Old Skool 1679cc Cal Look Engines - What Spec's???

[Jesse/DVK]

cool jesse, we should exchange some ideas at KWF in january.
sander, my plans have not changed from the last time i posted them. and i'm still waiting to hear from abc tuning about my case...
for the rest i'm merely collecting parts 

I always like a good chat, but I thought you wanted to build a 1915? I'm just looking around for a 1300 or 1600. But i'm currently busy with school etc. So I think it will be december/januari before I start with searching.

[Jon]

Well, first ting first, it has to have full cooling and run on normal pump fuel, but the CR will still be up there, no reason to give away horsepower.
The aim is to use money were it counts and leave well enough alone. Was the plan, but its still early days and nothing is carved in stone, got to have time to build it to.

About output, how much flow/velocity can I get out of a pair of welded normal heads? Jeff D, Udo or someone, for about 1500$ when I supply heads? And how much flow can this small capacity "support" or is this line of thinking wrong?

SOB what do you think about this, didn't you build something like this a few years ago? ...was Vera the name?

[BeetleBug]

Well, first ting first, it has to have full cooling and run on normal pump fuel, but the CR will still be up there, no reason to give away horsepower.
The aim is to use money were it counts and leave well enough alone. Was the plan, but its still early days and nothing is carved in stone, got to have time to build it to.

About output, how much flow/velocity can I get out of a pair of welded normal heads? Jeff D, Udo or someone, for about 1500$ when I supply heads? And how much flow can this small capacity "support" or is this line of thinking wrong?

SOB what do you think about this, didn't you build something like this a few years ago? ...was Vera the name?

I think a this is worth a own thread! How much power it is possible to get from a 1600ccm street engine built on a budget...

[Zach Gomulka]

My old 1600 dynoed at 93hp, belt on. It was a daily driver and I would consider that to be at the ragged edge as far as streetability is concerned. With what I know now, Id like to build a clone of that engine to try and achieve 100hp, with more low end torque as well.

But lets get back on topic guys... 1600's arent cal look

[Jesse/DVK]

About the 1679cc, is their really a big difference between the machine-ins and the slip-ins?

[louisb]

About the 1679cc, is their really a big difference between the machine-ins and the slip-ins?

Cylinders are thicker with the machine-ins.

--louis

[Jesse/DVK]

I already know that   But what I mean, are the slip ins running hotter or something? This will be my first motor so I don't know much about it yet.

[louisb]

The thinner cylinders may (will?) distort quicker and allow for ring sealing failure. Then you get blow by and higher oil consumption. Go with machine in unless you are building a drag motor that will get torn down often.

--louis

[BeetleBug]

My old 1600 dynoed at 93hp, belt on. It was a daily driver and I would consider that to be at the ragged edge as far as streetability is concerned. With what I know now, Id like to build a clone of that engine to try and achieve 100hp, with more low end torque as well.

But lets get back on topic guys... 1600's arent cal look

Question for you; what will it take to make a 1600ccm cal look? The right parts and plenty of power? I want to know this and I think it is really interesting if JHU or someone else would build a potent, small engine. Thing is, I`m not sure if it worth it - power wise. How much power should a budget 1600ccm engine make before it get interesting? Everyone is now building 2332`s ++ and the bigger, the better seems to be "the thing" right now.

I for one would have loved to have a mouse engine if it is possible to get some real power out of it without spending a fortune.

Best rgs
BB

[louisb]

My old 1600 dynoed at 93hp, belt on. It was a daily driver and I would consider that to be at the ragged edge as far as streetability is concerned. With what I know now, Id like to build a clone of that engine to try and achieve 100hp, with more low end torque as well.

But lets get back on topic guys... 1600's arent cal look

Question for you; what will it take to make a 1600ccm cal look? The right parts and plenty of power? I want to know this and I think it is really interesting if JHU or someone else would build a potent, small engine. Thing is, I`m not sure if it worth it - power wise. How much power should a budget 1600ccm engine make before it get interesting? Everyone is now building 2332`s ++ and the bigger, the better seems to be "the thing" right now.

I for one would have loved to have a mouse engine if it is possible to get some real power out of it without spending a fortune.

Best rgs
BB

The right heads, the right carbs, the right cam I think you could get 100 - 110. If you are willing to run race gas I would think much higher. Depends on how streetable you want it to be.

--louis

[Sander/DVK]

Anyone remember this topic?
The car has a 1679cc John Mayer engine.

