Perspective (Old and New and Everything In Between)

[Jim Ratto]

I was thinking today it woud be interesting to get everybody's perspective on how this niche hobby has evolved since they've been part of it. Obviously, guys that pretty much invented the scene (Sarge, John Lazenby, Kingsburg Phil, Dyno Don, etc) are probably going to have a much different view on what's come and gone (and come back again) versus us younger guys (I've only been into hot rod VW's for 27 years).
What was cutting edge when the scene was in its infancy later became "old news", only to become "cool" again, in some cases right? Which begs the question... "What's left to do to these old cars, yet still belong within the fuzzy lines that encircle the 'California Look'?"

I think old and new, 99.9% of us will agree a car like Dave Rhoads green '64 is 100% a "California Look car", it's got the big HP (but not the biggest) motor, Weber 48's, the holy grail wheels, bodywork devoid of moldings, T-bars and tidy (and individulaistic) interior and the history and time slips to back it all up. No brainer right?
How about Dave Mason's car? Again, big HP motor (11.30 1/4's), 48's, BRM's but this time with bumpers and moldings. Yet it looks "right" and obviously "goes right too", so it's a no brainer. But in the late 1980's, this approach (huge HP, sedate, stock bodywork and classic wheel treatment) was either a "standout" or a "walk on by..." car depending on your perspective.

Personally, when I first "became aware" and saw cars like Mason's (and Rhoads', Schwimmer's, Brinton's) etc, in 1989-90, it made that initial "burn" into what my own impression of what the scene was really about when you boiled it down to its essence: guys that were thumbing their noses  at what the masses were doing and quietly went about their own way of creating cars and a scene that stood for something to somebody. I think it took some time for the "other" segments of the VW hobby to really take notice of what these cars were about. In the early '90's, at the VW Classic, there were 10-12 cars done in the same vein, and largely unnoticed. By the late 1990's things had changed and the scene had exploded. And has morphed and grown since.
But what's next?

[Cheesepanzer]

The return of this?   

[Fritter]

Ronald McDonald Fuchs!!

[danny gabbard]

It is quite colorful !! LOL.

[danny gabbard]

Try'n to get into the paint/body world after get'n out of high school in 1980 ,I started taken painting class's at the local Jr collage. Was introduced to varies custom body work type stuff, And myself kind of glad to see fad'n out is the custom stuff in the VW world. Like a few thing's I did to my squareback. French'n front plate and intenia . And wild paint work.

[edcraig]

Whats next?  Two words...Safari fenders!  ;-)

...Ed.

[modnrod]

Can we please forget that "Turbo" mirrors ever existed?
yuk


With increasingly stringent emissions regs, combined with increasingly stringent bureaucracy, perhaps the next "big thing" will be cars that look stock but go hard enough to pull a sailor off your sister! 
Go the Superstockers!

[johnl]

I was thinking today it woud be interesting to get everybody's perspective on how this niche hobby has evolved since they've been part of it. Obviously, guys that pretty much invented the scene (Sarge, John Lazenby, Kingsburg Phil, Dyno Don, etc) are probably going to have a much different view on what's come and gone (and come back again) versus us younger guys (I've only been into hot rod VW's for 27 years).
What was cutting edge when the scene was in its infancy later became "old news", only to become "cool" again, in some cases right? Which begs the question... "What's left to do to these old cars, yet still belong within the fuzzy lines that encircle the 'California Look'?"

I think old and new, 99.9% of us will agree a car like Dave Rhoads green '64 is 100% a "California Look car", it's got the big HP (but not the biggest) motor, Weber 48's, the holy grail wheels, bodywork devoid of moldings, T-bars and tidy (and individulaistic) interior and the history and time slips to back it all up. No brainer right?
How about Dave Mason's car? Again, big HP motor (11.30 1/4's), 48's, BRM's but this time with bumpers and moldings. Yet it looks "right" and obviously "goes right too", so it's a no brainer. But in the late 1980's, this approach (huge HP, sedate, stock bodywork and classic wheel treatment) was either a "standout" or a "walk on by..." car depending on your perspective.

Personally, when I first "became aware" and saw cars like Mason's (and Rhoads', Schwimmer's, Brinton's) etc, in 1989-90, it made that initial "burn" into what my own impression of what the scene was really about when you boiled it down to its essence: guys that were thumbing their noses  at what the masses were doing and quietly went about their own way of creating cars and a scene that stood for something to somebody. I think it took some time for the "other" segments of the VW hobby to really take notice of what these cars were about. In the early '90's, at the VW Classic, there were 10-12 cars done in the same vein, and largely unnoticed. By the late 1990's things had changed and the scene had exploded. And has morphed and grown since.
But what's next?

