12sec 1776 challenge

[Anders]

..
I know those heads will not have been cheap but if you are going to spend big money on an engine and you want to make power that's. The place to spend it. Stick your IDA's on top and that's the inlet side of the combustion side of things done. Get the right cam in there and a suitable exhaust and you have a very capable arangement. The rest of the engine then just needs to be good enough to keep it all in one price.

Look at the mouse motor thread again and check out the parts list expensive parts where they are needed elsewhere dare I say cheap again!
..

I agree Peter, a good 1776 short block is relatively cheap to build.
A decent 69 CW crank doesn't cost much these days and if it weren't for the JE pistons in my engine cylinder and pistons from mahle not that pricey.
On top of that you save some money on machining of the case for clearance with longer stroke etc.

I recon it will be a ton of fun on the street, hope I get to drive it this summer or at least get it ready for SCC.

[Zach Gomulka]

What's the story on those pistons? Short rods as well??

[Anders]

Hi Zach,
The pistons are JE made after JPM's specifications. They are shorter and lighter than Mahle and the wrist pin have been moved about 10mm closer to the top.
Other than that they have gas ports and extra material on one side to accommodate deep valve pockets.

The rods i'm using is cb super race @ 5.400", which I believe is fairly close to stock length.

When the engine is finished I expect it to be close to 30mm narrower than stock.

[Flow]

I love your car !! Nice choice of wheels, really inspiring 

[wolfswest]

Hi Zach,
The pistons are JE made after JPM's specifications. They are shorter and lighter than Mahle and the wrist pin have been moved about 10mm closer to the top.
Other than that they have gas ports and extra material on one side to accommodate deep valve pockets.

The rods i'm using is cb super race @ 5.400", which I believe is fairly close to stock length.

When the engine is finished I expect it to be close to 30mm narrower than stock.

What about the cooling tin?  30mm is a lot! 

[Anders]

Thanks Flow! Glad you like it.. 

What about the cooling tin?  30mm is a lot! 

If you're asking if I have to shorten the tin as well, then the answer is yes
Don't know how yet. I'll cross that bridge when I get the cylinders back.

I suppose the cylinder tin is pretty much straight forward, but the fan housing could be a little worse.
Guess I'll have to cut the sides and tuck it a bit inward to get the appropriate air flow.

Anyhow, weighed the pistons today (thanks Erik). Pretty happy with the weight straight from JE
and with some mix and match with the wrist pins I got it down to a difference of 0.3g at the most.

I recon that is close enough and good to go.

weights with pins, were as follow:

1: 412,0g
2: 412,1g
3: 412,0g
4: 412,3g

[Erlend / bug66]

I had the same with the mahle pistons in my 1915. Mix and match with rods, and I got it down to within 0,2g I think overall.

[Peter Shattock]

'I suppose the cylinder tin is pretty much straight forward, but the fan housing could be a little worse.
Guess I'll have to cut the sides and tuck it a bit inward to get the appropriate air flow'

Hi Anders,

I had much the same problem and my engine must be a very similar width. I got the wide 30 horse style CSP fan shroud to fit with only a small dimple required with a hammer. I did also have to file the side of the carb (IDA) on the 1 and 2 side but once I had done that it was all good.

The cylinder tin was a bit more work, but I kept the two bolt holes to the head in basically the stock locations and shortened every thing the case end which worked fine, but as with most jobs like this it is a bit time consuming!

The funny thing was that it gets a bit close with the engine seal gasket reaching the cylinder tin. Mine does so I suspect it will be OK with yours too, but to be honest it was never something I considered until I came to fit it, but luckily it was OK.

The front and rear tin also gets a bit fiddly but noting that cant be sorted with a bit of minor fab work.

I do have some pictures of mine, but I can never make them small enough to post, but I'll have another go.

Glad to see you are making progress, I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on!

Good luck

Peter

[Anders]

That is very useful information Peter, thanks!
If you can't shrink them I would be very grateful if you could send them to me on email! anderssw@gmail.com 
I'm sure they would be very helpful.

I'm using the old shroud from my previous motor. It's a late 30hp one, so it's about the same as yours I think.

[Peter Shattock]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Will it work?

[Peter Shattock]

That's a first for me getting a picture on here!

One thing I forgot to mention and you might be able to see it in the picture my carbs do lean out a little and every little helps!

This might be a better picture.

Regards

Peter

[leec]

What a great looking engine

[goose]

what kind of alternator is that?

[Anders]

Looking good Peter!! Thanks for posting.

Is your tin powder coated with wrinkle finish? If so, our engines are going to look very similar. 

I can see the carbs leaning slightly outwards, don't know how mine will be.
did you cut into the underside of the shroud as well?  I'm guessing it got a bit wide when you shortened the cylinder tin.

Erlend: What kind of rods did you use? If it was CB's Super Race was there a big difference in weight on each rod?

[Anders]

Peter, I remembered something about my manifolds that will help out with the clearance issue.
They are inverted, meaning the carb will face the other way.
Hopefully that should provide me with enough space as the fuel inlet and bowl will be facing the side of the engine compartment instead.

Did get something done this weekend. Fellow garage buddy BeetleBug was kind enough to lend me some tools, thanks for the help btw, and got me started on porting the case.
This was my first time doing something like this and I was unsure of how much material I could safely remove from the case, so the result might not be the best ever.
It should however flow a little more than before and every little helps ey?

