Throttle cable choice.

[Taylor]

What are people running for throttle cables?  This is going in a stock pan car.  I ran the stock cable replacement for a number of years but it ws thin and kept slipping on the barrel nut.  I replaced it with a heavy duty bugpack version but the end that hooks to the gas pedal is too long and won't go into the accelerator cable tube causing the pedal to not have full motion.  I replace the stock Z shaped peace with some ball ends.  

[Neil Davies]

I had to use a bus cable in one of my cars to get the length for the turbo carb location. Seemed a bit beefier than the beetle version.

For the barrel nut at the back, I took an M8 bolt and cut the threaded part off, leaving just the shank, which just happens to be the same diameter and the barrel nut. Drill a hole through for the cable, and a hole down the end for an allen bolt and hey presto, improved barrel nut that you can hold with a 13mm spanner, not a pair of pliers!

[Sarge]

I'd upgrade to the later pedal and roller combo with a stock cable... less is more.

[Jim Ratto]

I second Sarge the Sage's advice.

[Dominick Luppino]

I used the 5510-10 Racing Throttle cable that BUGPACK sells, it's a heavy duty stainless steel 1/8" cable, I used it on mine and the kids car.

[hotrodsurplus]

Sarge and Dominic beat me to it. Accept no other cable than that thick one. The other HD cables don't do the trick.

That early pedal style is flawed from the word go. The load path causes the pedal to cock and that increases force and often impairs full operating range.

Tip 1:
If you're dead set on running the VW pedal then get the cast pedal mount from a later car. The pedal itself mounts to it instead of that flimsy little sheet-metal tab spot welded to the pan.

Tip 2:
You'll likely have to trim and tweak the throttle tube where it emerges from the pan. The longer ferrule usually hits it and prevents the throttle from fully returning. 

Tip 3:
Cables inevitably fray so cut the cable a few inches too long and weld or silver solder the end. You'll need to use a TIG if you weld it. You can silver solder it with a butane or Mapp torch (what I do). It's tricky but if you heat and flux the end of the cable then the solder will usually flow easily.

Tip 4:
The cable WILL fray where the barrel nut clamps to it. Mark where it clamps and silver solder that area too. It'll last forever.

Tip 5:
If you're not married to the idea of the stock stamped pedal then get a '57-and-earlier roller pedal and shim the sides where it pivots in the casting so it doesn't cock sideways. They're sooo much nicer than the crappy aftermarket pedals. If you prefer a flat pedal (I do) then get the Bugpack 5569 throttle pedal. They make throttle modulation easy even on an off-road car bouncing down a rutted trail.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-5569

[pupjoint]

is this the same? http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Super-Duty-Stainless-Steel-Racing-Throttle-Cable-p/5510-10.htm

i got from john last time, havent installed it yet

[hotrodsurplus]

is this the same? http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Super-Duty-Stainless-Steel-Racing-Throttle-Cable-p/5510-10.htm

i got from john last time, havent installed it yet

Yup. 5510.

If your local hardware store carries cable goods you can make the cables yourself. The one down the road from us has steel clevises and cables.

I actually prefer steel components over stainless because you can braze together the parts, close the cut end of the cable, and fill the cable where the nut clamps on it with regular brass and flux. You could even use solder. I prefer the lead-free solder because its high tin content makes it very strong. 

[Deanodynosaurs]

Not sure about the cable, but i had a similar idea about the pedal z piece.

[pupjoint]

Not sure about the cable, but i had a similar idea about the pedal z piece.

nice. anyone selling kits for these? Samba has a 2 sellers that offers "upgrades" to pedal assemblies, but they wont touch RHD ones, for obvious reasons.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=rmotren

[Deanodynosaurs]

nice. anyone selling kits for these? Samba has a 2 sellers that offers "upgrades" to pedal assemblies, but they wont touch RHD ones, for obvious reasons.

You dont need a kit, Just get 2 rose joints (m5/ 5mm i think from memory) and some threaded bar. Thats all mine is.

Dude 

[Jim Ratto]

Taylor, what's you dad's car have for linkage and return springs? I think that has to kind of play into which cable you run. I know when I went to Berg linkage in 1990, on my 44IDF's, after the Redline hexbar, the pedal got MUCH softer and smoother. If you read all the stuff written in the old Berg catalogs and their blue instructions book about their linkage, and set them up like they prescribe, then you shouldn't need more than a stock 111721555E cable (yes you'd have to change to '66- pedal). I haven't changed the throttle cable in my car since 2003-4. Make sure your ground strap between trans and chassis is in good shape! If it's missing or ripped, your cable will fry and die!

[bmxnut65]

Taylor, I also use the same cable as Dom. I have never had a problem with it.

[hotrodsurplus]

The carburetor linkage does indeed play a big role in a cable's life. You can set up a conventional cross-bar linkage to be as smooth as Berg's but you have to do your homework. For example, the same dynamics that apply to rocker-arm geometry also apply to linkage: for best operation all of the angles in the system should be perpendicular at half throttle (the angle between the cable and the input arm; the angle between the output arms and the vertical link; the angle between the vertical links and carburetor arms). At the very least that usually means altering the length of the vertical linkage pieces to get the output arms just right.

That also means altering the angle of the input arm relative to the cable. That's easy to achieve with the old Tayco-style linkage as you can alter the input/output arm angles infinitely. It's a little tougher with a hex-style linkage. For spot-on operation you often have to cut the input arm and weld it back on at a different angle. Every once in a while you'll see a really acute angle between the cable and input arm. You KNOW those suckers have the stiffest pedals on earth! A stiff operation indicates a lot of friction. Friction kills cables. 

Sometimes you even have to reposition the throttle tube within the fan shroud to bring the angles into spec. Very often you'll come across throttle tubes in even stock applications that have a groove worn into them. That represents a small-contact wear point that will destroy a cable in short order. Also, even for stock-carb applications I weld a tab to the throttle tube and another threaded one to the inside of the fan shroud and bolt the tube in place so the tube stays in place both vertically and axially. The latter is the key to proper operation of a throttle bowden tube (which makes a HUUUUUGE difference in throttle modulation and effort for the same reasons that a clutch bowden tube does).

All of this stuff applies to stock throttle cables as well but the 1/8-inch-thick cables have a claim that no stock cable can make: If set up properly the thick cable will last the life of the car. Even if you get the angles dead on you'll usually have to replace a stock cable at about 10,000-mile intervals.


On an unrelated subject, please tell me that's copper-clad steel tubing in this photo and not actual copper tubing. 

[Jim Ratto]

/\ all good points....I ran Tayco pro comp in mid 90's with my 48's when I had to wait for new ball joint ends for my Berg. Instead of a return spring @ each carb, I ran a long return spring from "upside" (above X bar) down to lower-inner 6mm bolt that holds alternator-backing-plate to face of fan shroud. Pedal was only a little stiffer than with Berg (using one spring on Berg). I think on the x-bar set ups, the manufacturers could make the center arm (that cable barrel goes into) longer than they do, giving better leverage and better alignment with stock cable tube. Yeah.... you see cars all the time that have linkage geometry all whacked out and you see the tell-tale "cleft lip" in the accel cable tube. Only a matter of time..... "plink"

[bmxnut65]

Jim, his dad's car has the same linkage as I do

[Taylor]

Jim, it does seem like the part the barrel nut goes through should be longer.  That would give a little more mechanical leverage.  But then the throw would be longer.  I am using the bugpack cable now that seems to have been developed for a dune buggy.  I drilled a second hole, behind the original, on the end that connects to the pedal.   But she still doesn't have full throttle.  Economy mode?