Mr. Ratto as usual brings up an interesting topic for conversation.  Here would be my take on the subject.

Back in the beginning the words performance and Volkswagen really didn't go together.  Those of us back in those times would take heat from some of our American car Hot Rod friends.  We had to search for anything and everything we could to make the cars more than they were.  Chrome wheels and a few other types would probably be the first styling upgrade.  Headers didn't exist so about the only choice there would be to remove or modify the exhaust tips.  I could probably write for several minutes on that subject alone.

I remember going to Orange County Speed Shop on Orangethorpe close to where EMPI is today and ordering a Sun tach set up for a 4 cylinder engine.  Then I had someone in metal shop make a bracket (somewhat crude) that was mounted to the dash with that tach attached.  The thought of drilling those mounting holes in my dash makes me creng today.  This type of "visual" stuff made you and your car special in the day.

As time moved forward more visual and performance items became common place and it came down to what one could afford.  I was lucky as I had a job (box boy at Crawford's market) that alowed some of this stuff.  One of those big items was a Luk Porsche 180 diaphram clutch.  Joe Schneider of Schneider Motors introduced that to me and I may have been the first to have such.  I vividaly remember driving by Anaheim High School on Citron St. and getting 2nd gear rubber with a 40HP and having people look.  Of course I had to exercise the clutch at every opportunity and soon it wouldn't perform as when new and eventually I was breaking the gear box.

I was at Maloney Tire on Los Angeles St. (Anaheim Blvd. today) and there was the first Oldsmobile Toronado I ever saw.  While looking at the car a guy drove in with a VW and American 5 spoke mags (Chevy bolt pattern) all the way around.  He was selling wheel adapters to Maloney and I had to have them.  In the beginning they were only on the rear but as you've seen from photos eventually they were all the way around my car.

Glass fenders, deck lids, hoods, etc then evolved along with big clunky Nerf Bars that weighed as much as a stock bumper.  There were many more items that evolved in the performance and appearance world for the cars during those times as VWs were the rage and actually considered a status symbol.

The evolution to what is now considered the Cal-look occurred somewhere between 1967 and 1969.  I wasn't there to see it happen but when retuning from the service things were radically different.  All at once my wide glass rear fenders with adapters and Chevy mags looked out of place.  Quickly I realized the cars had come of age and today I'd compare it to the '32 Ford Hot Rod.  You know immediately when you see a '32 what it is because it has that classic shape.  Many mods are done to these cars but they still retain "the look".  I feel that the VW sedans have done exactly the same thing.  So with that stated I think our cars and the "look" may be there and will remain.  Some 50+ years ago many of the '32 Fords look as they do today but with better quality fit and finish.  To sum it up I'd say less is more..........

[Fritter]

I think the 72 DKP Featherly Park pics that John L and others have posted sum up cal look for me. Simple paint, simple decluttering mods, and additions just related to performance.  That was the perfect era to me.

[Jim Ratto]

I think the 72 DKP Featherly Park pics that John L and others have posted sum up cal look for me. Simple paint, simple decluttering mods, and additions just related to performance.  That was the perfect era to me.

I wholeheartedly agree. Before mirrors went under cars at shows, way before.

[bugnut68]

My opinion, simplistic or not, is that it's all cyclical.  Everything comes back around sooner or later.  As the cars continue to age and the numbers get smaller (in the big picture) the radical custom stuff of the '80s goes by the wayside by natural attrition.

[Lee.C]

I think the 72 DKP Featherly Park pics that John L and others have posted sum up cal look for me. Simple paint, simple decluttering mods, and additions just related to performance.  That was the perfect era to me.

that really does sum it up !!!!!! 

[bugnut68]

The return of this?   

People may want to hang me for saying so, but I find that car much less hideous than some of the radical/full customs that some folks with too much money/time on their hands have built in recent years...lol.  The "Bugsplat" rat rod in a recent Hot VWs comes to mind, though I'll preface my dislike of that car by saying I completely and congenially respect the owner's effort.

[Cheesepanzer]

But what's next?

I was obviously kidding with that 80's multi-color shot. 

I think our hobby will likely go the way of the street rod crowd.  There will be traditionalists, the new technology players, and stuff in between.  By comparison, there are still those out there that build a hot rod using a flat head Ford with traditional parts.  Paint on those cars/trucks tend to be single color, non-metallic colors and the wheels and tires tend to be "throw back variety like steels, hubcaps and rings or American 5-spokes.  Then there are the ones that have the latest paint colors, metallic, billet wheels, fancy suspensions, billet parts, high-end leather-type interiors, electronic components, fuel injection and complex ignitions, PC tuning, etc.  I think most would agree that we've seen this enter the air-cooled VW hobby.  Nothing really wrong with that, to each their own.  When you go to a hot rod show you'll still see well done examples of cars that very well could have rolled out in 1960, 1970, etc.

