Anti friction coatings

[andy198712]

Does anyone know where I can buy anti friction coatings in the UK?

Such as DFL-1 ect, bake on coatings.

Cheers

Andy

[andy198712]

judging by the views, alot of people are interested in coatings, so here is a very interesting review including dyno tests with and without coatings.

some very interesting infomation on thermal coatings too


http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0612_engine_coatings/viewall.html

[andy198712]

i test prepped a set of cam bearings today



these are blasted with a fine grit (100-120) to key the surface in preparation for coating and baking.

top are plain, bottom are blasted, they still feel smooth just look matte.

i'm choosing between 3 coatings now, Everlube's Everslik 1301, Molykote's 7409 and Techlines DFL-1.....


i plan on coating the bearings, valve springs (should see a dop in oil temp) drysump pump, rockers, lash caps, cam gears, and a few other bits and bobs.

i'm unsure if i'll do my cam due to going tool steel lifters.....

cheers

[dragvw2180]

Andy I have to ask about bearing clearance, how much of a build up does the coating have, do you preset your clearances w/out coatings  before you coat them or what ?  I have never used coated bearings , thats why I am asking stupid questions , but I am interested.  I did have some componants ceramic coated and I was not very impressed with its durability ( JET HOT ) . After a few passes the internal coating on my headers was gone which meant it all went through my turbo and the exterior coating dulled to a flat grey color the first foot out of the heads  . Pic of before running the engine,


 My new engine has no coatings and I believe it actually runs cooler , this past weekend at Darlington SC  I drove my car back to the pits with no cooling, that is about a half mile round trip but does not look as PURDY as the last engine. When you get your engine back together I would appreciate any feedback you might have.  Mike McCarthy

[andy198712]

Hi Mike.

i'm new to this too, just spent a bit of time researching... as you do!

you burnish the coating on bearings, pre burnishing the coating is 0.01mm thick. so its really not an issue but you burnish that down so you get a thickness of a couple microns if needed (o.oo2-3mm)

so from what i gather, you setup bearing clearance as normal.


sounds pretty naff about the headers, i'd be pretty niffed at that too!
cant really comment on that as i have not read into thermal barriers a whole lot yet, i was thinking i'd do piston tops, chamber and valve faces and exhaust port(choosing my coating carfuly it would seem). it seems partly the issue that the really good coatings dont look nice, so companies offer the ones that look nicer but arent as good. then again a turbo exhaust gets pretty hot! but still!
i have read that cheaper coatings discolour earlier, but all coatings will discolour at a certain point.

part of the reason i'm doing this my self is i know how much companies charge to coat parts. and the other reason is enjoying doing it my self.
i'll keep the thread updated with my application and progress

[andy198712]

Well its been a while!

i've been in contact with CamCoat in the UK, they have been very helpful and sent me out a information booklet of all there coatings and also what and how to apply and what to use for the "diy coater" which i thought was very nice! alot of companies dont want to tell you how as they would rather they coated it for you and you pay ect..... fair enough!

Any way.

From reading through it, i think i shall use there DFL-1 coating which is the anti friction coating for bearings and any other friction surface in the engine, also there thermal barrier coating which is shall do the piston tops, combustion chambers, valve faces and exhaust port, and finally there buff on friction reducing coating for barrels and lifters which is designed for barrels and reduces friction and increases ring seal..... cant go wrong!!

I'll find out a quote for those and come payday hopefully get my order in, watch this space


the DFL coating i dont exspect much or any power gains, although frictional loss with be reduced.

he thermal barrier i do expect power gains from, all be it small ones.

and the barrel coating i just expect less blow by and better life.

i'm not fooling my self thinking it will be a day and night change to the engine like bolting on a turbo ect, its more to aid all my time spent balancing and blueprinting to make a smooth, efficient, long lasting strong engine....

[andy198712]

well, ordered up some DFL.... bit of a kick in the balls when it costs $35 in the states for 250ml and here to my door was £67 for the same amount, 3 times the cost maybe? but hey ho!

blasted some parts all ready to go, bathed in acetone just waiting on a spray gun to arrive to spray with, ordered one with a 0.8mm nozzle as they surguesst less then 1mm nozzle for the coatings



i was planning on coating bears and selling them to recoupe some costs of the equipment but its hard to see how much of a profit if any i would make, when you factor in blast media, acetone, power for the compressor and parts cooker ect let alone the coatings, the gears seems to be more time consuming and tricky, the cam and rod bearings were easier to blast.....

