My First Engine Build....2110

[andy198712]

Put the case halfs together to see where the bottom of the rods would hit, first place it hit was the boss for the head studs on both sides


Took a bit out.... Still needs more...


Will build it up again having sanded some more off and see where I'm at, then repeat for the other 3. Fair few hr in this case!

[andy198712]

thought i'd sorted it... but it still hits, having to remove pretty much all the "step" area you see in the case boing, just about to refit the crank again to check it and see what clearance i have....

finally got it to this stage



Good clearance on the back of the head stud boss



here i started to copy the clearance to the other areas... starting with a cylinder shape burr



then smoothing with a flap wheel

[andy198712]

having copied that on all for rods it was time for cleaning!

today was a cleaning day, i went through all the oil ways and cam bored, bolt threads ect with brushes and paraffin then carb cleaner,
i think gave it a good spray with degreaser, and hosed off and left to dry in the sun,  looked bit bare and ready to corrode like this as it was very dry ( if that makes sense, so i gave it a coat in paraffin  and looks nice!





D code.... just a innocent 1200... honest

[andy198712]

I found this method for checking deck hieght to be the best with my selection if tools

Put a block of "metal" under anvil of dial indicator (on top pf piston) and gently seated it under (against) angle as far up compression stroke as it would move... Set dial indicator at "0", back off piston and removed metal block, bring piston up to TDC and the difference shown on dial indicator is your deck height...

I checked it with my feelers and works well!

Been a long emotional day!!

started off measuring the deck height with my 2mm spacers in the barrels and a newly made deck height tool (patent pending )






This proved a much better method and was giving good solid reading on the dial gauge.

Sit the nut under the dial and the flat, spin the crank to get the nut stopping the piston on the flat (gently) hit ZERO on the dial gauge, then lower the piston, remove the nut, and bring it back up, when at TDC (easy to read using the gauge) thats your deck height.





so both 3&4 side had a deck of 0.04-0.03mm happy, would need a 1mm spacer to add in to get my desired deck and compression ratio!

moved onto number one and fitted the plate, when to turn it over but the piston hit the plate.... this is with the 2mm shim installed..... panic!
i changed the shim, then barrel, then piston, then rod and still the same result! pondered it over for a bit and then decided i'd check number 2.... same issue, i was getting 0.5mm positive deck, but at least they were both the same on this side and it was a good round number!
i fitted my 1.5mm barrel shims to these two barrels and it gave me my desired deck, happy days!!well, close enough!



so now i need to swap my two spare 1.5mm spacers for 1mm ones for the other side and the deck will be set! i'm guessing this is due to the crank bore in the cases not being central from the factory..?

[andy198712]

Also did a quick mock up to see what my ITBs would clear like, and i've got LOADS of room!! even with a standard non 36hp shroud so that makes my life easier as i can run a good VW twin port shroud now and not a scat one (although i like the looks!)

[andy198712]

Mocking up the manifolds



I'm going to use the carb/itb rubber flanges off bikes to attach these

[andy198712]

Reusing a couple of OG VW pieces



Heated the gears up to 250C in my £4 ebay counter top parts oven and they slipped on a treat to become solid when cooled!
the snap ring was a bugga! glad i used the tape on the bearing surface.



Before anyone says, no i haven't forgotten about the bearing i figured seeing as i needed it built up without bearings for balancing, and i didn't want to faff with pulling them off ( i don't own a puller) i remembered reading about using a split bearing same as No 2 in the No 3 location, and VW did this for engines going to cold climates i believe, don't know why they did for that reason, maybe i got my wires crossed, then i notice Gene Berg does it also.

out with an old bearing, drill a 5mm hole through the dowel drilling to act as a template.



i then fitted the other split bearing in the other case half, torqued it up to centre the bearings, then split the case again, started drilling and checking for dowel height.
i noticed this dowel pulls out easier then the original ones so i secured it in with a smear or epoxy metal for good measure, not that it can go anywhere anyways. i guess next time, drill it to 4.5mm and deem to size.



Thats about all for now, but at least now i can bolt on my cam's gear and start to look at rod clearance, lift, geometry ect

[andy198712]

cam to lifter clearance is plenty (well over 1mm) and the lifters fall slowly under their own weight when oiled with no side play



the cam is pretty tight on the thrust bearing so some work is needed there....

