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In Da Werks
my 56, street and a bit of strip.
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Topic: my 56, street and a bit of strip. (Read 21738 times)
benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #30 on:
June 16, 2013, 00:37:14 am »
Quote from: gizago on June 15, 2013, 23:10:00 pm
I thought IDA's liked fuel pressure about 3.5 PSI??
They love 1psi
ive run idfs with 6 psi, never had a problem, the ida's havn't shown any problems with more than suggested, in fact every motor ive run on idf's or indeed the ida's have not been sensitive to more than the "Known" fuel pressure, the only carbs that ive ever experienced problems with too much pressure has always been soiex/kadrons.
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Shane Noone
Sr. Member
Posts: 267
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #31 on:
June 16, 2013, 11:26:34 am »
Quote from: benlawrence on June 15, 2013, 13:38:07 pm
Hi Shane, fuel pressure was set at 5psi @ idle, it dropped as soon as the motor comes on cam, by 6k its at 1psi and afr's are leaning out, i wound it up to 7psi just to see if the gauge was iffy same result, could be something as simple as a bad earth or kink in a fuel line, itll be a simple fix im sure, Im using the Facet red top "works" pump (regulated),Flow rate of 35 gallons per hour with a delivery pressure of 6.5-7.25 Psi. For competition use up to 240 BHP. So the pump should be more than up to the job, i only have a small pinhole breather in the neck of my tank so i ran it without the cap to see if the tank was vacuuming, same result but at least it ticks an item off the check list.
[/quote
Ben, I have been running same pump as you regulated through a Filter King with gauge. My tank is stock Oval with no breather except cap ? I was concerened same a syou about vaccuming but so evidence of this whilst on rolling road last Summer. I have since added a 1/2" K+N style breather to tank ( just to help if needed ). I wanted to maintain the fuel pressure at WOT as the motor was tested on dyno when originally built. This was at 2.9 - 3.1 psi. I had my pressure regulator set at 3 psi idle and I was able to watch the gauge on the dyno drop to 2 psi on WOT. I adjusted it up to 4psi and saw it drop to around 3 at WOT. I'm not too sure how accurate these gauges are as the original one started fluctuating intermittently so I replaced it and the new one has been constant so far......
With the new motor build I have adjusted the gauge down to around 3.2 psi idle and it holds this to 3000 rpm but that is still on the idles. The motor is due to go to the dyno soon so I will be able to monitor WOT readings again and adjust if needed. I was concerened 4 psi at idle was too much pressure and the carbs would bleed....
I am running a 5/16" - 8mm bore fuel line from tank to regulator. It should be enough but I think many would prefer to run with 3/8 or 1/2" bore...
Keep us posted mate
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #32 on:
June 16, 2013, 20:23:11 pm »
Shane Im running 8mm i.d hardline to the rear, pump below the tank etc, funnily enough with my old motor, on first install i remember taking it up the a127 and floored it in 4th and the thing just died until i let my foot off, the tank was vacuuming and after some advice from my old man and his days of motorbikes and funnily enough Ritchie Webb too ( Although he suggested the "proper" way to do it, i drilled a pinhole in the filler neck, that sorted it without having to mess about with fittings etc, ok not the safest way but it did me all those years lol. I will get back to it in the next week or so, first fathers day today so ive had a well earned break from the car and a day with my girls
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #33 on:
August 29, 2013, 20:03:33 pm »
Small update, i ran a new pb with the car last weekend, and im interested to know your thoughts.
im running a bone stock trans with 4.12 R&P and stock axles, my 60 ft was 1.9 on my pb, but they normally average around 2 sec. obviously im ringing its neck, the tacho reads over 8000 through the line in 3rd, not that im bothered by this.
My question is, being realistic how much quicker over the 1/4 would the car be with a built trans and slicks? and what added problems do these upgrades bring, i have had two seasons of running, super consistent and zero breakages, literally check the valve clearances, fresh fuel drop the van radials down to 18psi and away i go, if putting a built trans and slicks makes it a hard launching car that breaks, then im not interested, maybe not go the slicks route, i would be happy if the car clicked 12.5's all day long consistently.
