12sec 1776 challenge

[Anders]

Hi fellas,

Thought I’d start a thread on here about my current project, namely getting my car into the 12 second club.

I bought this car back in 2005, from now my good friend Vegard aka BABOON.
This was back when I was studying and since money was in short supply it seemed like the perfect fit.
I drove it for about a year and after attending my first SCC in 2006 I decided to do a pan of restoration
and to rebuild the car as cal-looker (didn’t go down to well with my wife).

Spending all the money I had while studying, minus some for beer, food and rent, it took me 3 years to get the car ”done”.

Here’s a picture of it before and a couple of it after, I’m the guy with the cap.
(Fabs: hope it’s OK that I post your pic)

[Anders]

The engine was bought from JHU who in turn bought it off a guy at a local swap meet.
It is an old formula V one but has later been bored to 1600cc.

After I bought I’ve fitted it with a berg CW crank, JPM modified heads, raptor cam and a 010 dizzy.
Compression is set to 11:1.

This engine does mid 15 seconds all day long with a 1300s gearbox.
My best ET was 15.478 @ 134kph at SCC2011, not too bad for a 1600 singel port.

[Anders]

Now, a lot of 15sec passes later, I feel like it’s time to move on.

I’ve always liked small engines and since getting into the 12’s with a 2l+ engine
don’t post much of a challenge these days I thought I would try to do it with a 1776,
while keeping it old school looking (Most expensive idea I’ve had for a while).
 
I’ve been collecting parts for about a year now and finally have everything I need to get the build going.

Specs so far is:
043 Heads
new AS 41 case (full flow + shuffle pins center main only)
Berg 69 crank (from the other engine)
Super race rods
Custom JE 90,5 pistons
short DDS IDA manifolds
DDS power pulley
DDS look’a’like sump
Berg 26mm oil pump
scat pro comp 1:1.4 rockers
Logmech alu push rods
Custom Turbo Thomas stainless exhaust
KEP stage 1 + daikin super disc
Etc

Getting a ton of parts delivered is pretty fun. Too bad it doesn’t happen more often. 

Stay tuned for more.

[Lee.C]

Hmmmm interesting 

[Anders]

Indeed, it should prove very interesting. I hope to complete the engine by SCC2013 and to have it dynoed.
After that I'll have enough information about the power range of the engine to put together a matching gearbox.
The box will have to come some time next year as the budget for 2013 is long gone.

One of the challenges with the old engine was to get enough air down the carbs. Originally the sprint kit comes with thin pancake filters,
which of course is quite flow restricting. I ran my engine without the filters and tried to manufacture a set of really low stacks.
The problem is that it's only about 5cm from the base of the carb to the firewall. You can tell how big the problem really is by observing all
the paint the engine sucked out from the firewall. 

This engine would probably live a happier life in something with a bit more space in the engine bay, like a ghia or bus.

[reijo5]

like the sound of this , keep us posted 

[Jesse Wens]

what about headwork?
I got some 043s too and would like some ideas around those

[Andy Sykes]

i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp 

[Lee.C]

i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp 

That is an amazing engine 

I would start reading the "mouse motor" thread 

[Anders]

i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp 

That is some serious numbers from a 1776!
Can't remember, but did JPM do the heads for Peter?
JPM did mine and he mentioned a "similar" set in the UK.

If this is the case, my heads should be a bit more street friendly than Peter's.
They don't flow as much, but the gas velocity is higher so I'm hoping for decent torque numbers as well.

I'll post some pictures of the heads when I get back from the cabin,
only head I can show you today is a really red one after a fantastic weekend with a lot of sun!  

[Lee.C]

i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp 

That is some serious numbers from a 1776!
Can't remember, but did JPM do the heads for Peter?
JPM did mine and he mentioned a "similar" set in the UK.

If this is the case, my heads should be a bit more street friendly than Peter's.
They don't flow as much, but the gas velocity is higher so I'm hoping for decent torque numbers as well.

I'll post some pictures of the heads when I get back from the cabin,
only head I can show you today is a really red one after a fantastic weekend with a lot of sun!  

I think it a JPM built motor 

I am looking forward to seeing some number 

[Anders]

Ok, so here are some pictures of the heads.
Johannes did an outstanding job on them, and I can't wait to see how they perform.

Had to add some meat to the DDS manifolds, but the logo is still clearly visible 
The height of the manifold are just perfect for this engine, so they did things right back in the days as well...

[Anders]

..

[Anders]

Valve size is 41/35mm and they seem to put out some decent numbers.

