fk87 advice for a newbie.

[dannyboy]

lmao 3 years ago all i wanted was a 13.99 ..its a drug  i love ireland spent a fair few months surfing the west coast never noticed a drag strip though 

[56 luftpumpe]

 

[benlawrence]

for those who commented on the clutch, a new "Daiken" disk arrived this week, made by Exedy in its "Exedy" packaging, it looks like it should, the old clutch disk came in a brown box, with "made in taiwan" on the side and a sticker of an american eagle on it, i would say Ritchie was 110% on the money, we had a spurious knock off copy, live and learn. 

[dannyboy]

thats good news bring on next season 

[benlawrence]

yep cant wait, just ordering parts for my new motor (wedgeports 86c etc) and scored some ida's, although i wasnt bothered about going the ida route they were a killer deal so i couldnt pass them up gennie italian too.  thats the first time i will have ever owned a set  

[richie]

Ben

glad you got it figured out ok now, we tried those brown box " exactly the same as the real daikens" a few years ago, they were £8 each,its true you get what you pay for, I spent more time pulling engines and swapping the clutch discs out than we saved in money,never did break the gearboxes though with one of the copies

cheers richie

[dannyboy]

yep cant wait, just ordering parts for my new motor (wedgeports 86c etc) and scored some ida's, although i wasnt bothered about going the ida route they were a killer deal so i couldnt pass them up gennie italian too.  thats the first time i will have ever owned a set  

all you need to do now is sell them and go efi

[benlawrence]

yep ritchie, i dont think somehow i would have minded at 8 quid a pop, it was a lot more than that, anyway, its done, dusted and filed under expereince, danny, i considered efi, my mates motor with jenveys and emerald ecu and green injectors still comes in way more than the £560 i just bought the ida's for, if i was paying 1k for a pair, i could justify igoing efi  but at this juncture, i cant, sadly i am still on a budget.

Can anyone chime in on the AA piston/cylinders?

The set that have been used on the efi motor were the cheap 94's with hypertuteric (sp) pistons, they have seen above and beyond 7k rpm all year infact have seen 8k rpm, i was looking to buy the forged slippers but the barrels for these are currently out of stock, i dont mind honing another set to suit as i can get the slipper pistons no problem but would like to know peoples real world opinions on the current AA 94 stroker standards, our experience says they are good without a failure this year and seeing much higher rpms than the 6500 rpm that ive read is their safe limit?

[dannyboy]

560 for idas id be well happy with that 

[Greg G]

I have had good luck using AA forged pistons. We often take the rpms to the 8,000 rpm limiter with a turbo motor. We have run them up to 8,500 rpm going through the traps on N2o.

I have the cylinders honed to .0055 over the skirt of the pistons. I also take some wet sand paper and feather the edge of the coating on the skirts of the pistons. I have has them start to roll up and take up the skirt clearnace. I don't know why this happened, but since it did, I take a little off so there is no way it sould happen again.

this is my son Jacob doing a high gear burn out in his street car with AA piston and cylinders in it. The 2232 also has a off the shelf FK-87.

[Metalflakedave]

Interesting to see a slight stumble in the transition clearly defined on the torque curve. I bet you wouldn't even notice that on the street though.

That torque dip is a common characteristic. The better the heads and intake system (high flow, good airspeed), the more pronounced it is. With a milder engine (smaller valves and ports, less bhp & torque per litre), the dip disappears and you have a smoother torque curve across the rpm range. As peak torque per litre increases, the torque dip appears - usually between 3000rpm and 4000rpm. It's exact position in the rpm range is influenced by induction and exhaust tuned lengths. In the deepest section of the trough, AFR goes over rich. On a carburetted engine there's little you can do. With mappable EFI you can dial out the richness and pull up the curve. It doesn't always eliminate the dip completely but will flatten it out.

What John says here really rings true when I look at my own recent dyno figures and when I think back to what Daz Chandler and John Sleath said to me. I have a very similar torque dip. Not bothered about it at all as it's not problem but Daz said to me at the time, if I'd have had lesser spec heads it would have been less pronounced. I run Ultra Wedge ports with Ti valves etc on an 2276 with 86B. Plenty of scope for an 86C later on. So over headed if you like. Mine produces 161 FWBHP on dyno dynamics with fan belt on, pretty much from 5750 to 6900rpm. As such my torqe per litre is a litlle lower but the dip is between 3500 and 4500. John Sleath said the same that with the IDAs the AFR goes rich but then clears up - not a lot we can do so best to leave it how it is.

Hi Ben,

Just reading your thread. So you initially made 146 bhp on the 44 carbs with 36 vents. Then switched to 45MM throttle bodies and gained 15 bhp so that takes you to 161 bhp. You already know the dyno dynamins chassis dyno is tight so let's add 18 bhp to compare more closely with John's stuska dyno figures which takes us to  179 bhp.....now we are starting to get in the range of where most motors with a spec like yours fall, ie 180 - 200 bhp at the flywheel no cooling. If your figures from the chassis dyno are flywheel estimated it is at least comparing like for like. Also if you ran with your fanbelt aka cooling in place then you can normally add another 15 bhp at least to your total figure giving around 194 bhp. This is bang on the money my friend for your motor spec ! 

Cheers

Shane.

I can understand this way of thinking too, but it does get a bit speculative for me. Me and Ben have talked about my figures as they are on a Dyno Dynamics too. Lets take my figures. I got 161 bhp at the flywheel with belt on. Add 18 to that gives 179 the same as the above figures. Add another 15hp to that with the belt off and that too gives me 194.... no one would believe me if I quoted those figures with an 86B. 

I agree about the 15hp for the fan belt belt though. Halving the correction figure between dynos to 9bhp would give mine 170, plus 15 for taking off the cooling  would be 185. Still high for an 86B.

[benlawrence]

dave weve seen similar horsepower (178.9) 160 tq on the nose on these rollers with a 2276 which allegedly has an fk8 (similar to the 86b) in it, i must grab the graph off the boys sometime but i remember it pulled HARD all the way to 6k+ before it developed a missfire, we never had time to re dyno it after we sorted the misfire but i would have liked to have seen where power started to dip i remember thinking it had more cam in it than was suggested but could be wrong, this was on ( i think ) steve tims heads. It was a proper stomper though.

Weve pretty much called it a day on that engine, the heads are destined for other things, we are scouring the parts bin and putting together a stroker motor with those heads that we are going to loan to an irish vw club (Eircooled) so they can come out and have some fun with us next year, a few of the guys have picked the ball up and are sorting a car for us to throw the engine in, it should make for a good start to get these guys out racing, all part of the fun

Greg G, thanks for your post, looks like your having a whole lot of fun with the car ;-)

[Metalflakedave]

dave weve seen similar horsepower (178.9) 160 tq on the nose on these rollers with a 2276 which allegedly has an fk8 (similar to the 86b) in it, i must grab the graph off the boys sometime but i remember it pulled HARD all the way to 6k+ before it developed a missfire, we never had time to re dyno it after we sorted the misfire but i would have liked to have seen where power started to dip i remember thinking it had more cam in it than was suggested but could be wrong, this was on ( i think ) steve tims heads. It was a proper stomper though.

That was a proper stomper if it ran those numbers on a DD dyno.

As you can see mine goes past 6500 before it tails off, just with a bit less HP