Any feedback or pointers would be appreciated, I've read the JMR thread on internal case mods and tried to follow some of the stuff he was doing.

Crank is back from balancing as well, things are falling into place.. 




 

[Peter Shattock]

Anders good to see you're still making progress.

I was in the garage tonight and found the 50mm long bit of carb linkage I cut off from my old linkage. Bearing in mind this came off a hi CR motor with a slightly shorter than stock rod. clearly the shorter manifolds account for part of this but it will be a narrow engine! As you say the carbs reversed will certainly help.

I didn't say before I haven't had any cooling issues at all so I don't think you have anything to fear just make sure the tin fits well and assuming you run an external cooler with some fans you will have all the temp control you need if mine is anything to go by.

Goose the generator, is just a regular 12v 6v size with a cover on the connectors.

Keep going!

Peter

[Erlend / bug66]

All was within a few 1/10 of a gram.

Yes. 5.4" CB Superduper race 

[Anders]

Hello folks,

and belated happy 4th to you all.

Last week Folke and I took a road trip down south to visit Jon and his fabulous measuring tools (Thanks for all the help Jon!).
We spent the evening blueprinting our cases and they both came out pretty good! 
Mine was just 1/100mm off at some areas, so not something I'll worry about.

I've been told that the new mag cases are crap and that they will need a align bore after just 500 miles
so I'll write down all the measurements in my diary and that way I'll know how much the case gets worn down over time.

Regarding the topic of cooling; I'm running an external oil cooler from cb, aka the "atomic-cool". (With a name like that you know it's going to be good!)
Made some brackets the other day so I can fit it next to the gearbox on the left hand side, people don't call me Jesse James 'master fabricator' for nothing.....


..actually people don't call me that at all, as the pictures might indicate..

[Anders]

howdy ho,

I got a couple of things done last week,
Picked up the cylinders from Erik after he had machined them down to correct length.
In addition to that he helped me sort out the ring gap (Thanks!).

Received a package from summit as well, with everything I need to complete the fuel system.
I'm going to run a return style system with -an6 hardline both ways with a mallory pump and regulator.
Don't know where I will run the lines yet, but I think I will try to run them through the tunnel. Time will show.

Also got around to adding a couple of oil squirters to my rods with my "high precision" angle grinder, turned out ok I guess.

[Jon]

Love the return style fuel system. But the return line should ideally be a size bigger.
This is a GREAT read: http://www.centuryperformance.com/forum/showthread.php/55-Fuelish-Tendencies

[Anders]

That is a great read indeed!! 
Ideally I should run a bigger return line to avoid any real pressure building up there,
but as I run a slightly oversized feed line, for my needs, I hope that the return is big enough.

Looking at the link above and the drag racing system mentioned, I should use one return style regulator and one dead head.
Is it possible to create a loop underneath the tank with the return regulator and the line going straight back into the tank,
and to have just the feed line going back to the engine and to the normal dead head regulator?

Would that be good enough? Does the length of the return line matter much?

[Jon]

Run the duals all the way, and skip the deadhead.

[kb]

Run the duals all the way, and skip the deadhead.

That's what I did.. Ran pressure/return lines all the way from the tank to the regulator which was mounted at the firewall.. I don't really see the point of the deadahead regulator after the return-regulator..

[Anders]

Thanks for the info, I'll run them both all the way and throw out the dead head regulator

[Anders]

Last week I assembled the crank with rods, gears and bearings. (I'm using old glyco steel backed bearings for the case/crank and old KS for the rods).
I've upgraded the ARP bolts to carrillo bolts which I've been told is a better bolt.

Bought myself a stretch gauge and measured how much I would need to torque the bolts to get the appropriate amount of stretch.
Lubed them all up and did this in the bench first and measured them at different torque settings, I ended up needing 52NM (38ft.lb) to get 0.15mm (0.006") stretch.
That should be within the specs provided by carrillo as the stretch range is 0.130 to 0.180mm with max torque of 54NM.

After that I started on assembling the short block.
Borrowed a lifter from Jon which he had machined a brass rod into, this was of great help when I was degreeing in the camshaft.
I ended up mounting the gear straight up with the lobe center seperation @ 108 degrees. Johannes told me that everything from 106-108 was fine.

Fought the famous battle of the oil pickup as well and got a new csp extra long pickup installed. Now everything is ready to to get bolted together.

[Jon]

I'm loving it! Good to see you are buying tools... 

[Anders]

Thanks! Can't keep borrowing from others rest of my life
And shopping decent quality tools is a fun way to pass the time anyhow... maybe not for the wallet tho.

Yesterday I took some time off work to finish up the short block.
Next stop; long block 

BTW. I'm using bugpack 8mm race studs, like these http://www.piersideparts.net/BP4567-20.html.
Does anyone know if I'm supposed to use the same amount of torque on these as the original ones? (25Nm)

[Erlend / bug66]

Looking good When do you fire it up?

[Anders]

MAYBE next week.. but that is a big maybe.
Need to sort out the pushrod length, piston/valve clearance, end play and cooling tin.

after that it should be good to go...

[Erlend / bug66]

Let me know if you make it next month. Would be cool to check it out