I expect to see more technology creeping into our VW hobby.  Modern coil/plug ignitions, fuel injection, computers/ECM/PCM, engines with components and tolerances designed to run today's low emission 5W/20 oils, and more. 

As for me, I'm sticking with tradition.  I can't wait to bolt on my copper Hurst shifter, Hunt magneto, IDA's and Centerlines to my '62.

[Fritter]

Yea David!

Personally I think that since our cars are 50-60 years old, they should be built in a traditional sense....trying to put all the modern technology on a cal looker is kinda dumb.  Just buy a 993-996-997-991 Porsche and be done with it if you want new. 

[stealth67vw]

The return of this?   

I've had that Hot VWs issue in my bathroom for over a year.  It has a 2110 with IDAs and a Berg 5 speed.

[Zach Gomulka]

Yea David!

Personally I think that since our cars are 50-60 years old, they should be built in a traditional sense....trying to put all the modern technology on a cal looker is kinda dumb.  Just buy a 993-996-997-991 Porsche and be done with it if you want new. 

Agreed!

[56BLITZ]

But what's next?

A proper Cal-Look VW is definitely steeped in tradition.
When I built my '67, I pushed the envelope so to speak, because I wanted to be different from the old timers. Heck, some of those D.K.P. guys were already over 30 years old by then . . .
It is undeniable, however, that small group, those "old timers", defined "the look" for us all.

The various trendy fads . . .  graphics, two-tone paint, murals, or what ever else we have seen done, make a car look dated. I would have to guess that if fresh car is built and the owner includes something that was a short-lived fad, there must be some nostalgia involved . . . some pleasant memories from a certain time that the owner wants to relive. I don't think that we will ever see a full-scale revival of red with yellow painted alloys! Conversely, a VW with all the traditional elements does not look dated, it simply looks correct and timeless.

The evolution to what is now considered the Cal-look occurred somewhere between 1967 and 1969.  All at once wide glass rear fenders with adapters and Chevy mags looked out of place.

John, you are talking about wide FLARED fiberglass fenders, right? Our next-door neighbor's son had a '68 like you just described.  It was in excellent condition and he always kept it very clean, but every time I saw it, I remember thinking it could be fixed to look cool. All it needed was a set of fenders, dechroming, new wheels/tires, and a little lowering in the front . . .

Are flared fiberglass fenders collector's items yet?

[johnl]

The evolution to what is now considered the Cal-look occurred somewhere between 1967 and 1969.  All at once wide glass rear fenders with adapters and Chevy mags looked out of place.


John, you are talking about wide FLARED fiberglass fenders, right? Our next-door neighbor's son had a '68 like you just described.  It was in excellent condition and he always kept it very clean, but every time I saw it, I remember thinking it could be fixed to look cool. All it needed was a set of fenders, dechroming, new wheels/tires, and a little lowering in the front . . .

Are flared fiberglass fenders collector's items yet?

Yes, I was speaking of flared fiberglass fenders.  Will they ever become a collectable item?  They could as I can't believe some of the things that command such high dollars these days.  For me I'd only want the fenders like my car had back in the day.

[Jim Ratto]

all good points guys

What I'm trying to get here, is what was your initial impression when you got into the scene? What made you take notice? What has changed (to your liiking or disliking) since then?

One thing I remember was the sensation of "shock" not only from the first real fast ride I went for, but also the visual aspect. Two different cars, the first real monster I went for a ride in was a primered trash-can of a '64 but it was untouchable in high school parking lot full of Z28's and Trans Ams. But for the initial shock of what could be done, aesthetically, it was Pete Staat's metallic blue car from the mid 1980's, then the line up @ the VW Jamboree 1990 (Costa Mesa).... Gary Berg, Schwimmer, Jim Lowe, Dave Mason, Brody Hoyt, Hector, Jim Bangs, Rayburn...

More than anything, for me, something about a definitive Cal Look hot rod, something about the car has to make you keep thinking about it. When I got into the scene, the big thing was aqua-blue-green paint, repro 8 spokes (even on '67 & earlier), 1-piece windows, no moldings, chrome engines and Baby Dellortos. There were rows and rows of identical cars like this @ Bug Bash in the 1980's (Pleasanton CA). My '67 was bone stock aside from 5.5" wide chrome 5 lug wheels and amber topped taillights. And the small hot rod motor I built for it, senior year.
I agree, some of the aspects of what has, long term, defined "The Look" are timeless, and will remain so. But, again, something needs to stand out. Walking the shows in the early 1990's if a car wore BRM's, it was an event.