«
Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 20:05:06 pm by benlawrence
»
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Shane Noone
Sr. Member
Posts: 267
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #34 on:
August 29, 2013, 22:28:50 pm »
Hi Ben, firstly congrats on your new PB !! I heard you ran 12.4@111mph ?? Was that ET with no fan belt mate ?? That is a fantastic time with a 1.9 60ft on radials let alone a stock ratio box. I would have thought blasting through the traps at 8k with your motor spec would be way past peak power having an idea of your motor spec ( fairly typical 190-200 fwbhp without belt )
For what it's worth I always thought having a close ratio 3rd and 4th could knock half a second off stock box times and the same again with slicks so potentially one full second quicker, ie 11.4 in your case. I am sure there is way more science to it than simple 2+2 math though !!
Only examples I can give you are based on my own experiences. With my old blue 63, I ran with radials but a little more sporty than van tires ( yokkies ro32's ) at 18 psi - with a 1.58 / 1.21 / 4.12 trans and my 200 bhp ( fwbhp without belt ) JMR 2276, I would run consistent 12.7 - 12.8 at around 104 - 105 mph with fanbelt ( removed the belt for one pass and ran 12.5@106 ) my 60ft's were always around 1.8-1.9
Onto current 2332 motor making maybe an extra 20 bhp ( fwbhp without belt ) same ratio 3rd and 4th as before but using DOT's now - my typical 60ft's are in the 1.6-1.7 zone with pressures anywhere between 14 - 17 psi ( have not seen consistent reductions in ET going down from 18psi to 14psi just less tramping with lower ) I did manage a 1.59 once. My best ET'S have been around 12.2 and best mph 111 crossing line in 4th around 7k with the fanbelt in place. Have not tried without. Yet.
Hope this info is of some use ??
Cheers, Shane.
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #35 on:
August 29, 2013, 23:14:20 pm »
Hi Shane thanks for the info, yes im waaay past peak power, but that shift to fourth is completely pointless, although its not making power im not worried about the rpm its pulling, theres no sign of float etc and if it goes bang then hey!!! ive only myself to blame, yes it ran 12.4 @111mph the engine is making 185 flywheel, im not concerned about dipping into the 11's, but im thinking more along the lines of a trans combo that will make use of the engines peak power in all gears and also improve my 60fts, my last 3 or 4 runs have all been 2.2 60ft and clicked 12.8s, so consistently it will run 12.8s all day long if the gearbox were to hold up. food for thought Shane, it can wait till next year if the funds are there, otherwise its another season on a £50 gearbox
oh and yes Shane belt off.
If you are on facebook, this may work for you.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=573845209345551&set=vb.118164291689879&type=2&theater
«
Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 10:53:54 am by benlawrence
»
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Taylor
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #36 on:
August 29, 2013, 23:40:38 pm »
It really depends on what you want to do with the car. 111 mph should net you around 11.70-80 with gears and slicks. But if you have the power to run 12.40 with stock gears, building a beefed up trans with those same stock gears will get you 12.0s and you can still drive it around. Since you, like me have a new baby and money is tight, that's what I would do. More fun, less money.
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #37 on:
September 23, 2013, 12:56:35 pm »
Well thats my season over, and to be fair im extremely happy with my progress.
I ran on saturday of this weekend and only mangaged two runs both with missfires, first was a 13 flat with a missfire top end so i just got off the throttle and coasted it, 2nd run was a 12.8 with a misfire pretty much through 2 and 3rd then at the top end losing all full throttle power, i nursed it back to the pits and had a look at the jets and ignition, but nothing was blocked in the carbs and i suspected a fuel pressure issue. Went out for one more run and it died in 1st gear so i pulled it over and limped back to the pit where i parked it for the day. It was actually a really good day, helping a few of the guys tune their engines that weren't running right, those guys all ran p.b's which was great.
I got it home and fired it up to get it off the trailer and it ran clean as a whistle, no problem, so i suspect the coil is on its way out or the fuel pump, not bad to be fair, two seasons racing and only had to park it once.