Specs:

1679cc Engine Specification

AS41 New crankcase
88mm Thick Wall Mahle Pistons and Cylinders
69mm counterweighted crankshaft
200mm, 12lb, 8 doweled flywheel
Engle FK8 camshaft
JMR 044 cylinder heads (40mmx35.5mm), polished and ported
Autocraft 1.4:1 rockers
Berg chromoloy pushrods
Dual 48 IDA carbs on tall manifolds
Berg 26 mm oil pump
Scat deep sump
Berg 440e Equaliser crank pulley
Kennedy 1700lb pressure plate
15/8” Phoenix merged header
2 ¼” muffler (A1)
HP1 Fram external oil filter
009 Distributor

130 bhp@6,000 rpm recorded on the JMR dyno May 1997


Thats pretty awesome

[BeetleBug]

The right heads, the right carbs, the right cam I think you could get 100 - 110. If you are willing to run race gas I would think much higher. Depends on how streetable you want it to be.
--louis

Thank you for your answer Louis. If 100 - 110 is max I would not be satisfied and I do think it is possible to take out more.

130 bhp@6,000 rpm recorded on the JMR dyno May 1997

Yes, pretty awesome..... BUT is this the limit on a street engine/pump gas?

What about the "magic" number of 100hp per liter? Is 160hp possible when building a engine like the one described by JHU? Street engine - built on a tight budget - and all the homework done?

With all this talk about high reving mouse motors, I feel the urge to have a go. If I stick with a 69 crank and 85.5 cyls, and some big (enugh) carbs, and get a good head job on some 42x32 044, and by good I'm thinking about something around 1500$. And by dooing all the homework, tuned exhaust for the combo, adjusted intake lenghts and such. The idea is to use the money where everyone say it counts and see where it takes me. And If I at the same time could give a nod to the early boys in style thought... what could be better? any thoughts?

[Diederick/DVK]

yup, very much so.
it's in this ultra cool 67




but i'm guessing monkiboy wants to go even further than just that  

[Jim Ratto]

Hi Lee,

Did I read somewhere you want to run an FK87 in a 1700? In my opinion, that's not a good idea, unless this engine is going to a drag rail. If you're thinking of running the 1700 on the street, in a sedan, the FK87 is much too aggressive of a cam. It's a wild cam for a 2200cc + engine, so imagine how it would run in a little 1700. Here's a story to help describe what it will be like. A guy I know put together a 1914 for some race series, drag racing. His car was somewhat lightened 1965 Bug, close ratio 4.37:1 box, no interior, T bars. 1914 was 11.0:1, 42 x 37 welded big egg-shapped intake ports,35cc chambers, Engle FK87, 1.4's, 48IDAs with 40mm vents, 1-3/4" header with big Borla muffler. I set carbs up with 170 main, F7, 205 air, 65 idles. MSD distributor and 6AL box, 32 advance. Tuned car and took around block in his neighborhood. Absolutely undriveable under 4500rpm...I mean nothing there except a lot of intake garbling and burping, and then once you crested 5000rpm, it kind of smoothed out, and then would zing to 8000+. So from 5500 to 7500 or so it was fast. 8000rpm was going to break something. So in this 1900+cc engine it had less than a 2000 rpm power band and NOTHING under 4500. A well tuned 1776 with Kadrons would have beat me around the block. If you need to imagine what it would be like, and want to experience it... pull a plug wire off one plug on your Buggy, and go drive around and then imagine that until 5000rpm, then put the plug wire back on....BANG. In a 1700 the FK87 will probably come on at 6200-6500 and go until rods, springs, pushrods, rings all fail.

For street sedan, a bad tempered 1679 that I would build would consist of:

88 x 69
9.5:1
Rimco super rods
Engle 125 or Engle K8
40 x 35.5 small port heads (see pic of those DDS heads elsewhere)
1-1/2" merged
12lb flywheel
heavy pulley (help with little motor "keep going" on freeway and up hills)
44mm + carbs (48IDAs with 36mm chokes would be very cammy)
whatever distributor

If the motor is tuned to be happy and has good springs in it, it should go good from 3000-7000, with a good shove at about 4200-4500.

[Jim Ratto]

Question for you; what will it take to make a 1600ccm cal look?
[/quote]

a set of 94's and an 82mm crank. 

[BeetleBug]

Question for you; what will it take to make a 1600ccm cal look?

a set of 94's and an 82mm crank. 
[/quote]

LOL - why am I not suprised? A angry, little screamer behind there would do it for me.

[louisb]

How about this except with a set of IDAs w/ 32 vents. (And dual port heads.) Throw a 120 or 125 in it and go to town. 