[andy198712]

Set my cam end play in one half to 0.05mm which is 0.002" ish which I saw recommended.

I then also checked my rod to cam clearance in that half if the case, all atleast 0.75mm so happy with that!

On to the next half of the case for another 2 hrs work

Also sourced a 200mm flywheel I'll use as my trigger then have it refaced. And a set of 10mm studs, both German for £40 posted so not too bad


Things are close but mostly ok



Just my number 2 rod came a little too close for comfort, I think it may have had the lightest big end so had the least removed maybe... Or just the way it goes, but I used a burr to remove just enough material.



After this I sanded it smooth with a sanding roll so its nice and shiny and free from any marks that could cause cracks to form...

That's pretty much my clearance stuff done for the short block....

Things left to do.

Clean
Sort out flywheel trigger and end play.
Buy a clutch and decide on a pulley (thinking stock) and get it balanced (about £130)
Cut the pushrods to length or chicken out and have them cut.
Sort rocker geo and shim springs.
Mock up and start on the cooling, oil system (forgot, need a oil pump an blueprint it)
Finish up the fuel injection.

It felt close, till I wrote that list .....

[andy198712]

So, with windage in mind,

i'll be using a small sump, thinking 1.5 litres? as its a daily driver, stock height and some dodgy roads, i don't want to smack the bottom off.



not too high



and all the way to the bottom



i was going to make this out of thin steel sheet, over aluminium due to possible vibration cracking?

Cheers

[richie]

Isn't that just going to slow the oil down from getting back into the sump?  There are some pretty slim sumps out there with decent capacity if you are worried about ground clearance

Richie

[andy198712]

Isn't that just going to slow the oil down from getting back into the sump?  There are some pretty slim sumps out there with decent capacity if you are worried about ground clearance

Richie

i really don't know to be honest with you.... to a degree yes i suppose it will?

i was thinking of a 1.5 litter sump.

ground clearance is my issue yeah, I'm still at stock height but with the farm lanes ect i go down i kind have to stay that way.

i'm mostly worried about the oil sloshing in  spirited driving. maybe i'm worrying too much but i like my bug to corner well and enjoy a good twisty... am i worrying too much about a non issue you think? and would be fine with a sump?

Cheers!

[andy198712]

Well....

Recently i brought on ebay a set of new stroker barrel and pistons, one piston was listed as being cracked, and matey had brought them from VWH 3 years ago so too late to return, i bid as i thought i could use the new barrels instead of my used ones... £35 posted won it.

Just now inspecting them and trying my hardest to find the crack that was mentioned..... hmmmm.
There was a few casting marks that maybe could be mistaken as a crack.

so i go back to the ebay add, and see which piston is pictured as cracked (has a green mark on it) go back and look at said piston and see some casting marks, and on the machined part where the pin enters, i see a mark which lines up with the casting flash.

i start to get excited here...

the "crack" turns out to be a slight mark from where a cir clip was removed which polished out with 3 strokes of some polishing cloth..... So it seems i have a brand new set of stoker barrel and pistons for £35.... i was going to pay that much for new piston rings anyway, so technically free!
not only that but they had been trial assembled, and still had the spacers stuck to the bottom, each one has a 0.5mm spacer and 5.5mm spacer, so now instead of buying a set of 1mm spacers and only using two, i'll just stack two 0.5mm spacers on the two barrels that needed it.... that saved me another £15!

What a day!!

But what i want to know is, those barrels and pistons are designed for 82mm cranks to give near spot on deck (i need spacers as mine had to be faced to remove corrosion) and i need 3.5mm/3mm spacers.... what bloody crank was he using that needed 6mm of spacers!

[andy198712]

So, popped the pistons out the cylinders, and took the rings off, set them aside for another day to check ring gaps.

i weighed the pistons with their pins fitted and had these results

A - 461.3g
B - 462.1g
C - 461.4g
D - 460.8g

so overall difference of 1.3g which isn't bad! i weighed them all 3 times to get a good result.

i then removed & weighed their respective pins

A - 112.2g
B - 112.5g
C - 112.7g
D - 112.0g

with a little jiggery pokery and swapping of pins i finally same to these weights

A - 461.4g
B - 461.3g
C - 461.2g
D - 461.1g

so difference of 0.3g, which i'm happy with.

i wonder how much Ti pins would cost? (keep dreaming)

next jobs are too check the ring gaps, and then start of rocker geo and push rod sizing.... actually getting somewhere! oh and check deck height again.