[hotrodsurplus]

What I'm trying to get here, is what was your initial impression when you got into the scene? What made you take notice? What has changed (to your liiking or disliking) since then?

Okay, here's what I remember from when I got into Volkswagens in the mid '80s. Beetles were the Model T of the day. I got my Thing (an original-paint Acapulco) for $200 in 1986-'87 ($409 in today's money). I got my first beetle, a rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today).

Proof that we knew they were cheap was in what we did to them. I was kind to my cars (still have the Thing in fact) but many of the kids my age in Las Vegas tore their cars up. They were disposable--throw it in tha gutter and go buy another. Everyone knew of a solid roller for a Benjamin and even at that price those cars sat. Baja bugs were EVERYWHERE.

Now this is the part where I piss off people. 

Because those cars were so disposable we really enjoyed them--they were basically grown-up go-karts. That's the one thing that I lament today; many people forgot how to have fun with these cars and frankly that's the Volkswagen's greatest charm.

Sure, most people build big engines and lower 'em and so on but now the cars are too precious, too 'valuable' to do the things that endeared these cars to us years ago. I'd bet that most people in the scene today don't know how to spin a donut. How can you kick ass on downtown streets at 2AM when you have to come to a complete halt to cross a water trough because your car is so low to look 'cool'? You know the party's over when people start bragging about how they never drive their cars in the rain or when they start to moan about paint flaws or refuse to eat a burger in the car--a must-have experience at an In & Out or the original Tommy's if you haven't done so already.

I'm not saying that we have to intentionally damage our cars but man we'd be so much better off if more people stopped thinking of them as Faberge eggs. They're NOT. Despite the cultural veneer we've laid over them they're just econoboxes. Big deal if you put one into a curb. Metal bends back into shape. Paint repairs aren't impossible. Believe it or not rock chips look sort of cool--they prove that you enjoy your car. My point, you made the car nice the first time around so you can do it again.

And I don't want to hear some cop-out about how expensive the cars are nowadays. I bought my bug with money I saved at my $3.75/hour job washing cars. We knew it wasn't all that much money then but laying out that $800 for a 23-year-old car really stung in 1988. Today the price of a car like the one I bought in '88 hasn't increased as much as my income has. And aftermarket parts are cheaper than EVER. I'm holding an April '88 HVWs in my hand right now. Johnny's Peel & Fade asked $56 for an Empi 5 clone. That's $114 today. CIP1 now sells the same wheel for $69! An 82mm crank was $349--that's $686 now! You can get a nice forged crank for HALF of that.

I rant like this because I see the writing on the wall. I work in the hot rod/street rod industry. I see firsthand what happens when people start taking economy cars too seriously. The street rod crowd in particular is the biggest bunch of pussies. They'll spend all this dough on big engines, big tires, fancy suspension, and so forth and never hit more than half throttle for more than a few seconds. We have to be careful that we don't turn into those fannypack-wearing old timers who sip light beer in lawn chairs next to their cars at car shows. All they do is talk about the 'good old days', the times before they forgot how to have fun.

That's why I really admire Bruce for taking his car down to Mexico. Seems like every time I see a burnout video it's some European cat. I drove my Thing to Bonneville last year, 2,800 miles round trip and I spent at least four days on the salt that everybody thinks will ruin a car (it won't, you just have to clean it properly). My point? That shit's FUN! It makes for good stories and what else is there than experiences with our friends? The cars are just a common interest among us. Make them work for you for a change.

[/rant]

[Jim Ratto]

What I'm trying to get here, is what was your initial impression when you got into the scene? What made you take notice? What has changed (to your liiking or disliking) since then?

Okay, here's what I remember from when I got into Volkswagens in the mid '80s. Beetles were the Model T of the day. I got my Thing (an original-paint Acapulco) for $200 in 1986-'87 ($409 in today's money). I got my first beetle, a rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today).

Proof that we knew they were cheap was in what we did to them. I was kind to my cars (still have the Thing in fact) but many of the kids my age in Las Vegas tore their cars up. They were disposable--throw it in tha gutter and go buy another. Everyone knew of a solid roller for a Benjamin and even at that price those cars sat. Baja bugs were EVERYWHERE.

Now this is the part where I piss off people. 

Because those cars were so disposable we really enjoyed them--they were basically grown-up go-karts. That's the one thing that I lament today; many people forgot how to have fun with these cars and frankly that's the Volkswagen's greatest charm.

Sure, most people build big engines and lower 'em and so on but now the cars are too precious, too 'valuable' to do the things that endeared these cars to us years ago. I'd bet that most people in the scene today don't know how to spin a donut. How can you kick ass on downtown streets at 2AM when you have to come to a complete halt to cross a water trough because your car is so low to look 'cool'? You know the party's over when people start bragging about how they never drive their cars in the rain or when they start to moan about paint flaws or refuse to eat a burger in the car--a must-have experience at an In & Out or the original Tommy's if you haven't done so already.

