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Lee.C
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« on: July 30, 2007, 01:34:51 am » |
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Hey Guys - Here I go again with more question for you   I am planning a full on Old Skool 1679cc (1700) IDA'd motor for my new project - And before everyone says it I know I can build a much bigger/better engine "These Days" But I think that a well built and highly "Blue Printed" mouse motor should be capable of High 13's maybe more Lets face it ALOT of these 1679's were built "back in the day" and they ran some pretty good times including a 14.1 by Aronson I already have: - Case - 48 Weber IDA's (37 venturis) - Berg 3/8 Cromoloy push rods - Tall IDA manifolds - Scat mini D port Heads 40x37.5 with dual valve springs - 1 5/8 Merged Header I have also been reading about "mank" old 67 which he just sold with a 1679cc motor in it which was Dyno'd at 130bhp which is AWSOME - so I was thinking with a little bit more "blue Printing" you could up this alittle  Here is the Specs: 1679cc Engine Specification AS41 New crankcase 88mm Thick Wall Mahle Pistons and Cylinders 69mm counterweighted crankshaft 200mm, 12lb, 8 doweled flywheel Engle FK8 camshaft JMR 044 cylinder heads (40mmx35.5mm), polished and ported Autocraft 1.4:1 rockers Berg chromoloy pushrods Dual 48 IDA carbs on tall manifolds Berg 26 mm oil pump Scat deep sump Berg 440e Equaliser crank pulley Kennedy 1700lb pressure plate 15/8” Phoenix merged header 2 ¼” muffler (A1) HP1 Fram external oil filter 009 Distributor So come guys - if you could build your "ULTIMATE" Old Skool 1700 IDA'd motor what would the Specs be  |
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You either "Get It" or you don't......
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Chuck Fryer
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 02:28:33 am » |
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I think you need to swap the cam for an engle 140 and drop the a-1 for dual qp's
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 02:35:56 am » |
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I think you need to swap the cam for an engle 140 and drop the a-1 for dual qp's
w140?  |
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Fastbrit
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 03:30:09 am » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc...  I like your style, Mr Monki  |
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The Ideaman
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 04:39:20 am » |
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During 2000, I bought a motor for the ida's at the pomona swap meet. Story was it came from one of the Volkschancellors cars in the early 80's. yeah, maybe. It was a 1679 with non counterweighted crank and 11/1 compression ratio. Engle 120 cam, ported stock valve heads and a cheap header. Motor had the lightest flywheel I'd seen, a 10 pounder. Case became part of my 2110, and heads were reworked for a 1776 in the future. Heads were cut to 30cc's. Sold the Skat Traks to Dave Conklin for too cheap. I put it together for a while, but never ran it.
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It is the soldier,
Who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped in the flag,
Who allows the protestor to burn the flag.
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63 ripper
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« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 08:03:27 am » |
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2 observations about such a set-up. jetting those IDAs ! and gearbox ratios. having cruised to EBI and back with that 67 it ain't slow |
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JG54
twelve-zeros, back in the day.
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lowfastbus
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 11:09:16 am » |
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I would go for the real 1700cc setup... 74mm crank and 85.5 cyls = 1699cc No clearancing or cutting the case for bigger cyls... Greets Jelle |
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Lee.C
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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 15:40:04 pm » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc... I like your style, Mr Monki I thought you might dude - I will drop you a PM later on tonight I guess great minds think alike |
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You either "Get It" or you don't......
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speedwell
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 15:41:57 pm » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc... i agree with you keith |
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ST DRAGN
Full Member
Posts: 202
More Port. More Gas..Kicks Ass...
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 16:44:19 pm » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc... i agree with you keith The linkage you see there ( one of a kind ) is now in my car. Can you believe that motor was complete w/ EMPI four bolt flange exhaust, was setting in a container for about 37+ years ? |
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Der Kleiner Panzers
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speedwell
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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 17:05:52 pm » |
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waouwww incredible art i 'd like to have a similar engine it's look like so original ( i would like to said that it's look like an engine built by the factory )
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 17:08:18 pm by speedwell »
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Lee.C
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 19:53:20 pm » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc... i agree with you keith I LOVE THAT LINKAGE The linkage you see there ( one of a kind ) is now in my car. Can you believe that motor was complete w/ EMPI four bolt flange exhaust, was setting in a container for about 37+ years ? I LOVE THAT LINKAGE but the manifolds are abit tall and the exhaust ports look a tad small I have also been thinking about Magneto's I fully trust them BUT how many people did actually run them on the street |
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Martin Greaves
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2007, 20:09:32 pm » |
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Lee i would put a Roller cam Engle 100 spec on 102 lobe centers. This work great for the Lauffers.  |
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Hahaha your killing me.........
