didn't have a certification for it, I had to remove it and put back a stock one. Cool...

I don't understand why they do that. As long as the car are safe and well built why ban them and prevent us to live our passion? Since the dawn of time, people express themselves by drawning, painting,sports, musics etc. Why couldn't we express our way of living by building our dream cars? Because it looks dangerous to some people? They'd better closed and banned all kind of sports events because people can injury themselves or others, or ban alcohol and cigarettes. It's not ecological? They also should ban people to go on holidays because it's a waste of energy.

[Andy]

One thing to note if you do write to your MP or MEP, is write your own letter, if you just copy and paste the guide letter it will probably get deleted as spam.

It seems as we modify classic vehicles we are stuck in no mans land, the stock purists seem to be pushing their agenda that only standard cars are to be treated as historic. The BIVA test looks to be designed for Kit cars and takes no account of how a classic car was originally constructed, eg an early bug would not be allowed to keep the fuel filler under the bonnet, a split bus would fail because of it not having a collapsable steering column.

Legislation is already creeping in, I believe an MOT tester can fail your car if you have a non standard exhaust or if it is excessively noisy, most 'Turbo' boxes, regularly used on Cal Lookers, are pretty loud. It is up to their discretion at the moment.

[tonybone]

Not only will this kill our fun and passion but
This would put 100"s of business"s " out of business" ! From the small Garages to the custom and
Restoration guys! Along with the parts suppliers locally and over seas.

What can we do and let's get everyone involved !

[Fastbrit]

Basically, the biggest problem is that the text of the new proposal (and has been pointed out, this is not to mean it's open to debate – it's awaiting ratification by all member states of the EU) states that cars can only be fixed using OEM spares to the exact specification as would have been fitted when the vehicle was first constructed. The stupidity of this is made clear when you take that as having to fit only cross-ply tyres to your early Beetle, only fit VW-supplied engine parts (try that with your Split-window...), etc – if you don't, it is then no longer deemed to be a historic vehicle and therefore subject to more stringent testing etc.

At the moment, to a degree, all EU states have their own system of what is deemed to be historic, or roadworthy etc. We in the UK have had it relatively easy in the past, but the introduction of the SVA and IVA system hints at what lies ahead. That will be the thin end of the wedge for as long as we remain part of the EU. Without getting into the politics of that, be aware that the aim of the EU is to have universal laws that apply to all member states equally. Don't like that idea? Write to your MEP now. Make them work for their money...

Do you think the EU really cares about the people employed in the aftermarket industry? Of course not – after all, if they lose their jobs they could get new ones working for the bureaucracy that's going to be necessary to sort all this out. And pity your poor local MOT garage – they will have to purchase new testing equipment. My local MOT garage here in town will love that... Again, the ultimate aim I am sure will be to have centralised testing stations, run by VOSA. No friendly and helpful MOT guy who loves your old Beetle because he used to have one years ago...

Read through that document (see if on the www.the-ace.org website) again and write a well-worded, balanced letter to your MEP and your local MP. Don't think this can't happen. I remember back in the 1970s the campaigns to stave off new laws to prevent us building hot rods. The campaign worked in part – and the new laws resurfaced as the SVA test many years later. It won't go away.

[Nico86]

We already have this kind of laws here in Belgium.
If you lower your car,for example,  it has to pass a special test to check alignment etc. You also have to have a paper from the manufacturer that the parts you use are intended for your kind of car. Oh, and you have to show the bill that all parts had been mounted by a shop or a garage...
I had a custom exhaust on my new beetle, professionally made in stainless steel etc. As I didn't have a certification for it, I had to remove it and put back a stock one. Cool...

I don't understand why they do that. As long as the car are safe and well built why ban them and prevent us to live our passion? Since the dawn of time, people express themselves by drawning, painting,sports, musics etc. Why couldn't we express our way of living by building our dream cars? Because it looks dangerous to some people? They'd better closed and banned all kind of sports events because people can injury themselves or others, or ban alcohol and cigarettes. It's not ecological? They also should ban people to go on holidays because it's a waste of energy.

