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drgouk
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« on: January 14, 2014, 11:44:29 am » |
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Hello,
I'm looking at some 51.5 Ida's for my 2789cc street motor. I was thinking of adding the JPM vent's & stacks, but before I go down that track, how would that compare to a set of Berg 52 Ida's? What are the berg carbs like in the progression circuit? Casting quality OK? throttle butterfly fit good?
Are the 51.5 IDAS OK, once bored? no long term durability issues with the reduced bore thickness?
Looking forward to your experiences with the above carbs
Thanks
David Gouk
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Chris bugster
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 12:22:16 pm » |
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I have a set of Berg carbs, not 52 but 58 IDA. I generally like Berg's vw parts but these carbs have been a pain. They needed a few modifications esp the accelerator plunger because it leaked. The hole needed a bushing and is now ok. Maybe it was just my set or maybe because they are 15 years old.
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11.2@124mph
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Kiel
Jr. Member
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 17:21:22 pm » |
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drgouk
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 19:28:30 pm » |
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Thanks for the replies, this is the info that im after. What are the jaycee 51 webers like? any issues?
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TexasTom
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 20:32:31 pm » |
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The Berg carbs are a bit of a different animal from original Weber IDAs and so will involve a slightly different approach to tuning.
I have 48 Bergs on my 2276 ... did it just because I wanted to try them and to be different.
The advantage to 51.5s is their popularity and so the stockroom as to tuning advice, should you need it, is much larger. They tune pretty much identical to a 48 without issue, in my experience.
Hope that helps, David
TxT
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Work, work, WORK!
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drgouk
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 21:22:05 pm » |
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Thanks Tom, Whats the quality of the casting like? no leakage issues?
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TexasTom
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 22:07:30 pm » |
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I think the Berg carbs are absolutely beautiful.
Kind of hard to find since no longer made ...
I'll try and get a few pics for you, David.
TxT
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Work, work, WORK!
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drgouk
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 22:09:35 pm » |
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That would be great Tom, Thanks.
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UltraOrange67-2443
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 22:23:03 pm » |
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1967 1200 2920cc EFI
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TexasTom
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2014, 22:52:24 pm » |
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Dang! |
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Work, work, WORK!
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TexasTom
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 22:59:01 pm » |
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Berg 52 vs. 51.5 IDA
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Work, work, WORK!
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TexasTom
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 23:04:04 pm » |
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2 more ...
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drgouk
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 12:01:54 pm » |
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Thanks for taking the time to post pics Tom, They are a nice piece, the the bottom view tells a story, those 51.5mm carbs are thin!
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Udo
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 13:07:14 pm » |
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Are Berg carbs still avalable ? They are very nice carburators and strong too . Do not know anything about the empis .... modyfied 48 work good if they are done well .
Udo
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Phil West
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 13:10:34 pm » |
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I remember weighing a set of each - the Bergs were staggeringly heavy, almost double if I recall (maybe they were the 58's). So running a pair of those was like running four 51.5s in weight. Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end.
Cheers
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BeetleBug
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« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 14:19:05 pm » |
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I remember weighing a set of each - the Bergs were staggeringly heavy, almost double if I recall (maybe they were the 58's). So running a pair of those was like running four 51.5s in weight. Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end.
Cheers
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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TexasTom
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« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 16:01:07 pm » |
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I remember weighing a set of each - the Bergs were staggeringly heavy, almost double if I recall (maybe they were the 58's). So running a pair of those was like running four 51.5s in weight. Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end.
Cheers
They all use the same massive casting, so 60s would be the lightest of the bunch for the Berg carbs!  |
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Work, work, WORK!
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didi
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« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2014, 18:55:14 pm » |
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Al Craig @ berg wrote me that this year is a production run for 58/60mm carbs planned. Let him know when you are interested for a big carb set.
Didi
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drgouk
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 07:41:44 am » |
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Do the extra progression holes in the Berg ida's make a difference as the carb comes on to the main? Less of a stumble?
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Udo
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 10:45:45 am » |
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I remember weighing a set of each - the Bergs were staggeringly heavy, almost double if I recall (maybe they were the 58's). So running a pair of those was like running four 51.5s in weight. Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end.
Cheers
Enlarged float chambers also make more weight of fuel :-) Udo |
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TexasTom
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 20:41:18 pm » |
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Do the extra progression holes in the Berg ida's make a difference as the carb comes on to the main? Less of a stumble?
I always considered that more of a jetting issue ... that's how I cured it on my IDAs. Like anything else, it just takes time and effort. Sorry that doesn't really answer your question, David ... TxT |
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Bruce
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2014, 02:41:08 am » |
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Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end. The big problem I can see for a street car is all that weight perched way up on the top of the manifolds will create a lot of stress on the flange at the head. Expect the manifolds to eventually break. Another thing to consider with the modified Webers is that many of the 51.5s are NOT even close to being 51.5mm at the throttle plate. The limiting factor is the factory Weber location of the outlet hole for the idle mixture. The last set of 51.5s I measured were 50.5mm. |
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Jon
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 3214
12,3@174km/t at Gardermoen 2008
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2014, 13:04:47 pm » |
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Smaller throttle plates will always behave better than larger ones, so a combination of higher cfm and smaller throttle plates would be the way to go for a HOT street car, in my opinion.
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Grumpy old men have signatures like this.
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drgouk
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2014, 22:36:27 pm » |
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Not so much of a problem for streetcar but it's all at the back end. The big problem I can see for a street car is all that weight perched way up on the top of the manifolds will create a lot of stress on the flange at the head. Expect the manifolds to eventually break. Another thing to consider with the modified Webers is that many of the 51.5s are NOT even close to being 51.5mm at the throttle plate. The limiting factor is the factory Weber location of the outlet hole for the idle mixture. The last set of 51.5s I measured were 50.5mm. Thanks for the info Bruce. I have zero experience with Bored webers. |
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Roman
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 11:02:35 am » |
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I have run Berg 52's on the street and it is absolutely no problem if you have a big tuned engine.
My 2387 made 228 hp with 46 mm intake wedgeports.
I think standard 48's with JPM mod would do the same job though for that engine.
For my 2789 I had Terminators and they worked OK too.
The only problem I had was a stuck float.
The bottom end was not great but still OK. The engine idled easily at 750 rpm with a FK98.
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« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 11:07:19 am by Roman »
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drgouk
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2014, 11:10:52 am » |
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Thanks for your response Roman. What is your current engine combination?
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Roman
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« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2014, 08:49:27 am » |
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None. I sold the car 3 years ago to a friend. I hope he will finish the engine work I started this year; JPM cam, more portwork and home made oval throttle bodies. It will make well over 300 hp.
I am thinking of a comeback, but in that case it is nothing that will be finihed this year.
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NoBars
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« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2014, 16:35:10 pm » |
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Care to share a pic of the throttle bodies? I am thinking of going down that road myself.
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My real name is Anthony Consorte.
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volkmaster
Newbie
Posts: 29
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2014, 17:24:13 pm » |
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Hi NoBars.
I own Romans engine and I can send you some pics when I have time to get to the garage next time.
Have put some more $ into the engine but will not run it this year due to other projects.
Will however put the longblock together this year and them we will see.
/Herman
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Roman
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2014, 20:05:00 pm » |
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I found two pictures of the TB with the 3D-printed casting plug. In 2009 3D-printing was extreme!
It was not finished externally and return spring etc was left to do.
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