sway-a-way adjustable spring plates, torsion bars reference chart

[pupjoint]

anyone has the link to the reference chart for the sway-a-way spring plates and torsion bars/ bushes?

thinking of getting a set to firm up my rear, currently on stock 66 set up.

it is a 90% street car , should i just stick to stock or am i wasting my money on these spring plates and thicker bars?

[richie]

If you are after size and thickness available CB has them all listed on their site.

http://www.cbperformance.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=97

Personally I like the thicker bars, a 26mm seems real nice on a road car, we add a bunch of extra stuff on our cars and if you lower the rear at all you take some pre load out of the stock bars which softens them up more, and most of them have had a hard life and probably arent the same as new now.
I have never bothered with adjustable spring plates though, they get in the way of running a half decent width tyre to much for me, just need a decent shock to control that extra spring

cheers Richie

[Jon]

There is no such thing as a pre loaded torsion bar, once the tires are resting on the ground and the spring plates have lifted of the stopper all pre load from the installation is gone. From that point on your only bet for stiffer springs is thicker bars.  I have 28 mm sway bars, and they are probably to much for what you need.

[richie]

There is no such thing as a pre loaded torsion bar, once the tires are resting on the ground and the spring plates have lifted of the stopper all pre load from the installation is gone. From that point on your only bet for stiffer springs is thicker bars.  I have 28 mm sway bars, and they are probably to much for what you need.

I don't agree with you but thats fine   and I forgot to mention before that the length of the bars has an effect, a short mid 60s 26mm bar will be stiffer than a late long IRS bar[ in my opinion ]


cheers Richie

[JS]

Look around the Swayaway site, you´ll find it all there.

http://www.swayaway.com/TechRoom_VWguides.php

[Taylor]

There is no such thing as a pre loaded torsion bar, once the tires are resting on the ground and the spring plates have lifted of the stopper all pre load from the installation is gone. From that point on your only bet for stiffer springs is thicker bars.  I have 28 mm sway bars, and they are probably to much for what you need.

I don't agree either.  If you index a spring plate in such a way that it rests on the stop at any degree other than the torsion bar's static position, it is now preloaded. 

[JS]

There is no such thing as a pre loaded torsion bar, once the tires are resting on the ground and the spring plates have lifted of the stopper all pre load from the installation is gone. From that point on your only bet for stiffer springs is thicker bars.  I have 28 mm sway bars, and they are probably to much for what you need.

I don't agree either.  If you index a spring plate in such a way that it rests on the stop at any degree other than the torsion bar's static position, it is now preloaded. 

Of course it´s preloaded, but what happens when you put the car back on the ground and the plate is lifted off the stopper? Think about it.

[Jon]

I agree, the torsion bar is preloaded when it's sitting on the stop. But the point is you can't drive around with the spring plate sitting on the stop. And once it lifts from the stop the preload is "gone".

An example, imagine your car is weighing 250 kilos at every corner, and that those 250 kilos twist the torsion bar half a round (180 degrees) anti clockwise. And you want to preload it with half, what you do is that you turn 90 degree clockwise before forcing it up on the stop. At that point it's preloaded with 125 kilos. Now imagine that you slowly release the jack holding the car, when 124 kilos are resting on the spring plate it's still sitting on the stop, at 125 kilos it's just touching the stop and at 126 kilos the preload has been overcome and it's leaving the stopper. Once the full 250 kilos are resting on the spring plate the torsion bar will have turned a full 90 degrees anti clockwise of the stop. Making the total twist of the torsion 180 degrees. At that point the suspension is just as stiff as when you started, but your ride height is much higher.

[richie]

Of course it´s preloaded, but what happens when you put the car back on the ground and the plate is lifted off the stopper? Think about it.

Pre load it enough or if the car is real light and it wont come off the stop, think baja bug or potato chip gasser race car,so then what?
Think about it


If you set the spring pate to rest on the stop with the car off the ground then put it back on the ground it would be lower than if you set it to stock spring plate angle, why is this? it in my opinion is due to the "Pre" load put on the torsion bar with the emphasis on the "pre" loading it.

cheers Richie

[Jon]

Richie, are you suggesting to drive around with the spring plates resting on the stopper? In that case you are right. But how does a car handle without any downward travel? And how do you sett your ride height? By extending the stoppers?

[Taylor]

Richie, are you suggesting to drive around with the spring plates resting on the stopper? In that case you are right. But how does a car handle without any downward travel? And how do you sett your ride height? By extending the stoppers?

I agree with you some what, but your example supposes that the torsion bar's ability to resist twist is linear throughout its working range.  If your car is heavier or has more power you could preload the bar more and when on the ground,  the car will find its center and the more highly wound bar will will carry the load.  Within reason obviously and I'm not recommending overworking a small bar.   That's how I see it but you can convince me otherwise.   

[richie]

Richie, are you suggesting to drive around with the spring plates resting on the stopper? In that case you are right. But how does a car handle without any downward travel? And how do you sett your ride height? By extending the stoppers?

 Nope, don't have a Baja, but we are talking about PRE load here, when you set the spring plate on anything further than the stop you Pre load the bar, if you didn't with stock bars it would be Resto cal

I do see what you and JS are saying and it is correct, except the bar is still PRE loaded, if the car is not heavy enough to take the spring plate of the stop at rest then does that change what you are both saying? it doesn't affect what i am saying, under accelleration and over bumps the spring plate can still move off the stop, but it doesnt suddenly become softer when it does that, it still has the Pre load/tension in it. By Pre loading it you increase the spring rate at rest correct?

cheers Richie

[Jon]

We are talking about an alternative to buying thicker torsion bars. If one needs stiffer suspension, pre load is not an option.
Pre load is not a goal, it's just a result of wanting to have a high ride height. If you cut of the stopper it doesn't even exist.

A torsion bar does no know what's up or down, it twist the same the same for a given load... no matter where the starting point was

[richie]

As i said before I see it differently to you, that's ok , why you would cut the stopper off is beyond me? or is it just to argue with me?  with Pre load "I" can make it stiffer and still get a desired ride height [ within reason of course], a torsion bar is a variable rate spring. That's all for me

cheers Richie

[Jon]

My only goal was to inform how torsion bars work. 
No point in arguing about it, if anyone with English as their native language could explain it better than I do, go ahead.

[JS]

Of course it´s preloaded, but what happens when you put the car back on the ground and the plate is lifted off the stopper? Think about it.

Pre load it enough or if the car is real light and it wont come off the stop, think baja bug or potato chip gasser race car,so then what?
Think about it


If you set the spring pate to rest on the stop with the car off the ground then put it back on the ground it would be lower than if you set it to stock spring plate angle, why is this? it in my opinion is due to the "Pre" load put on the torsion bar with the emphasis on the "pre" loading it.

cheers Richie

I see what you did there. 

If the car sits on the ground resting firmly on the stops you are of course right, but would you really want the unloading rear suspension slamming back down on the stop?