The car achieved what i wanted, which was a genuine consistent 12 sec, it runs easy 12.6- 12.8's with a soft launch on the stock gearbox so im mega happy. my best was a 12.4 @111mph with a sub 2 sec 60ft.
What next year will bring, i dont know, probably more of the same, consistent and cheap to run i hope, i have no plans to make any changes to the engine, but i would like to do some minor work to improve the chassis setup and add some more safety to the car. Most importantly ive learned a lot and had a ton of fun at the same time.
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AntLockyer
Sr. Member
Posts: 351
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #38 on:
September 23, 2013, 13:15:26 pm »
Well done mate. Beat my best in that car
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12.618 @ 104.87mph
benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #39 on:
September 23, 2013, 21:04:43 pm »
Cheers ant, im actually driving my car, not your dads old one, still a way to go before Dave beats your best time yet, his best is a 12.9 so far, hard to believe we have 2 12 second bugs here in Northern Ireland that have run those times on a track here. Hopefully the first of many.
This was my first run on saturday with a poor start and a slippery mid track and a missfire at towards the end, haha its all stacked against me, that was a 13 zero, i went 12.8 with the missfire and parked it up.
http://www.youtube.com/v/PTjr9llMF1w
This is my best run of the season. 12.49 @111mph.
http://www.youtube.com/v/-OR077VA0Ik
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AntLockyer
Sr. Member
Posts: 351
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #40 on:
September 23, 2013, 21:16:18 pm »
Oh yeah of course, I'm stupid sometimes.
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12.618 @ 104.87mph
benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #41 on:
September 23, 2013, 21:40:41 pm »
Quote from: AntLockyer on September 23, 2013, 21:16:18 pm
Oh yeah of course, I'm stupid sometimes.
Haha, not as bad as me, im pretty stupid most of the time.
Heres your dads old car from saturday, not quite running as quickly as he usually does but itll bring back a few memories.
http://www.youtube.com/v/yX1e4Y3oZTc
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: So i finally got the motor finished!
«
Reply #42 on:
January 28, 2014, 23:22:54 pm »
So i have a little winter progress, if you can call it progress, just garage tinkering is more appropriate.
The engine is out, the gearbox is out and the rear end completely stripped down.
The new gearbox is yet to land here but hopefully will be this week, i bought it from Tom on here, its a bit of a halfway house but i could just about afford it, i know 4th is still going to be a touch on the long side, but beggars cant be chosers and all the other parts inside are real nice.
it has a weddle mainshaft, all weddle gears, superdiff h/d sideplates etc etc and a pair of short race axles, Dave Dinning very kindly went and collected it for me last week to which i am extremely greatful (Thanks Dave
)
The ratios are
3.75 1st
2.25 2nd
1.48 3rd
1.04 4th
on a 3.88 r&p.
I have started to clean up the back end of the car, the wings have never been off in its life by the looks of it, i started one side last night, it has a tough bitumen layer underneath, so i hit it with the heat gun and it peeled off very nicely to reveal a really solid inner wing. Note the factory crayon mark that has transferred to the underseal.
I have a TON of work to do before the new season starts in March, but hopefully i can get enough time to get out into the garage and get stuff done.
No plans to change anything with the engine, i think i will just run it as is this season and see how i get on with the new gearbox.
Plans this next month are.
Clean up all the inner wings, redo the fuel system, add 2 sets of caster shims to the front end, limit the suspension travel on the rear, New gearbox built up and back in the car and sort out the frame horn brace. Then its heading down to my mate Shane at Lawlors Customs for some cutting. This will pain me slightly
, but it has to be done, im going to install some hookeys Hi Pac access panels in the inner wings, i just cannot get those manifolds down tight enough and forget changing plugs so somethings got to give. I will however keep whats cut out.
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Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 23:28:20 pm by benlawrence
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Taylor
Hero Member
Posts: 577
Re: my 56, street and a bit of strip.