Here in France it's quite the same. It is supposed that you have absolutely no rights to put any parts on the car that is not OEM, and all the parts have to come from the manufacturer. Which means no alloy wheels (even if they are the exact same size as stock wheels), no steering-wheels and shifters replacement, even a stupid window seal or rubber would have to come from VW and to be an OEM part. Windows glasses would have to be stamped by VW too, etc, etc... I'm even sure putting a tacho or oil temp/pressure gauges is not good. Though if the car is safe, clever, and have a rather "stock appearence" you will not have any problems with the MOT/technical inspection of the car. Every old and classic cars are like this, every rally cars that are supposed to be road legal with license plates and everything are like this.
I was annoyed a few years ago because I put US tail-light lenses (red turn signal) and in France you have to have orange turn signal and light lenses stamped with european (E) marks. And also because license plated were mounted with bolts instead of rivet.

On another note, it is funny to know that european deputies and politics have only this to do, while the European Union is falling apart economically...  

[Nico86]

They'd better closed and banned all kind of sports events because people can injury themselves or others, or ban alcohol and cigarettes. It's not ecological? They also should ban people to go on holidays because it's a waste of energy.

And I completely agree! Where I live there is a little race track where they do ice racing in winter and karting races in summer. It has to close down this summer because they say "it wasn't respecting new safety rules and standards."

This track has been oppened in the '60s, never someone was killed, never. Since years and years never someone was injured due to a crash on the track. But they are annoying the race track staff.

And on the other hand here people are doing climbing, canyoning, rafting, alpinism, skiing, snowboarding etc, etc... And every year there are thousands and thousands of people injured, and hundreds of people die because of these dangerous activities!!! And no one says anything because it is "hype" to do these activities, because it is supposed to be "ecological" (oh yeah that's very ecological, peopla are stupid and they are ruining the mountains and rivers everywhere they go!!! And I guess people go in holidays with bicycles too or walk their way all the time???) and of course, because it brings a lot of money. They even try to hide the accidents and bad events because they don't want to scare tourists.

That's it, I am pissed and angry now  

[rick m]

This is what happens when there is too much government.  "Governments that have the power to give you everything can also take away everything."  Heck, we have an American president that wants to tell us what to eat, who to share our hard earned incomes with, and whether we have the right to live or die in his new healthcare plan.  Bureaucrats will determine if you are approved for a medical procedure instead of you and your doctor.

This is just history repeating itself. Everyone wants everything provided by their governments. In the end, you end up with nothing with a ruling class that has everything at the expense of everyone else.  Give us a couple more decades in America and we will be living back in the King and Serfdom days if KING OBAMA has his way.  When will people learn from history?

Government workers could careless about the private sector as long as they are all getting their guarantees, pensions, and all the other freebies that overtaxation provides.

RM

[karl h]

whatever happened to "no politics"?

[j-f]

In a few years, we all will have to wear the same clothes (to avoid social discrimination), eating what we have been told to eat and doing what we have been told to do...

Cool...

[andy198712]

In a few years, we all will have to wear the same clothes (to avoid social discrimination), eating what we have been told to eat and doing what we have been told to do...

Cool...

most of that sounds like marriage! 

[rick m]

Sorry...when politics start to affect our freedom of choice...especially the type cars we can drive, I draw the line.  :-)

RM

[JS]

Sorry...when politics start to affect our freedom of choice...especially the type cars we can drive, I draw the line.  :-)

RM

We´re quite used to that in Norway. Can you imagine living in a country where a three year old second hand Corvette cost $145.000? 

[Beetleman]

Department for Transport statement:

"This document [the tendered EU Roadworthiness Package'] is a proposal rather than final legislation. As such, all Member States will have the opportunity to negotiate the final legislation and everything within the current document may be subject to change.