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Lee.C
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2007, 20:19:56 pm » |
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Lee i would put a Roller cam Engle 100 spec on 102 lobe centers. This work great for the Lauffers. you'll have to forgive me dude but I don't quite get that one |
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Martin Greaves
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2007, 20:21:49 pm » |
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I will keep you thinking a bit longer. |
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Hahaha your killing me.........
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Lee.C
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« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2007, 20:46:48 pm » |
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got your pm dude - i get ya now I think |
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ST DRAGN
Full Member
Posts: 202
More Port. More Gas..Kicks Ass...
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2007, 20:51:11 pm » |
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Old School (Oh how I hate how that term is used today!) 1700? Gotta see an Engle 110 in there somewhere...and an 010...massaged stock rods...early Berg linkage (the really ugly one)...SINGLE quiet-pack...Santana power pulley...Fram HP1...SHORT IDA manifolds...stock rockers with the clips wired together...stock valve covers...NO EMPI PARTS... etc, etc... i agree with you keith I LOVE THAT LINKAGE The linkage you see there ( one of a kind ) is now in my car. Can you believe that motor was complete w/ EMPI four bolt flange exhaust, was setting in a container for about 37+ years ? I LOVE THAT LINKAGE but the manifolds are abit tall and the exhaust ports look a tad small I have also been thinking about Magneto's I fully trust them BUT how many people did actually run them on the street That's true, I cant think of anybody in the early 70's running Mag's on the streets however the only person comes to mind was Ray Mederno "Peps DKP III" older brother was one of the first guy I knew who did on the late 70's early 80's in his Bad ass low 12 second street car.. This is one of the reason I run one as today... |
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Der Kleiner Panzers
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ST DRAGN
Full Member
Posts: 202
More Port. More Gas..Kicks Ass...
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2007, 00:13:15 am » |
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that second motor, with Art's linkage....are those manifolds feeding single port heads? I have an old book from the late 70's...from Bentley Publishing...shows pic of a road racing Super Beetle motor...dual 48IDAs on short manifolds (mixture screws on inside), Speedwell linkage, power Santana, 010, o.e. 36hp fan housing. Another shot of a VW motor shows 48IDAs feeding a single-port motor. VERY WEIRD... Jim, They are early EMPI dual port part manifolds. "talk about a straight shot"...take a note in how close the carb's are to the shroud. of course have the High C/R doesn't help or does it.. I take it that the single port to a dual carb set-up was developed (custom made) before the dual port was released to the public? |
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Der Kleiner Panzers
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benssp
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2007, 12:50:53 pm » |
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Lee.C
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2007, 14:03:26 pm » |
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Yep I've already seen those dude - little bit pricey though |
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Shubee2 (DSK)
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2007, 14:21:18 pm » |
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Yep I've already seen those dude - little bit pricey though Plus there for a Stroker Crank |
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Der Selten Kafers VW Club.
Founding Member Est: 1976
58 Ragtop Old School Cal Look
66 Cal Look Drag Car
67 Resto Cal Look
67 Chevy II Nova L79
02 Camaro Vert!
04 Corvette Vert!
04 Colorado Pickup
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Shubee2 (DSK)
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2007, 14:39:06 pm » |
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Most of The 1679 Motors Back in the 70's Ran this combo
VW Dual Bypass Case
69 mm CW Crank
thick wall 88's
Engle w-120 cam
Engle or German Lifters
Engle Dual Springs
40x35 Big Valve Heads (Mild Oval Port unwelded) compression ratio about 9 to 1
48 IDA's on short Manifolds and Berg Linkage
010 Dist.
1 1/2 Qt deep sump
case tapped for full flow
Fram HP-1 Oil Filter & Mount attched to the Traction bar with a U Clamp
Berg Blue Printed oil Pump
12 lb flywheel
1700 lb Kennedy Press plate
stock size Santana Pulley
12 Volt Blue Coil (German Tan Top)
stock rockers with Berg H.D.Stafts
swivel Feet adjusters
3/8 chromemoly Pushrods
1 1/2 Merged Exhaust with a Single or Dual QP Muffler
36 or 40 H.P. Fan Shroud
Sheet metal all Painted Gloss Black
Chrome Parts: gen. Back Plate,Gen.Pulley,Coil Strap,Dist.Clamp,Dip Stick,Gen. or Alt Strap,and Chrome stock Oil Filler and Cap.
