type3 engine

[nicolas]

i am currently building a type3 engine.
my fastback was fitted a few years ago with a 1776, but it had some issues and needed a rebuild. things didn't move as fast as is hoped and i opted to finish my 2276 (type1) and fit this in the meantime. all worked out ok, but the problem was that i really wanted a type3 engine in the fastback and not a type1 setup.

so fast forward a few years and now i have started a rebuild/ build of the type3 engine. i still need to find more time to work on the engine, but i hope to make some progress the next few months and hopefully be able to share some driving experience in the near future.

here are some specs.

78x90.5 = 2007
heads are the old 043's with 40X35 valves 47cc
DCNF carbs on berg type3 manifolds
fk44 cam with 1.25's maybe later 1.4's (we'll see first how the 1.25's work)
CR will be 10.25
deck hight is 1.15mm
type3 cooling and all under the lid

[modnrod]

Sounds like a nice street package, lots of torque!

Are there options now for a "fix" or replacement of the Type3 fan, and RPMs? Is it still a good idea to keep it under 6000 to stop them from coming apart?

[nicolas]

yep still under 6000. that is indeed a limitation to the combo, but that is why i opted for that cam and the 1.25's.

i am aiming at an engine that will pull from idle to 6000 max. i have come to the conclusion that a street car actually never really goes a lot of time above 5000 rpms... (in normal and spirited use).

[nicolas]

i have a question regarding the use of my oil pump. is bigger better. i was thinking of using a 26mm pump instead of a 30mm mostly because it will bave 4mm more clearance to fit the cooling tin and also quite a few people seem to think it will be more then enough for a street engine...

also what about the use or the discardment of the original oil cooler? i can go both ways still. the external is allready mounted on the car, but is there a benefit?

[nicolas]

I use a 26mm with my t3 2110.  I have driven it from Oregon to Missouri and back, Oregon to the top of Pikes Peak and back and it has never starved for oil.  Don't tell anyone, but I don't even run a deep sump.  My set up has a w120 with 1.25s and I never, ever see 6k rpm on the road.  There's just no need for it. 
I also run the DCNFs on my set up.  The biggest issues with these that I have seen is dialing them in.  I get about 25mpg (US gallons)  with them running a bit rich.   I heard stories about them not working around corners... HOGWASH!  I drove up Pikes Peak with them and didn't have issues!

thank you. never had issues with them either. but i didn't ride pikes peak...  as for setting them up, i think they are as easy to tune as IDF's, they do run smoother on my old engine (1776).

[nicolas]

here is a link to 'porsche power' topic i started, but it seems this topic is more focused on my own type3

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,22392.0.html

i also must say the CR eventually was indeed around 10, but i can't find if it was 9.8 or 10.3. it doesn't really matter.

but i still ask myself when you need an oil cooler and when not. there must be a rule, but i can't figure it out, just trail and error. my engine for now has one and drives on 10-15 mile drives just fine (oil temp wise) where as previous engines ran hotter with less CR (they were different combos though)
so that is OK, i will probably need to switch on the fan on longer trips and more highway cruising.

so last wednesday we went for a drive and it looks like the clutch is gone for sure. i have a replacement daikin to solve that problem and i will also install a new trow-out bearing as this one makes some noise.
i am also thinking of installing an MSD, mainly because i have a rev limiter in it. and see what it does. the setup will use a 009 with electric module.

there are some small points that need attention to fully be ready for new adventures. the 4 point seat belts will be replaced by 3 point ones (and regain the backseat again) finish the center caps, make some air filters (that is a new project as it will be some air box that lets fresh air in instead of that of the warm engine bay, fix my headlights as i can't align them and pass MOT fully, some more small finishing bits and bobs.

[j-f]

If you use a thermostat, I think extra cooling is always safe. On longer trips it will sure help.

[modnrod]

.......... make some air filters (that is a new project as it will be some air box that lets fresh air in instead of that of the warm engine bay..........

My old hotrod Square I had a 2.5" tube fitted each side through the side bulkheads to draw air from under the rear cooling vents.
One more option. 