The Department has sought views on the proposals from the industry. We will be analysing the proposals to find out what impact they will have on businesses and motorists. We will question rigorously any provisions that imply costs for Government, people or industry and seek to minimise these. We will be taking an active part in the Working Group meetings starting this autumn.

It is still far too early to comment on specifics of the legislation as a number of the proposals could be changed or dropped."

[tonybone]

Hi Guys.

I'm quite surprised this topic did not draw more attention. ( only 19 replies ). ( unless you all have done something already)?
This will effect the whole custom car scene in the UK if this goes through. !
That means it will effect every Beetle, Type 2 and 3 and Ghia's plus all the other brands such as the old British cars, the mini scene, fast fords, BMW's and any other Non standard car on the road.
What ever happened to the British racing history?? where all races were on public roads back then! and so many beautiful cars were conceived. Does this not count for anything>??

One area that will basically disappear over night will be the magazines that we all read.... Volksworld, VW Ultra, fast ford, Street machine, Mini world, etc etc and 100's of others.
What are these Mags doing about this? would it also be a good idea for these mags to get involved and petition as well on the scenes behalf. ??

See the Link to the Governments E Petition in Neil Davies Post above.. Click on this and it will take you to the e petition. There are over 3000 signatures already and we need more. loads more!!!

Ive just been on there and signed. !!!

Keep posting on this thread once you have signed so we can keep this thread active and all of those guys out there aware.

Doing my bit anyway !!

[j-f]

Back in late 2010, several US publications did a front cover stating "Can they outlaw Hot rodding". With a campaign to protect the hobby of old/modified cars against proposal of laws that will castrate car hobby and car culture.
They are a bit more lucky than us as they have associations like SEMA that regroups most of aftermarket parts manufacturers. It has more weight than a association of citizens which will receive the usual answer "we take your opinion into consideration". Translate it by :"If you don't like it, you can lump it.".

Things are different in EU. Car hobby don't have the same image (at least over here in Belgium), modifying a car is seen as dangerous and the behavior of some people driving "tuning" car doesn't help. I talked yesterday with a technical inspector and ask him about the changes for classic car and old timer. He answers me that as long as the vehicle is stock, you will be fine...

Read more here;
http://www.hotrod.com/feature_stories/hrdp_1012_can_they_outlaw_hot_rodding/viewall.html

[Stripped66]

Just remember folks, your typical politicians are too stupid to come up with legislation like this on their own. This legislation was sponsored and pushed by the lobbyists for the auto manufacturers. Old cars using aftermarket parts make the OE's zero profit.

[Jon]

So we will be outlaws....  I seem to have read "not for street &highway use on some of my parts"... but good luck to us all!

[Beetleman]

Department for Transport statement:

"This document [the tendered EU Roadworthiness Package'] is a proposal rather than final legislation. As such, all Member States will have the opportunity to negotiate the final legislation and everything within the current document may be subject to change.

The Department has sought views on the proposals from the industry. We will be analysing the proposals to find out what impact they will have on businesses and motorists. We will question rigorously any provisions that imply costs for Government, people or industry and seek to minimise these. We will be taking an active part in the Working Group meetings starting this autumn.

It is still far too early to comment on specifics of the legislation as a number of the proposals could be changed or dropped."

The original consultations received over 9,500 replies. Signing an e-petition and addressing it to our Parliament is a waste of time as this is a proposal for an EU Directive, not domestic legislation and our Parliament does not deal with EU Directives, you need to contact your MEP for that. The time to get a petition together is when/if the Directive is transposed in to domestic law, it may be that our current legislation will fulfill the requirements of the proposal and as such nothing will change. On the other hand in may not, in that case, as we are bound by another EU Directive (the Public Participation Directive) the Government has to consult with all parties. Then is the time to forward a credible response.

[Shane Noone]

This story has been taken up now by one of the UK's established respected tabloids as per the link below,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199311/Millions-modified-classic-cars-banned-roads-meddling-European-Union-try-shake-MOT-rules.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Hope you guys have taken the time to sign the e-petitions that have been doing the rounds too to stop these meddling EU bureacrats !!