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Author Topic: 2110 cc engine for earlybay  (Read 5120 times)
mychatype3
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Posts: 128



« on: February 21, 2013, 15:56:44 pm »

Hello all,

Not a pure race topic but a lot of engine knowledge here  Wink

From my old notchback I still have the following engine parts;

- Type1 (universal original) case, bored for 94mm with full flow and prepared for wbx crank;
- Mahle 94mm cylinders and pistons, stress honed and with total seal;
- WBX 2.1Liter 76 crank;
- Empi chroommolybdeen H-beams;
- flywheel, crank, clutch, pulley etc balanced;
- webcam 86c with special lobe center and 1.4 rockers;
- cb heads with 42x37 valves and flowed by Steve's VW Belgium, 48cc in the heads;

Now I drive a 1970 Westfalia for holiday's and VW-show cruising. I want to rebuild that engine for in the Westy! Not a screamer but a nice reliable torque engine for good uphill on holiday trips (France, Italia, Swiss)  and some faster cruising say 110/120 km/per hour.

What's the advice on cam and max. compression?
Now the cylinder and head has a 0,40copper ring with 48cc in the head so it is 10.5 compression,
Im thinking of 8.5 max. 9:1? But with cam will be ok?
Carburetors and exhaust from the notch are sold so Im thinking of a vintage speed exhaust
(with header box) and some 40 or 44idf's? (I had 44s on the notch).

All tips for a good reliable bus engine are welcome  Cool

Greetings from Holland Mycha


« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 16:01:16 pm by mychatype3 » Logged

1968 fastback "in resto"
1970 Westfalia from the States
richie
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Posts: 5585



« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 19:59:41 pm »

The biggest problem I see is the heads,with that small chamber you are going to struggle to get the compression down to a sensible level,if you do that with dech height alone it will be a problem.If you can get more cc in the chamber then that would help,or get another set of heads more suitable to what you need
I would think 8.5/1 with web 86a and i would use 45 dellortos if you can get a good set

cheers richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
LGK
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Posts: 142



WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 20:44:35 pm »

Hi Mycha,

I would take the next steps ;just trying to set you on the rails  Wink
First "dish" the pistons to get around 3cc in the piston.
Then rework the chamber/maybe a light hemi-cut to get around 52cc
With a deck of 1.5mm you get exactly 9/1 compression.
Take the right camshaft and you're done.

I agree what Richie said about the deck  ,don't get more then 1.5 mm.


regards Steve
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Torben Alstrup
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Posts: 716


« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 21:16:24 pm »

Dish the pistons 65 mm. 1,5 mm deep = 5 cc.
Is that the mini Wedge heads ?
Then a Web 86B cam advanced 2 degrees would work very well with 9-1 CR and 95 octane fuel.

T
Ohh and you would most likely want to swop those Empi rods. Im NOT impressed by the quality of those. A rebuilt stock rod is way better.
I do not like the solution with a copper ring between heads and cylinders. Tried it a few times and went away from it just as fast. To me its just one more risk of something leaking.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 22:22:14 pm by Torben Alstrup » Logged
besserwisser
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Posts: 135


« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 23:09:54 pm »

Just to point out how different our experiences are. have been running with copperrings in the heads since  -97 with no issues. By the way the same ones since then. But there are some procedures you have to do. First run in the cam let the motor cool down then retourqe the heads and you are set, hopefully for as many years as mine have worked. Ihave no doubts that some people have had other experiences but for me it works and its going back together for another season.
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richie
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 23:14:31 pm »

Hans,

its not that i am saying dont use the copper rings,I use the copper rings alot,they work well,its just not good to go more than  0.060 deck if you want it to work well Smiley

cheers richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
mychatype3
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Posts: 128



« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 13:23:27 pm »

Thanks all, you boy's give me some thought to think about  Wink
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1968 fastback "in resto"
1970 Westfalia from the States
mychatype3
Full Member
***
Posts: 128



« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 13:37:58 pm »

Is that the mini Wedge heads ?

The heads are CB 044 CNC Wedge Port (42x37.5) with some extra flow worked bij Steve  Cheesy

I agree what Richie said about the deck  ,don't get more then 1.5 mm.
regards Steve

its not that i am saying dont use the copper rings,I use the copper rings alot,they work well,its just not good to go more than  0.060 deck if you want it to work well Smiley cheers richie

When going for a deck of 1.5mm it's best to loose the copper-rings?

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1968 fastback "in resto"
1970 Westfalia from the States
richie
Hero Member
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Posts: 5585



« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 18:15:52 pm »

It doesnt really matter which way you achieve the deck height,you can use barrel shims or the copper head shims,or a combination of both

cheers richie
Logged

Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Torben Alstrup
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 716


« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2013, 22:17:56 pm »

The Wedge ports with the 42/37,5 mm valve combo is not known for their torque capabilities. they also work their best with high rev cams. Soo my recommendations would be to sell or swop these heads to a set with smaller ports. Knowing its going into a bus i would choose a set with better cooling capabilities than the 044. My choice for an off the shels set would be Tims Stage 2 heads. We know they work very vell also in a bus application. I have built several large cc (2275) bus engines with those heads and seen 160-165 hp and 220 - 230 Nm very usable torque.

T
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