«
Reply #43 on:
January 29, 2014, 01:27:33 am »
It took me about 10 years to finally get a system of tightening the manifolds sufficiently. I got pissed one day at the street legal races when a manifold came loose so I went home and fixed it. First make sure your manifolds are flat. I then filed the manifold on the nut side flat. Then I filed the side of the manifold to accommodate a real washer and replaced the nuts with ARP 12 point ones. I use a 1/4" 12 point 10 mm socket and a universal joint attached to a 15" extention and put the manifolds on first. You can really crank the nut down that way and I haven't had a problem ever since. All of those 8mm ID 11mm OD nuts are worthless.
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: my 56, street and a bit of strip.
«
Reply #44 on:
July 02, 2014, 05:49:14 am »
Went for a blast tonight, had a ring round a few friends and it was the general opinion that if youve got a street car you may as well use it on the street
So nice to take a run out with a few folks, makes a nice change, plus the wonderful weather helps.
The car is running pretty good, not much to report, the new gearbox is certainly suited more for the track but not too bad on the street, for cross country blasts its a scream, but on the motorway you really notice the shorter 4th.
I think im pretty much done with the numbers, we were out a few months ago but nothing to report as it was wet, a damp run sugggests with a 1.8 60 the car should go somewhere near a 12 flat, its now in the realms of taking it further away from being a street car and biasing it more towards the track, something i dont really want to get into, my whole deal with the car is it must remain a street car, but as it gets quicker it becomes more uncomfortable, and i like a bit of comfort
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: my 56, street and a bit of strip.
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Reply #45 on:
July 02, 2014, 06:00:07 am »
I also made some side access panels, there are varying items off the shelf, none of which i find truly suitable and easy to either install or use on regular basis with about a million screws per cover.
This is what i came up with.
0.40" printing plate, cut to shape, super strong mag tape loom clips and a foam gasket seal.
They are simple effective an most of all super cheap, less than £5 a pair. They hold in no problem over 100 mph and dont leak, they pop out in seconds rather than having to undo a ton of screws, much as it pained me to cut the car, the manifolds are so easy to get to now and bolt down tight.
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benlawrence
Full Member
Posts: 173
Re: my 56, street and a bit of strip.
«
Reply #46 on:
May 05, 2016, 21:53:47 pm »
Its been a long winter. In December my mate Dave at bugbitz helped me tear the motor down and we went through it, may as well have stayed together as there was nothing wrong with it bar a few leaky pushrod tubes, this year after much deliberation i decide i wanted to nitrous the car.
Ive spent the guts of a year gathering up parts to build up a system and it took me a long time for the right parts to come along 2nd hand or unwanted new.
Its a wizards kit direct port kit, i had my mate tig weld some boss's into the manifolds and tidy them up, i wont bore you with all the details of the build, im running 2 fuel systems both low pressure, one for nos one for fuel. today was the final day of plumbing the system and were good to go. im also running a Max extreme controller with transducers to keep an eye on the pressure side of stuff to be safe.
I primed the fuel for the carbs and checked for leaks, then cranked it, it fired straight up no dramas, ( well apart from that bloody fanbelt going walkies AGAIN and i put loads of time into the alignment, new deeper grooved pulley is on the cards, im fed up playing fetch )
So next up its get some Nitrous into the country as currently there is none, and even more of a worry, no one is dealing in it over here for the automotive industry, period. Ive spent weeks on the phone and dealt with everyone who used to supply it over here, all drawn blanks, there has been very little uptake in the use of nitrous in vehicles here in Ireland and the costs to bring it in for vendors means that even at £8 per lb, they will still be losing a tonne of money. I have a friend hopefully going to dragstalgia who has offered to get me a bottle filled and bring it home, that should be enough to get it dyno'd at least but im a patient man and the season is long. My goal for the car is drive it to the track and run an 11.99, if it all works out and everything is still together by the end of our drag day in August, i will turn it up a bit for our big road/boat trip to Santa Pod for VW Action.
A huge thank you to Danny Pike and Bernard Newbury for the advice theyve given me along the way, it has been much appreciated
Tonights fire up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRN_PvQzAVo
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Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 22:25:14 pm by benlawrence
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