I'm not saying that we have to intentionally damage our cars but man we'd be so much better off if more people stopped thinking of them as Faberge eggs. They're NOT. Despite the cultural veneer we've laid over them they're just econoboxes. Big deal if you put one into a curb. Metal bends back into shape. Paint repairs aren't impossible. Believe it or not rock chips look sort of cool--they prove that you enjoy your car. My point, you made the car nice the first time around so you can do it again.

And I don't want to hear some cop-out about how expensive the cars are nowadays. I bought my bug with money I saved at my $3.75/hour job washing cars. We knew it wasn't all that much money then but laying out that $800 for a 23-year-old car really stung in 1988. Today the price of a car like the one I bought in '88 hasn't increased as much as my income has. And aftermarket parts are cheaper than EVER. I'm holding an April '88 HVWs in my hand right now. Johnny's Peel & Fade asked $56 for an Empi 5 clone. That's $114 today. CIP1 now sells the same wheel for $69! An 82mm crank was $349--that's $686 now! You can get a nice forged crank for HALF of that.

I rant like this because I see the writing on the wall. I work in the hot rod/street rod industry. I see firsthand what happens when people start taking economy cars too seriously. The street rod crowd in particular is the biggest bunch of pussies. They'll spend all this dough on big engines, big tires, fancy suspension, and so forth and never hit more than half throttle for more than a few seconds. We have to be careful that we don't turn into those fannypack-wearing old timers who sip light beer in lawn chairs next to their cars at car shows. All they do is talk about the 'good old days', the times before they forgot how to have fun.

That's why I really admire Bruce for taking his car down to Mexico. Seems like every time I see a burnout video it's some European cat. I drove my Thing to Bonneville last year, 2,800 miles round trip and I spent at least four days on the salt that everybody thinks will ruin a car (it won't, you just have to clean it properly). My point? That shit's FUN! It makes for good stories and what else is there than experiences with our friends? The cars are just a common interest among us. Make them work for you for a change.

[/rant]

I love this post. best post I've read in a long long time

[bugnut68]

What I'm trying to get here, is what was your initial impression when you got into the scene? What made you take notice? What has changed (to your liiking or disliking) since then?

Okay, here's what I remember from when I got into Volkswagens in the mid '80s. Beetles were the Model T of the day. I got my Thing (an original-paint Acapulco) for $200 in 1986-'87 ($409 in today's money). I got my first beetle, a rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today).

Proof that we knew they were cheap was in what we did to them. I was kind to my cars (still have the Thing in fact) but many of the kids my age in Las Vegas tore their cars up. They were disposable--throw it in tha gutter and go buy another. Everyone knew of a solid roller for a Benjamin and even at that price those cars sat. Baja bugs were EVERYWHERE.

Now this is the part where I piss off people. 

Because those cars were so disposable we really enjoyed them--they were basically grown-up go-karts. That's the one thing that I lament today; many people forgot how to have fun with these cars and frankly that's the Volkswagen's greatest charm.

Sure, most people build big engines and lower 'em and so on but now the cars are too precious, too 'valuable' to do the things that endeared these cars to us years ago. I'd bet that most people in the scene today don't know how to spin a donut. How can you kick ass on downtown streets at 2AM when you have to come to a complete halt to cross a water trough because your car is so low to look 'cool'? You know the party's over when people start bragging about how they never drive their cars in the rain or when they start to moan about paint flaws or refuse to eat a burger in the car--a must-have experience at an In & Out or the original Tommy's if you haven't done so already.

I'm not saying that we have to intentionally damage our cars but man we'd be so much better off if more people stopped thinking of them as Faberge eggs. They're NOT. Despite the cultural veneer we've laid over them they're just econoboxes. Big deal if you put one into a curb. Metal bends back into shape. Paint repairs aren't impossible. Believe it or not rock chips look sort of cool--they prove that you enjoy your car. My point, you made the car nice the first time around so you can do it again.

And I don't want to hear some cop-out about how expensive the cars are nowadays. I bought my bug with money I saved at my $3.75/hour job washing cars. We knew it wasn't all that much money then but laying out that $800 for a 23-year-old car really stung in 1988. Today the price of a car like the one I bought in '88 hasn't increased as much as my income has. And aftermarket parts are cheaper than EVER. I'm holding an April '88 HVWs in my hand right now. Johnny's Peel & Fade asked $56 for an Empi 5 clone. That's $114 today. CIP1 now sells the same wheel for $69! An 82mm crank was $349--that's $686 now! You can get a nice forged crank for HALF of that.