[andy198712]

Well, got a few jobs done lately and a couple parts lined up, got another flywheel to use, just got it soaking to clean up at the min and will then get the 8 dowel treatment and made into a crank trigger wheel which will in turn lighten it a bit.
Also lined up some 10mm head studs (Thanks Ade!)

so, checked over the rod oil clearances

used a little Vaseline to hold the plastigauge in place, torqued them up then removed. was a bit tricky holding it still but once you get it snug it sort of locks in position as it squashes the plastigauge.





Between 0.001 and 0.0017 ICNH which i'm happy with, from what i read you want to aim for 0.0008 - 0.0028 INCH.

i then check the number two split and the number three split bearings with the plastisgauge.
Bearing clearance for bearing two is  .001" - .0035" i got 0.002 INCH



and number 3 calls for .0016" - .004" clearance and i got 0.003 INCH



Both my split bearings are internal groove thus the non uniform look on the plastigauge. (i used another number 2 bearing in the number 3 place)


Next i checked the deck of the 3&4 side with the new spacers i had (came with my new barrels and pistons) this gave me a deck of 1.17mm so my compression ratio varies by 0.1 across the board which I'm happy with

Then today i got a cool delivery


i polished up the lash cap tops using 1200grit and crocus paper



and i started blueprinting the pump by removing the endplay, starting at 400 grit, then 600, then 800, then lost the will to live and called it good



next i'll port the pump following my Tom Wilson book, and then i'll DFL coat it i think, along with the lash caps and rod bearings.

So thats it for now!!

feels like it coming together a bit more now which is nice!

[andy198712]

Beautiful ghetto black....

[anpu]

 My bucpack 1.25 rockers screws after 200 km. I changed them to Scats screws, no problem after that.

[andy198712]

Looks like the BP HD pushrods too if i'm right? think it was them mushrooming then pounding the cap or just that the screws weren't hard enough/wrong shape??

cheers

[anpu]

Jep they were BP HD pushrods, other 7 was fine but all the screws was damaged. Screws wasn't hard enough, i know at least one other car that had same problem with the screws. My engine was 1835 engle w-120 with 043 heads single hd springs.

[andy198712]

Jep they were BP HD pushrods, other 7 was fine but all the screws was damaged. Screws wasn't hard enough, i know at least one other car that had same problem with the screws. My engine was 1835 engle w-120 with 043 heads single hd springs.

Where did you find your replacement screws? Cheers for the heads up mate

So to update, got my flywheel 8 doweled today and got that fitted after a bit of loving.

Also got a Porsche 911 fan and alternator coming.... just need the rest of the kit 

next up will be another mock up build and working out where to drill my flywheel to act as my crank trigger cool stuff!

[Clatter]

Hi,

Love your build, and the detailed write-up.

Not that you know me from Adam, but,
I would recommend you remove the valve guides for some more porting.

If the heads are decently fresh, the guides can be pushed 'up out of the way', to be pressed back in place later.

When the guides are in the way, it is impossible to get the shape of the port right.
Ideally, an even taper from throttle butterfly to valve seat....

Some recommend widening the port slightly as it flows around the guide.

With the rest of the work done here, seems a shame to leave a stone un-turned at this point!
 

[andy198712]

Hi,

Love your build, and the detailed write-up.

Not that you know me from Adam, but,
I would recommend you remove the valve guides for some more porting.

If the heads are decently fresh, the guides can be pushed 'up out of the way', to be pressed back in place later.

When the guides are in the way, it is impossible to get the shape of the port right.
Ideally, an even taper from throttle butterfly to valve seat....

Some recommend widening the port slightly as it flows around the guide.

With the rest of the work done here, seems a shame to leave a stone un-turned at this point!
 

Cheers buddy,
it's my first time build and nothing fancy, budget orientated in my little shed (and girlfriends kitchen table when she's out!)

do you mean to remove the lump around the guide in the port? so its all smooth? (i don't mean the lump in the roof of the port for the springs)

cheers bud!

[Clatter]

Saw this and couldn't resist... Here comes post #2...
 

For any real porting to take place, the guides have to me moved out of the way.
If the heads have some miles on them, they are core drilled and driven clear out and tossed.