[nicolas]

update!

well i have an update for the last 6-8 months of driving the car.

the cooling issues are cured by fitting a oilcooler with fan, but it never needs to be turned on. so all runs pretty cool now.
i have had numerous issues with my clutch though. first i fitted an old stage one pressure plate (3 finger style) as i like those vintage parts, but the diaphragm didn't hold up and i burned clutch and disc when i went to Bug-in. but i mentioned it before, it runs great.
so i picked up a new disc and stage one clutch and took care of a new seal behind the flywheel and ran that.
new problem, the gearbox made more noise then a tractor and when i went to Budel in Holland, the gearbox was broken, out did it come all one week before DDD. i was a bit diapointed as this is THE meeting i like to attend with my car, but it seems i am missing out on it time and time again.
so out comes the engine and box, i may have told here on the forum that i kept ruining the big bearings that hold the diff, so i rechecked everything with all the measuring tools i could find at work, read up on how much preload was needed and with all the checking and measuring it came out that i had about 1mm too much shims fitted (too much preload)
i was lucky to find some shims at work and i made the adjustments and fitted it all together again, this time i knew who i could blame if i goes wrong.
so far after regular drives from 5 to 30kms around the village and country roads (no highway driving yet) for about 1000kms it seems to be more quiet and it even seems to hold up.
now for christmas i got myself a LM1 meter and i was able between the chistmas dinners and new years drinks to fit the bong on the exhaust.
i do still have an issue with popping in the exhaust at idle (either vacuum leak or the carbs) this needs to be addressed

and a more practical or inpractical inconvenience: how do you start your car? i need to blip the trottle about 5-7 times when the electic pump has primed the fuel system and then i can start it, but this may need to be done 3 - 5 times to get it running. i suspect that every time the floatbowls are 'cooked' empty from the engine heat because of the low type3, and it starts right up if it only sits for 10 minutes, or am i missing something here or is there a cure for.

[alex d]

pics or it didn't happen!

[nicolas]

pics or it didn't happen!

[nicolas]

[nicolas]

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[nicolas]

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[nicolas]

here are some pics of the car with all the mud on it. it looks a bit better now as i was cleaning it this morning. maybe the first pictures with the (raised  ) front susspension and new bigger front and rear tires i have been running since this year. the low profile 165/65 tyres at the front were too low to pass MOT here and i found these 185's which are bigger fill the arches better and are a real upgrade performance wise. the rears are 195's (modern treads, yes, but not too 'in your face')

anyway the engine bay still looks a bit messy with all the wires from the MSD and the coil not being at its right place because the MSD wasn't working. so it is all a regular coil and compufire setup for now.

i also show the oillines i had made to go to the cooler and engine. very happy with the fit. expensive yes, but for me it was a good investment. no leaks, easy fitting and all made like i wanted it.

also i wanted to show how i fitted a new traction bar, same idea based on a late model bar with all the brackets and rubbers and it works good, firmer, but not solid mounted.

also a picture of the bong welded in the header, hopefully connected to the LM1 soon to make it all better.

[j-f]

update!

well i have an update for the last 6-8 months of driving the car.

the cooling issues are cured by fitting a oilcooler with fan, but it never needs to be turned on. so all runs pretty cool now.
i have had numerous issues with my clutch though. first i fitted an old stage one pressure plate (3 finger style) as i like those vintage parts, but the diaphragm didn't hold up and i burned clutch and disc when i went to Bug-in. but i mentioned it before, it runs great.
so i picked up a new disc and stage one clutch and took care of a new seal behind the flywheel and ran that.
new problem, the gearbox made more noise then a tractor and when i went to Budel in Holland, the gearbox was broken, out did it come all one week before DDD. i was a bit diapointed as this is THE meeting i like to attend with my car, but it seems i am missing out on it time and time again.
so out comes the engine and box, i may have told here on the forum that i kept ruining the big bearings that hold the diff, so i rechecked everything with all the measuring tools i could find at work, read up on how much preload was needed and with all the checking and measuring it came out that i had about 1mm too much shims fitted (too much preload)
i was lucky to find some shims at work and i made the adjustments and fitted it all together again, this time i knew who i could blame if i goes wrong.
so far after regular drives from 5 to 30kms around the village and country roads (no highway driving yet) for about 1000kms it seems to be more quiet and it even seems to hold up.
now for christmas i got myself a LM1 meter and i was able between the chistmas dinners and new years drinks to fit the bong on the exhaust.
i do still have an issue with popping in the exhaust at idle (either vacuum leak or the carbs) this needs to be addressed

and a more practical or inpractical inconvenience: how do you start your car? i need to blip the trottle about 5-7 times when the electic pump has primed the fuel system and then i can start it, but this may need to be done 3 - 5 times to get it running. i suspect that every time the floatbowls are 'cooked' empty from the engine heat because of the low type3, and it starts right up if it only sits for 10 minutes, or am i missing something here or is there a cure for.