Flow with the manifold @25":
2,  41.1                           35,1
4,  78,4                           74,3
6,  112,5                         98,8
8,  143,4                        115,1
10,  165,6                      128,0
12,  180,2                      136,6
14,  188,1                      142,2
16,  191,1                      146,1

should be enough to break the 200hp limit.

[BeetleBug]

Wow.. a project thread from one of the Stormtroopers and a interesting one too  

Those heads are pure art! 41mm intake valve and 191 cfm!! What about your gearbox? Will it handle the new engine you think?

Keep us updated!

Bestr rgs
BB

[Anders]

I sure hope not!  That would give me the perfect reason to replace it with a better one.

All I hope to get out of the old gearbox, a 1300s, is some test and tune runs at SCC.
I plan on getting a new box built for the next season with shorter gears.

[Wout]

Nice car, made this last summer...

gr
Wout

[Jesse Wens]

Thanks for the headhots, those look great

[Benou67]

CSP exhaust ?

[Anders]

Thanks for posting the pictures Wout! 

Benou67: Correct, the old engine was fitted with a CSP dual quiet pack

[cedric]

Wow suchs number on the flow......

[Jon]

Nice project!

[Jesse/DVK]

Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?

[Lee.C]

You should also speak to Ian Clake - he has ALOT of experience with 1776's 

[wolfswest]

Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?

Porsche pattern Minilites I guess... 

[Peter Shattock]

As others have said "nice project"

Great to see another fast 1776 in the making. I really do think its an excellent combination which is relatively cheap, strong, easy to fit in the car. It will certainly be capable of being plenty fast enough for a street car. I'm sure you can make the 12's if you have the right gear ratios and the car is not to heavy.

Again as others have said its a nice looking car too, I like the stance / wheel tire combo.

Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to see how you get on, but you are off to a great start with those heads!

ps I cheated mine is a 1795cc now. So a bit more hamster like than a mouse motor. The best time I ran when it was a 1776 was an 11.92 if I remember correctly, and it would run 11.9's consistently. I ran many 12's over a time of about 6 years, so I'm sure you can do it and still keep it as a very street friendly reliable car, and there is a lot to be said for that! 

Have fun

Peter

[JS]

"Cheap" is indeed relative, Peter. 

[Anders]

Thanks for the kind comments guys and thanks for sharing Peter!
This doesn't count as cheap in my book,  but as you said everything is relative. :-)

Hope to be able to drive it on the street quite a bit, excited to see what 12.5 in compression does to the driveability and longevity of the engine.

Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?

Porsche pattern Minilites I guess... 

Jupp, you're right on  the money. :-)

[Peter Shattock]

"Cheap" is indeed relative, Peter. 

Fair point and "relative" is the important word here! I appreciate none of the is cheap and the truth is all this is a rather ridiculous waste of money!

I know those heads will not have been cheap but if you are going to spend big money on an engine and you want to make power that's. The place to spend it. Stick your IDA's on top and that's the inlet side of the combustion side of things done. Get the right cam in there and a suitable exhaust and you have a very capable arangement. The rest of the engine then just needs to be good enough to keep it all in one price.

Look at the mouse motor thread again and check out the parts list expensive parts where they are needed elsewhere dare I say cheap again!

I think you will have a really stout little motor, with plenty of potential for improvement if you want to.

I had some of the best driving and times in the garage improving my old 1776 motor. The good news is the new owner has a similar plan to just nibble away with small improvements to get the best from something most people pass by on the way to bigger and "better" things.

I think you're going to have a lot of fun!

[Anders]

Hi again guys,
Back from the states after a nice couple of weeks in california and wisconsin.
Picked up some parts along the way too to get this project going again.

Had to delay the balancing of the crank since I did not have the pulley yet,
now that it's here I hope to drop the crank assembly of during this week.

Other than that the deck height has been measured, 11.89mm is a bit to much so the
sylinders have to be machined down about 10.89mm. That way I'll end up with around 1mm deck height,
or as some crazy people would say; 0.04".

The sylinders have been delivered to Erik, the 'go to guy' when it comes to machining parts in this area, and I hope
to get it back soon.

When I get the stuff back I plan on doing some case porting, before starting on bearing clearance and other phun things.

This is probably very blasphemous of me but I rented a car in the states and thought I would give some american muscle a try,
after all I was in america. Ended up getting an upgrade from the dodge challenger r/t I originaly rented to the Camaro SS.
I must say that I really liked it, at least driving it, and the 426 american ponies in the front was more than able to send me sideways through some intersections.