I rant like this because I see the writing on the wall. I work in the hot rod/street rod industry. I see firsthand what happens when people start taking economy cars too seriously. The street rod crowd in particular is the biggest bunch of pussies. They'll spend all this dough on big engines, big tires, fancy suspension, and so forth and never hit more than half throttle for more than a few seconds. We have to be careful that we don't turn into those fannypack-wearing old timers who sip light beer in lawn chairs next to their cars at car shows. All they do is talk about the 'good old days', the times before they forgot how to have fun.

That's why I really admire Bruce for taking his car down to Mexico. Seems like every time I see a burnout video it's some European cat. I drove my Thing to Bonneville last year, 2,800 miles round trip and I spent at least four days on the salt that everybody thinks will ruin a car (it won't, you just have to clean it properly). My point? That shit's FUN! It makes for good stories and what else is there than experiences with our friends? The cars are just a common interest among us. Make them work for you for a change.

[/rant]

I completely concur.  Thank you for saying what's been on my mind for a long time.  "Grown-up Go-Karts.."  That couldn't possibly be any more true...lol.

[Dyno-Don]

What I'm trying to get here, is what was your initial impression when you got into the scene? What made you take notice? What has changed (to your liiking or disliking) since then?

Okay, here's what I remember from when I got into Volkswagens in the mid '80s. Beetles were the Model T of the day. I got my Thing (an original-paint Acapulco) for $200 in 1986-'87 ($409 in today's money). I got my first beetle, a rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today).

Proof that we knew they were cheap was in what we did to them. I was kind to my cars (still have the Thing in fact) but many of the kids my age in Las Vegas tore their cars up. They were disposable--throw it in tha gutter and go buy another. Everyone knew of a solid roller for a Benjamin and even at that price those cars sat. Baja bugs were EVERYWHERE.

Now this is the part where I piss off people. 

Because those cars were so disposable we really enjoyed them--they were basically grown-up go-karts. That's the one thing that I lament today; many people forgot how to have fun with these cars and frankly that's the Volkswagen's greatest charm.

Sure, most people build big engines and lower 'em and so on but now the cars are too precious, too 'valuable' to do the things that endeared these cars to us years ago. I'd bet that most people in the scene today don't know how to spin a donut. How can you kick ass on downtown streets at 2AM when you have to come to a complete halt to cross a water trough because your car is so low to look 'cool'? You know the party's over when people start bragging about how they never drive their cars in the rain or when they start to moan about paint flaws or refuse to eat a burger in the car--a must-have experience at an In & Out or the original Tommy's if you haven't done so already.

I'm not saying that we have to intentionally damage our cars but man we'd be so much better off if more people stopped thinking of them as Faberge eggs. They're NOT. Despite the cultural veneer we've laid over them they're just econoboxes. Big deal if you put one into a curb. Metal bends back into shape. Paint repairs aren't impossible. Believe it or not rock chips look sort of cool--they prove that you enjoy your car. My point, you made the car nice the first time around so you can do it again.

And I don't want to hear some cop-out about how expensive the cars are nowadays. I bought my bug with money I saved at my $3.75/hour job washing cars. We knew it wasn't all that much money then but laying out that $800 for a 23-year-old car really stung in 1988. Today the price of a car like the one I bought in '88 hasn't increased as much as my income has. And aftermarket parts are cheaper than EVER. I'm holding an April '88 HVWs in my hand right now. Johnny's Peel & Fade asked $56 for an Empi 5 clone. That's $114 today. CIP1 now sells the same wheel for $69! An 82mm crank was $349--that's $686 now! You can get a nice forged crank for HALF of that.

I rant like this because I see the writing on the wall. I work in the hot rod/street rod industry. I see firsthand what happens when people start taking economy cars too seriously. The street rod crowd in particular is the biggest bunch of pussies. They'll spend all this dough on big engines, big tires, fancy suspension, and so forth and never hit more than half throttle for more than a few seconds. We have to be careful that we don't turn into those fannypack-wearing old timers who sip light beer in lawn chairs next to their cars at car shows. All they do is talk about the 'good old days', the times before they forgot how to have fun.

That's why I really admire Bruce for taking his car down to Mexico. Seems like every time I see a burnout video it's some European cat. I drove my Thing to Bonneville last year, 2,800 miles round trip and I spent at least four days on the salt that everybody thinks will ruin a car (it won't, you just have to clean it properly). My point? That shit's FUN! It makes for good stories and what else is there than experiences with our friends? The cars are just a common interest among us. Make them work for you for a change.