--louis

[Jon]

Small engines don't nesicerely have to be primadonas, Jim.
Listen to this little 69x94 with a nice FK87 with carbs....
Sounds better than most two point threes I have ever heard...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs</a>

This is what I want.. how about you Lee??!!

[Sander/DVK]

Is that realy a 1914?? Sounds realy good!
And 155Kw is not bad

[folkevogn]

that is realy a 1914ccm and its not 155kW it 175kW!!!!

[Jon]

Please forget the KW of this engine, it's beside the point I'm trying to make.
JPM, the guy in the car told me I dont even need to go this wild on the cam for a hot "mouse"...

So you get more of both according to him, more middle and more top...

[Sander/DVK]

Not bad!

The engine has 155Kw on the backwheels. 175Kw at the crank

[folkevogn]

my bad....thought you had crooked eyes

BTW the engine didn`t performe at its full potential due to the throttle wire beeing stretched and not giving the carbs full throttle. It has dynoed 182kW at the flywheel, before and after this video was made.
And it REALLY sounds crisp all the way!!very cool engine!!

[Lee.C]

Small engines don't nesicerely have to be primadonas, Jim.
Listen to this little 69x94 with a nice FK87 with carbs....
Sounds better than most two point threes I have ever heard...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs</a>

This is what I want.. how about you Lee??!!

Don't worry I get your point dude and YES I want one that sounds like that 

Also thanks for the info Jim all good points are taken on board don't worry 

BUT like I have said my main aim is to run 13's and I am sure that I can get it "Fairly" streetable plus I sort of like the idea of it being a bit of an animal to drive 

[Jim Ratto]

Small engines don't nesicerely have to be primadonas, Jim.
Listen to this little 69x94 with a nice FK87 with carbs....
Sounds better than most two point threes I have ever heard...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/lyvqo8HHZxs</a>

This is what I want.. how about you Lee??!!

Don't worry I get your point dude and YES I want one that sounds like that 

Also thanks for the info Jim all good points are taken on board don't worry 

BUT like I have said my main aim is to run 13's and I am sure that I can get it "Fairly" streetable plus I sort of like the idea of it being a bit of an animal to drive 

I like your style Lee... ,

I'm thinking K8 is what you need dude...  remember you need cylinder pressure.

Lighten the car as much as you can and gear it to rev and you'll see 13's. My friend went mid 14's in 1900lb+ car on radials and 8.0:1 1700 with 40IDFs

Another friend went 13.01 in lightened 66 steel sedan, close gears, 4.37:1, MH slicks, KYB shocks, 1776, W125 Engle, 11.5:1, 1.25 rockers, 48IDAs, 1-5/8", MSD ign VP C12, stinger

[Lee.C]

Cylinder pressure - how about 10:1

And LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of "Blueprinting" I will see 13's I PROMISE YOU 

Also it looks like I really started something here with this thread with 87 replies and over 1200 views  Maybe we should start a race series - 1679 WARS 

 

[Jim Ratto]

no wars on the Lounge monki....we're all buddies

[Lee.C]

no wars on the Lounge monki....we're all buddies

yeah I know dude don't worry  It was just a take on that classic book "Gasser Wars" 

But it would be nice to run against a few other 1679's - come on guys I say more mouse motors 

[Zach Gomulka]

I would go more conservative on the cam... 120x1.25, 9:1, 40x35.5, IDA's, yadda yadda yadda. I think even that will be a bear to drive on the street given the 294 duration and small CC's. Just my opinion, but dont try and build a "world beater". You will spend more time working on the car rather than driving it, and chances are you wont beat the world, either And I bet you anything that the combo I listed above will still get you 13's.

Maybe Im just getting old

[Zach Gomulka]

Anyone remember this topic?
The car has a 1679cc John Mayer engine.

Specs:

1679cc Engine Specification

AS41 New crankcase
88mm Thick Wall Mahle Pistons and Cylinders
69mm counterweighted crankshaft
200mm, 12lb, 8 doweled flywheel
Engle FK8 camshaft
JMR 044 cylinder heads (40mmx35.5mm), polished and ported
Autocraft 1.4:1 rockers
Berg chromoloy pushrods
Dual 48 IDA carbs on tall manifolds
Berg 26 mm oil pump
Scat deep sump
Berg 440e Equaliser crank pulley
Kennedy 1700lb pressure plate
15/8” Phoenix merged header
2 ¼” muffler (A1)
HP1 Fram external oil filter
009 Distributor

130 bhp@6,000 rpm recorded on the JMR dyno May 1997


Thats pretty awesome

How much compression??