I don't know if you run a fuel pressure regulator but too much pressure will overload the bowl in the carb and "leak" in causing popping. Check the float level too, both close AND fully open. I have the same starting problem on my 66 Dodge Dart. I need to check if the carb does not empty itself in the engine, flooding it and causing cold start problems. An hop up engine does not have the amenities a stock one got, like choke, manifold heater, vaacum dizzy etc, maybe it one of the cons we have to deal with 

[Zach Gomulka]

Happy to see my old carbs still at work

[modnrod]

I have the same starting problem on my 66 Dodge Dart. I need to check if the carb does not empty itself in the engine, flooding it and causing cold start problems.

If your Dart has a 225Slant with a 2BBL Carter BBD, change your fuel needle and seat (even if it looks fine, they "groove" the seat), and then polish both your main needles with 1500W/D. Because the needles will be marginally thinner, sometimes you need to bend the mounting tab 0.5mm lower to compensate.
Also make sure the check balls and seats are perfect.

[j-f]

I have the same starting problem on my 66 Dodge Dart. I need to check if the carb does not empty itself in the engine, flooding it and causing cold start problems.

If your Dart has a 225Slant with a 2BBL Carter BBD, change your fuel needle and seat (even if it looks fine, they "groove" the seat), and then polish both your main needles with 1500W/D. Because the needles will be marginally thinner, sometimes you need to bend the mounting tab 0.5mm lower to compensate.
Also make sure the check balls and seats are perfect.

Thanks, It did have a slant6 but a single barrel (It's a '65, I did a typo saying it's a 66.). I suspect a problem like that and just have to get around it. Hey, it's running like that after all 

[nicolas]

i'll check them anyway as it maybe time just to do a regular check up on them.
and yes your old carbs are alive and kicking in this engine as well. i did a rejetting when i build it, just by deduction and it runs good (except for the popping) and yes JF maybe it is something i have to deal with because it has no choke and vacuum,… don't get me wrong, i actually like the procedure to start it up, it feels like i need to 'work' with the car and not just use it as a tool. but i see others not really have the problem, so maybe it is something that could be minimized.

[Zach Gomulka]

My starting procedure when I had those carbs (actually every VW I've ever owned or driven) was very simple. One quick full pump of the throttle, then crack open the throttle slightly while turning the key.

[Felix/DFL]

Hey Nicolas,

fasty is looking good as always!
Sad that you missed DDD...

As said there must be something wrong with your carbs, the poping even points in the same direction.
Maybe srew of the carb top after a cool down to see if there is fuel in it.
Maybe there is even something going wrong with yor ignition at low rev`s...

My start procedure is mainly equal as Zach`s, but only a little pump at the throttle before key turn.
That was so with the 40 IDF (no choke) and is so with the IDA`s. Engine get`s in the idle mod really fast.

You may want to place that coil next to the generator (to the left of were it was on some models). There it dosent get the direct rising heat from cyl. 3/4.
Coil position at my old 1776ccm setup:


Best greetings, Felix

[nicolas]

hello,

yes i do need to check the carbs. it bugs me and there IS something wrong.
i'll get to it. 

as for the coil, i used to have my orginal setup just like this, i use the orignal bracket, but when i was testing the MSD i had the coil out of the enginespace alltogether, but like i posted, it didn't work, so i quickly installed the coil again on the engine (1 screw)  and i looks a mess.

thanks for chiming in already, now i just need to get going and clean it all up a bit. updates will follow.

ps do you have a closeup on your beatherbox? as i like what i can't see 

[Felix/DFL]

Hi Nicolas,

here is a pic of the breather setup (1.).
Two small empi boxes with wrinkle mounted at the back, had to make a oil drain back line for the lh-side as it filled up with oil...
Wasn`t happy with that combo, as the oil fumes came into the car athougth the seperate wall to cabine is sealed. They found a way...
Now I go with a hose left and right around the engine, connect each side the to the valve cover and then to a CSP breather box above the gearbox. At the top exit a hose way down with a k&N filter, works perfect and no more oil fume.

Greetings, Felix

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[nicolas]

thanks for the pictures i will look into it and make my engine bay look a bit better looking. 

and hopefully i can lend the supersonic carb cleaner from someone at work, so i can clean the carbs as well.