[/rant]

Chris - You're right, we don't need to become like those dreaded Street Rodders! The only thing I have to disagree with you on this is the price of admission. You say your Thing would be $409.00 in today's money - I'll give you double that - right now, cash American! But of course you won't sell it to me for that because we all know that a decent Thing can easily bring $8-10k
And a "rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today)" ~ I'll take all you can get, especially since I just sold my '63 rag (that wasn't even lowered) for almost 5 times that.
My tongue in cheek point is there is quite a bit of difference to get involved with the hobby now in regards to initial purchase.

But I do agree that many folks take these cars (just like the street Rod crowd) too far and too serious and then worry far too much abut hurting then (I like the Faberge egg reference)
I will never forget something that happened a while back. I was in my 32 Coupe (you know the car), a car that I sold for about $90k ~ I did a big old smokey burnout and this guy read me the riot act. I thought he was pissed for doing something "childish" and "Irresponsible" - no he was pissed that I was "treating the car that way!" I told him I didn't build a 450 HP small block Ford and back it with a Top Loader 4 speed to drive it like my 80 year mother!

And by the same token, last weekend I was at a red light and the guy next to me honks at me, it was Nick Licata (Editor of Camaro Performaers) So when the light turned green my little '66 bug somehow did a nice little burn out. Oh the Horror 

[hotrodsurplus]

Chris - You're right, we don't need to become like those dreaded Street Rodders!

Sez the one guy with a Deuce coupe to another with a roadster.
 

The only thing I have to disagree with you on this is the price of admission. You say your Thing would be $409.00 in today's money - I'll give you double that - right now, cash American! But of course you won't sell it to me for that because we all know that a decent Thing can easily bring $8-10k nd a "rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today)"
~ I'll take all you can get, especially since I just sold my '63 rag (that wasn't even lowered) for almost 5 times that.
My tongue in cheek point is there is quite a bit of difference to get involved with the hobby now in regards to initial purchase.

First off, how DARE you challenge me you lutefisk sniffer?!

Actually I could have made my point a little more concisely. In the end it balances out: I make exponentially more today than I did when I paid the equivalent of $1,640 then. All of us do (or at least SHOULD) make more than we did 25 years ago, even accounting for inflation. Also we have to consider the condition of the car. Your '63 was probably a hell of a lot nicer than my '65. In fact just last year I saw a slightly tattier '64 in Spokanistan that the guy couldn't unload for $2,500.

Also, I never said that what I paid was the going price at the time. Remember, I'm the son of a car salesman. I buy low.  There's a word for the guy who paid that much for your car: sucker.

But I do agree that many folks take these cars (just like the street Rod crowd) too far and too serious and then worry far too much abut hurting then (I like the Faberge egg reference)

I think that's my general statement. Oh yeah, for full disclosure I owe the Faberge Egg thing to Bill Stewart. He's a cool dude.

I will never forget something that happened a while back. I was in my 32 Coupe (you know the car), a car that I sold for about $90k

Jesus, Don! Did you use a gun? This must've been before the market implosion.

I did a big old smokey burnout and this guy read me the riot act. I thought he was pissed for doing something "childish" and "Irresponsible" - no he was pissed that I was "treating the car that way!"

That's a man who deserves to get punched. Maybe not in the face or anything but a good fist to the belly would do him good.

I told him I didn't build a 450 HP small block Ford and back it with a Top Loader 4 speed to drive it like my 80 year mother!

How on earth do you drive your mother? Wait...I don't want to know that. 

And by the same token, last weekend I was at a red light and the guy next to me honks at me, it was Nick Licata (Editor of Camaro Performaers) So when the light turned green my little '66 bug somehow did a nice little burn out. Oh the Horror 

So how many car lengths did he give you?

Speaking of Camaro Performers, didja see last month's cover? The front 3/4 shot that he didn't use as the spread is one of the posters in the Source tech center. I'm kind of a big deal you know.... 

[Dyno-Don]

Chris - You're right, we don't need to become like those dreaded Street Rodders!

Sez the one guy with a Deuce coupe to another with a roadster.
 

The only thing I have to disagree with you on this is the price of admission. You say your Thing would be $409.00 in today's money - I'll give you double that - right now, cash American! But of course you won't sell it to me for that because we all know that a decent Thing can easily bring $8-10k nd a "rust-free original-paint '65 sunroof that was already lowered in the nose and had new 135-165 XZXs for $800 in 1988 ($1,640 today)"
~ I'll take all you can get, especially since I just sold my '63 rag (that wasn't even lowered) for almost 5 times that.
My tongue in cheek point is there is quite a bit of difference to get involved with the hobby now in regards to initial purchase.

First off, how DARE you challenge me you lutefisk sniffer?!