[andy198712]

Well, did some test cam bearings today and had a little bit of flaking, think this was due to being too sparse on the grit blasting,
I pre heated all the parts to about 50-60 degrees and it went on real nice!
Done the rest of my parts now.... Pics to follow!

[mr horsepower]

I like the PREDATOR !!!

Andy I have to ask about bearing clearance, how much of a build up does the coating have, do you preset your clearances w/out coatings  before you coat them or what ?  I have never used coated bearings , thats why I am asking stupid questions , but I am interested.  I did have some componants ceramic coated and I was not very impressed with its durability ( JET HOT ) . After a few passes the internal coating on my headers was gone which meant it all went through my turbo and the exterior coating dulled to a flat grey color the first foot out of the heads  . Pic of before running the engine,


 My new engine has no coatings and I believe it actually runs cooler , this past weekend at Darlington SC  I drove my car back to the pits with no cooling, that is about a half mile round trip but does not look as PURDY as the last engine. When you get your engine back together I would appreciate any feedback you might have.  Mike McCarthy

[andy198712]

Like to see that under a closed decklid lol

Coated my parts today in DFL-1















Completely internally coated and you'd never know!!


All lightly oiled and wrapped up till fitting time!

[dragvw2180]

Hahhaha   Was never intended for that , here is a vid of that engine in my car. We were trying to sort the chassis out,



 p.s. I am the fat rascal in the white tee shirt, and yes I do fit in there.  Hahhahaha   Mike McCarthy

[richie]

Andy

just out interest did you fit those dual thrust cam bearings to the cam before coating? they usually need some sanding to get them to fit on the thrust area,not sure if you did that already?

Like the idea and finish on those parts though
Might get some of the coating added to our next shipment from USA to try

cheers richie

[andy198712]

Andy

just out interest did you fit those dual thrust cam bearings to the cam before coating? they usually need some sanding to get them to fit on the thrust area,not sure if you did that already?

Like the idea and finish on those parts though
Might get some of the coating added to our next shipment from USA to try

cheers richie

Doh!!  oh well! we shall see when i try and fit it, no trouble to re coat the parts anyway, but good call!

[andy198712]

Hahhaha   Was never intended for that , here is a vid of that engine in my car. We were trying to sort the chassis out,



 p.s. I am the fat rascal in the white tee shirt, and yes I do fit in there.  Hahhahaha   Mike McCarthy

goes alright doesnt it!!

[dragvw2180]

 Thanks Andy, it did ok. It took awhile ( video is 4 yrs old)  to sort everything out chassis wise .  I Have not been using double thrust cam bearings, do not think they are needed with straight cut gears since there is VERY little thrust problems  with them. I will be waiting to read how well the coatings work for you and think they are something I need to look at also. Mike McCarthy

[andy198712]

Thanks Andy, it did ok. It took awhile ( video is 4 yrs old)  to sort everything out chassis wise .  I Have not been using double thrust cam bearings, do not think they are needed with straight cut gears since there is VERY little thrust problems  with them. I will be waiting to read how well the coatings work for you and think they are something I need to look at also. Mike McCarthy

cheers for the recent video too

i too have had that same thought and like you see no reason...... i just went with the "because they said" 

i think they cant harm, and thermal barriers are proven to give BHP gains, but would help keep the head temps down so would thermal dispersant coatings.... which could be good for a drag car?

[dragvw2180]

 It was nice talking with you Andy and I am happy you enjoyed the vid.  I am going to try to educate myself on all the thermal and friction coatings , thanks for the information. Mike McCarthy

[andy198712]

It was nice talking with you Andy and I am happy you enjoyed the vid.  I am going to try to educate myself on all the thermal and friction coatings , thanks for the information. Mike McCarthy

no worries!

one tip i got from the manufactures literature was that coating one part, say the bearings will reduce friction alot, coating the other part ie the crankshaft AS WELL, will only aid in reducing friction very slightly if at all BUT it will increase part life ALOT....





Cheers

[andy198712]

Dabbled some more


These came out really nice!



Just lash caps to do when I buy them and may redo my pistons when I get those too as I hear some are really poorly coated or just stuck on