Often, porting is done to new heads, so the guides can be pushed towards the spring area, enough to get them out of the way so porting can be done.
Then, after your porting is finished, the guides get pushed back into place.

It's easier than re-installing them completely from scratch.
They are less likely to 'smear' and take material from the guide boss/hole that way.

When porting an intake, your goal is an even taper from your Butterfly to the seat.
The cross-sectional area of the port should shrink evenly as it drops down.
This is tricky when you have to pass the valve stem and guide, so the port will be 'widened' as it goes around the guide boss.
It's also prudent to thin the cross-sectional area of the guide boss' streamline it, so the air flows around.
Often, bigger ports won't have an intake guide boss at all.
The exhaust guide boss is needed for strength, and resist the exhaust guide coming loose.

When I port a set of heads, I make up some cardboard 'paddles' - kind of go/no go little round spoon looking things to stick up in the port.
Essentially a gauge, to show exactly how much material is removed from where in the port.
I might mark a line on the stem of the paddle to get it in the port the exact same depth each time.
The round spoon ends of the gauge are sized for a given area, say right next to the guide with a small one,
Or a big one, big as an, er, teaspoon, sometimes, to stick into the port this way and that, to make sure I have them all exactly the same as I can get them.

Once you make up some of these cardboard gauges, you can start seeing how your ports are 'necking down', or having areas with smaller diameter than is ideal.
Then you can see where to remove material...

It also helps to finger-bang as many pro-ported heads as you possibly can.
After you have done a couple of sets of them, you will never look at a set of heads at the swap meet the same again.
There are a lot of them done badly for sure...

Another thing is to get the 'bowl' area under the valve seat matched to the ID of the seat, but there's more.
If you can't make this bowl area shaped like an, er, bowl, and it starts taking a turn right after the seat, you will flow a lot less.
Just like you are unshrouding the chambers to allow flow around the valve head as it opens, you want room on the other, stem-side of the valve, too.
There is what they call the 'flow cone' around the valve, and it needs a bit of a straight shot as the seat meets the port.


Hope this all makes the foggiest bit of sense... bla bla bla...

Suffice it to say that the old adage "horsepower is in the heads" has proven itself to be true IMHO.
Time spent getting those heads _right_ might just be the biggest thing you could do to make power.

See if you can't maybe borrow a head off of someone that was done right that you could have sitting on the bench to copy while you port...

[Clatter]

This pic right here ^^^^^^

The 'bowl' area under the seat is small and constricting.
All of that material under the seat there, in a big ring, needs ported away.
And the guide is right there in the way!

Because you have already made the other side of the port, where the manifold bolts on, bigger, the 'bowl area is under-sized relative to the upper part of the port.
You kind of 'have to' open up the rest of the port to match now!

In the 'bowl' area, the far side of the turn it makes is known as the 'long side radius'.
This is a good place to increase the size of the port.
(But only if the guide is out of the way)

And, as it's been said elsewhere, you also want to be 'straightening' the shot the port makes as it comes in; so you can see more of the back of the intake valve when you look into the port.
At least on the intake side...

Often, the guides will be shortened, and tapered at the valve end to reduce their cross-section sticking in the way.

Here's a guy who really shows how to work this stuff:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095&highlight=vallero

My local auto parts place (FLAPS) has an automotive machine shop in back, and they pushed the guides out of my last set of heads for cheap.

Hope this helps. Don't mean to come across as a know-it-all or a nag.

Your build is really over the top, what with coatings and balance and.....
Opening that _One_ little spot in the heads would really un-cork her!
It's like a restrictor plate otherwise... I can't help but pipe up.. and on...

[andy198712]

Cheers buddy.

i know what your saying totally.

thing that worries me is how to push the guid back a bit safely?

Cheers

[andy198712]

So a quick update,

I slotted my lifters to add to the Hoover mods so they are now complete barring the rocker shafts but given my style of rocker that won't matter.

Started to mock up for a test of how long my pushrods need to be and start to look at valve geo as well to see where i am with that.

also found a porsche shroud for sale on an online shop speedster clinic, they mainly do 356 kits. but took the plunge and ordered it.

Also got my last few bits coming from RJ Volks, whom have looked after me very well and i would defiantly go back for any parts i needed!

Hopefuly get a bit further along! