Gentlemen, you both are correct, and some times i wonder if it is worth the time and effort to build a ' perfect engine'
we have all spent countless hours in the proper build and blue printing of a high dollar racing engine, but i ask, and am not alone in that some pretty serious championship winning owners share the view, is it REALLY necessary, we have all lost the original build specs when a mid season burnt valve or a shifted valve guide have meant internal work, perhaps odd new valves that have altered the original perfect chamber volumes and rocker geometry, even odd weight pushrods and rockers have gone into some of mine, why? because needs must, we were out on track yesterday, i threw in a 1.25 rocker one time during a lunch break, no time left, made the race with burnt and oily fingers, another customer motor was found to be touching the heads with the pistons while eventing at the track, and repaired by block flatting the crowns with sandpaper, this in the wind blown dusty paddock, how about the season i did with 3/8 rod bolts torqued to 5/16 value? yes, 29 ft/lb at over 7000 rpm for a season or 6hrs wot racing, all was all perfect when i discovered my mistake, no b/e shell wear or cap shifting. the point im making is that these cobbled up warrior motors went just as well as the original builds even after the band aided repairs, so there it is, does it REALLY make a difference when the thrown together BITZA motors win races and dont explode? i know i will cut a lot more corners just to get trackside, im off racing ASAP and already cutting corners lol
I couldn't agree more and being a perfectionist (as Jon hit bullseye on that) is THE reason i (and i know many others in that respect) am stuck to the drawing board and watching others go fast and have fun.
Don't mean to be sad here, i enjoy theory as much as practice. But the more you know on the theory side the more 'what if's' and doubts arise on the practical side of things. Especially if you integrate the 'lifespan/durability' bit into the equation...stuff get's crazy quick... I have deep respect for the engine builders out there do it on 'gut feeling' and talent (and not just that), and do the go fast stuff without overthinking
, while i watch on the trackside bashing my pocket calculator
(Warning: emotional rant
)
@ Jon: I can only be honest; i started on engine overhaul (professionally) in an ACVW shop years ago, came into contact with the racing world, made lots of friends (some at OEM's developing stuff thats permanently on NDA, the really good stuff). I'm finishing my degree in automotive engineering, spent countless of hours on a professional dyno watching serious racing engines do their thing, and helping out to improve their stuff performance wise by deduction, theory, science, voodoo (
), loads of talking/engine philosophy, and practice. Being a sparring partner in general, but i kept learning at very high pace due to the combination of both (science backed) education and practice. So i kinda get to see both ends of the snake so to speak. I witnessed loads of high cost engines fail (either mechanically or performance wise) on the dyno and standing next to their owners/builders and watching the devastation on both their face and/or in the dyno room is just coal on the fire of a perfectionist ->
if only you/we knew more before we fired up the d**n thing.....
Again i have the deepest respect for all the time, effort and money (and the sacrifices) the people on this (and many other) forums put into their work.
But i have also witnessed stuff go bad hard just because people went 'blind' at an excel sheet, or 'what he said' without knowing the bigger picture, which
could have saved them from making a costly mistake. Often such a thing results in 'giving up on it' out of disappointment or material reasons which, for me, is not the intention of a great hobby like our beloved (ACVW) engines/cars.
I guess that it's where thorough experience comes in, checking your gut with your head and tools you are proficient with. And if both say 'yes' it ought to work out right or even beyond 'the average'.
As an example: i had the chance last year to visit and talk to Johannes Persson in person at his shop and he is living proof: experience+education+the right 'soft' tools = magic and there's his work to prove it (which is remarkable).
And that's what i love about forums like this as we can all put our dime in the pocket to keep the progress going into the positive direction for all
So to continue my 'emotional' rant, back to the original topic: this has been tried so many times and requires more work than writing a book or two to prevent mistakes that become obvious áfter stuff broke down.
That's why i suggest getting books, digest, compact and reflect. Books went through an audit (especially the engineering books) and reduce the error-rate to comfortable levels.
I have made my mistakes too, i too thought that it was 'just math' and the engine gods are still happy with my sacrifices (as opposed to my wallet).
There is one huge exception here: if you keep it
within reason (and that is left to define) you can't do much wrong if you listen well to the folks that already did it!I have all the faith in rules of thumb and general 'ball park' excel sheets/tools or 'murals in the workshop' to get you, well..., into the ballpark of things though please, do not accept them as defining
the boundaries of what is possible, or impossible, and that is where the danger lies, and experience/(scientific) knowledge comes in.
*sweats*...i guess my intention is/was to prevent the topic starter falling into a trap that i got stuck in as well which left me stuck at the drawing board, or ending up with something
that did not live up to my expectations (aaaaaaaand here we go again....
).
I love to help out wherever i can with all i know, but i will always keep shouting from the rooftops that there's always more and the devil is in the details (all the tears
).
Note: i keep editing this post as it does not cover all the thoughts but oh well...stuff like this needs a campfire and a drink or two
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