Oil filter insert collapse

[Airspeed]

I run this trick US oil filter which uses replaceble inserts and have seen that they are usually collapsed and the caps(s) detached on removal, like in the picture.
As the type 1 I used them on had a few oiling issues (rear mains twice), I started to worry if this isn;t the root cause of that.

Anyone else seen this happen?

[glenn]

Looks like a Canton Mecca, i've used one for 15 years with no problems.

Have you contacted their tech support?

info@cantonracingproducts.com

[Phil West]

I run this trick US oil filter which uses replaceble inserts and have seen that they are usually collapsed and the caps(s) detached on removal, like in the picture.
As the type 1 I used them on had a few oiling issues (rear mains twice), I started to worry if this isn;t the root cause of that.

Anyone else seen this happen?

I run the Canton also.  Mine looked identical to that when I removed it.  After I blew motor that is!  So I'm not sure what would do it other than large bits of metal.

[Airspeed]

Its indeed Canton Glenn. I haven't contacted their tech support.

...I'm not sure what would do it other than large bits of metal.

The very fine 'cloth' part filters up to 8 micron, which is great. But I feel that such a fine filter is also restrictive when I see my several collapsed ones. Also weird that the bypass doesn't work to prevent this...
I get a feeling the oil starvation issues I had might have to do with this filter as I hadn't those when I used a regular filter. I also run a good dry-sump system (26/38 pressure/suction pump gears), so that can't be it either.

[mr horsepower]

What are the red particles walter ?

[Airspeed]

Dunno, didn;t see them IRL tbh. Not relevant to the question imo.

[Stripped66]

I run this trick US oil filter which uses replaceble inserts and have seen that they are usually collapsed and the caps(s) detached on removal, like in the picture.
As the type 1 I used them on had a few oiling issues (rear mains twice), I started to worry if this isn;t the root cause of that.

Anyone else seen this happen?

The ends separating are normal, but the internal cage collapse is not. I had a similar issue last summer. I use their canister filter, and the outer cage of the element split at the seam, expanded and blocked the outlet of the canister (you can see the impression on the outer cage where it was pushed against the outlet). Keep in mind, the canister feeds oil through the filter in the opposite direction of the spin-on filters (e.g. the canister feeds from the inside out, whereas a spin-on filter feeds from the outside in); so, our element failures are arguably very similar.

Because my oil pressure sensor is tapped into the canister, my oil pressure was reading very high and I was chasing the problem at the Peterson pressure regulator (downstream of the filter), thinking my regulator was not bypassing like it should. At this same time, I was struggling to make a lick of boost on my GT3782va, which I later discovered requires at least 15psi to actuate the VGT. Oil pressure was spiking because resistance at the outlet was high and very little oil was leaving the canister. Fortunately, the turbo woes (and a rain-out) persuaded me to put the car on the trailer before anything catastrophic happened.

This element didn't have many miles on it, so I would not have suspected pressure to cause the element to fail. OTOH, my failed filter element was a smidge too long for my canister when I was bolting it together...maybe 0.050"? So perhaps the cage separated when the canister squeezed the element during assembly. I wouldn't hesitate to consider they had a bad production run, especially when my replacement element did not fit that poorly.

[Stripped66]

Also weird that the bypass doesn't work to prevent this...

Where is your bypass, and does it bypass back to the main gallery?

[glenn]

The CM filters do not have a bypass valve.

"Do CM Filters Have A Built-in Bypass?
No. The high flow of the CM element can handle more flow than that required by any automotive application, so all oil can be filtered all the time."

[Stripped66]

The CM filters do not have a bypass valve.

"Do CM Filters Have A Built-in Bypass?
No. The high flow of the CM element can handle more flow than that required by any automotive application, so all oil can be filtered all the time."

Somehow I think you're missing part of the discussion...

[Airspeed]

Also weird that the bypass doesn't work to prevent this...

Where is your bypass, and does it bypass back to the main gallery?

On my type 4 its the original one in the type 4 filter bracket, but in the type 1 (turbo 1200) configuration, there was no bypass. Like Glenn mentioned, Canton says not needed, but now I beg to differ.
Thanks for your input and sharing. I think an original filter comes back unless it was indeed a bad batch of filter inserts..

[Stripped66]

Also weird that the bypass doesn't work to prevent this...

Where is your bypass, and does it bypass back to the main gallery?

On my type 4 its the original one in the type 4 filter bracket, but in the type 1 (turbo 1200) configuration, there was no bypass. Like Glenn mentioned, Canton says not needed, but now I beg to differ.
Thanks for your input and sharing. I think an original filter comes back unless it was indeed a bad batch of filter inserts..

Is it possible the bypass on your Type 4 is too small to sufficiently decrease the pressure across the filter (particularly when cold)? My dry-sump pump pressure stage is huge, and my bypass located after the filter, so my filter could be seeing a pretty big pressure spike when the engine is cold (the pressure within the canister was spiked, in excess of 80 psi, when the element was blocking the outlet of the canister).

[Airspeed]

No, in the type 4 the engine didn't suffer, so the bypass was probably ok in there. Also filter collapsed in there same as in the type 1...

In the type 1 with this filter it happened twice and ruined two cases and caused two times turning of the crank  .

I also used the same TP dry-sump pump in both engines and I never saw any pressure spikes.

[drgouk]

Found this Walter : http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/579142-oil-pressure-problems-canton-mecca.html

[Frallan]

Not like

I have run System 1 since 1986 and no issues.
Yes they do have bypass built in.

I bought 10 units back then. Sold 6 in Sweden.
Usde double System 1 for many years too.

[drgouk]

Not like

I have run System 1 since 1986 and no issues.
Yes they do have bypass built in.

I bought 10 units back then. Sold 6 in Sweden.
Usde double System 1 for many years too.

You can purchase them without the bypass if you wish, I got one for our dyno.

[Airspeed]

Found this Walter : http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/579142-oil-pressure-problems-canton-mecca.html

Good find!
Obviously, this trick looking blue anodized housing is just a problem waiting to happen...

Some things are better left simple and proven is my lesson for today.

[Harry/FDK]

But i would contact Canton anyway and see what their comments are. I use the older, heavier 4 bolt on anything aircooled even my HD's and never had issues.

Good luck.

PS. i found this on another forrum, maybe it helps...

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Nemisish20
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Default Re: Another, canton/mecca (cm) filter NOT GOOD thread
I am the tech/customer service manager over here at Canton/CM Filters. Please call me as I have run into this very few times but I have done extensive research into this issue.

In the past, our caps were machined with such a tight tolerance, they would get snug to the cap and as the customer was unscrewing the cap to change the element, the silicone glue used to hold the end caps to the cage would come apart.

The element does not come apart until the cap is unthreaded and it used to be this way because it made inspection of the element much easier.

Our newer filters have been cut to give a few thousandths more clearance so our customers do no panic when they pull the cap off and the end cap of the element comes with it.


We have been manufacturing these type of filters for over 30 years and have had much success with our filters. We have had countless customers thank us for our product saving their engine as well as being so easily inspected.

Please call me at 203-481-9460 and I will do my best to rectify the situation for you so you can be happy with the product.

Thank You,

Nick Ansaldi