Actually I could have made my point a little more concisely. In the end it balances out: I make exponentially more today than I did when I paid the equivalent of $1,640 then. All of us do (or at least SHOULD) make more than we did 25 years ago, even accounting for inflation. Also we have to consider the condition of the car. Your '63 was probably a hell of a lot nicer than my '65. In fact just last year I saw a slightly tattier '64 in Spokanistan that the guy couldn't unload for $2,500.

Also, I never said that what I paid was the going price at the time. Remember, I'm the son of a car salesman. I buy low.  There's a word for the guy who paid that much for your car: sucker.

But I do agree that many folks take these cars (just like the street Rod crowd) too far and too serious and then worry far too much abut hurting then (I like the Faberge egg reference)

I think that's my general statement. Oh yeah, for full disclosure I owe the Faberge Egg thing to Bill Stewart. He's a cool dude.

I will never forget something that happened a while back. I was in my 32 Coupe (you know the car), a car that I sold for about $90k

Jesus, Don! Did you use a gun? This must've been before the market implosion.

I did a big old smokey burnout and this guy read me the riot act. I thought he was pissed for doing something "childish" and "Irresponsible" - no he was pissed that I was "treating the car that way!"

That's a man who deserves to get punched. Maybe not in the face or anything but a good fist to the belly would do him good.

I told him I didn't build a 450 HP small block Ford and back it with a Top Loader 4 speed to drive it like my 80 year mother!

How on earth do you drive your mother? Wait...I don't want to know that. 

And by the same token, last weekend I was at a red light and the guy next to me honks at me, it was Nick Licata (Editor of Camaro Performaers) So when the light turned green my little '66 bug somehow did a nice little burn out. Oh the Horror 

So how many car lengths did he give you?

Speaking of Camaro Performers, didja see last month's cover? The front 3/4 shot that he didn't use as the spread is one of the posters in the Source tech center. I'm kind of a big deal you know.... 

I never sniff the fish before eating it.
The duece coupe is gone, so is the 29 RPU ~ a 37 Coupe is now in that parking place, at least for now
Let's leave my mom out of this

Nick was in his Jap pickup and turning right - or he would have smoked me. And don't tell Nick, but I don't read that rag unless there is an article on our products 
I already knew you were a Big Deal, you're just so dreamy.

[hotrodsurplus]

And don't tell Nick, but I don't read that rag unless there is an article on our products 

Hey, don't feel bad: I don't read ANY magazines! Have you ever read the crap they print in them? You'd think they were just trying to sell you somethin'. 

I already knew you were a Big Deal, you're just so dreamy.

I'm glad SOMEONE does.

[javabug]

I didn't get "into" the scene in the '80s, but that's when my mom would buy her car-obsessed son a magazine off the rack at the grocery store. Of course I was aware of my surroundings and even on the salty east coast at that time there were still aircooled cars around, so I was familiar. What kid doesn't dig a Bug?

Anyhow, I remember occasionally finding a VW 'zine and coming home with it. And man did it blow my mind to see the neat stuff people were doing with Bugs. Ok, they're a funky car on their own; now add your personal twist, some bright colors, shiny wheels, and suddenly you're having fun.

That's what I lament the most about the "modern" aircooled scene. The daring is gone. The expression is gone (not everybody's expression is good, granted). Where's the desire to build something that stands out? An aircooled VW stands out now just by default, but that's not the same.

I've recently confided to someone on here that I'm DYING to build an '80s car. I want to do a lot of the things that enthusiasts today would wail and gnash their teeth over. And not just to piss people off ... it reminds me of why I really started to dig Bugs. I get that fun feeling.

[Zach Gomulka]

When I first started there were kids doing it, and it was cheap. I know this because I was a kid, I had a minimum wage job, and I was doing it.

[hotrodsurplus]

When I first started there were kids doing it, and it was cheap. I know this because I was a kid, I had a minimum wage job, and I was doing it.

You also have to factor in familiarity. When I was a real little kid I remember several people that my family knew had beetles. Once upon a time (like well into the '80s) it was common for an intersection to have at least one air-cooled Volkswagen in it. So we sort of grew up with the cars.

Nowadays you're somewhat lucky if you see an ACVW on the road at all, especially if you're off the West Coast or Southwest. So unless a kid has some sort of exposure through a friend or family member it isn't so likely to own one.

And frankly I can't blame people for not getting into air-cooled volkswagens. They handle like shit, they have bothersome mechanical restraints, they're quite dangerous, and good parts are really getting hard to find now. If you ask the average enthusiast why they dig Volkswagens it's usually because they like to prove that they can triumph over the perceived shortcomings. The main reason I stick with 'em is that they remind me of the good times. I get the warm fuzzies when I think about them. Logically though, it makes much more sense to get into Subarus or new Mustangs (flame away, people!)