That is a 70's (1679 Old School Motor) most of these motors ran mid to high 13's depending on the head work and Compression
Picture Below Has Tall Manifolds and A Polished 009 Dist But You Get the Idea. Dont Need All That Aftermarket Crap On Your Motor Just Clean Simple And Tastefully Detailed....
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 21:45:03 pm by Shubee2 (DSK) »
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Der Selten Kafers VW Club.
Founding Member Est: 1976
58 Ragtop Old School Cal Look
66 Cal Look Drag Car
67 Resto Cal Look
67 Chevy II Nova L79
02 Camaro Vert!
04 Corvette Vert!
04 Colorado Pickup
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2007, 14:47:19 pm » |
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Shubee, as far as SOME of those characteristics go...watch my engine for next season |
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Shubee2 (DSK)
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2007, 14:53:11 pm » |
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Shubee, as far as SOME of those characteristics go...watch my engine for next season I will Be |
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Der Selten Kafers VW Club.
Founding Member Est: 1976
58 Ragtop Old School Cal Look
66 Cal Look Drag Car
67 Resto Cal Look
67 Chevy II Nova L79
02 Camaro Vert!
04 Corvette Vert!
04 Colorado Pickup
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Lee.C
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« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2007, 01:00:23 am » |
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Hey guys I have been haveing a few more thoughts about "1700cc" motors - I want to get as much RPM as posible I have seen a couple of cool ideas used on "Blueprinted" porsche engine in the past so I thought I'd see what you guys 1 - So called "Knife-edging" of the crank lobe for a more aerodynamic effiency and 2 - Smoothing of the inside of the crank case for both better air AND oil flow I will admit that both of thes things are normally done to VERY VERY HIGH SPEC motors but I want to get the most I can from this little "Mouse motor" My aim is to run 13's So let me know what you think guys |
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louisb
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2007, 02:30:05 am » |
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DPR offers knife edge for their cranks. I think Scat may too. I am not really sure the gains would be worth it.
--louis
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Louis Brooks
The Beatings Will Continue Until Moral Improves!
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folkevogn
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2007, 03:04:01 am » |
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I`m not saying it wont help with knifeedge crank, but I would rather put my time into the heads if your goal is high rpm.
I`m think you can make descent powernumbers even with the stock crank and rods.Take a look at the pictures of the heads that Ugly Duckling is working on at the moment(in another tread here on the forum)I think thats the way to go if you want to make big numbers in a small displacment(maybe to radical ??)
Anyway, this looks like a cool project, looking forward to following the progress.
Regards
Folke Vogn
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11.96 @ 180kmh - SCC 2013 |
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Lee.C
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« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2007, 04:20:39 am » |
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I`m not saying it wont help with knifeedge crank, but I would rather put my time into the heads if your goal is high rpm.
I`m think you can make descent powernumbers even with the stock crank and rods.Take a look at the pictures of the heads that Ugly Duckling is working on at the moment(in another tread here on the forum)I think thats the way to go if you want to make big numbers in a small displacment(maybe to radical ??)
Anyway, this looks like a cool project, looking forward to following the progress.
Regards
Folke Vogn
of course the main RPM will be produced best good heads I just want to really "Blueprint" this little engine and give it every advantage I can I remember seeing a thread on here about internal case smoothing - does anyone remember this thread |
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Diederick/DVK
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2007, 20:19:54 pm » |
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yup, i do. it was a typical ratto thread suggesting trimming off any sharp edging and giving it a good licking  i forgot the term he used for it... |
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Diederick
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Proud member of:
DVK ~ Der Vollgas Kreuzers
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Lee.C
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« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2007, 21:15:22 pm » |
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cool got a link to it dude |
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The Cal-look Lounge
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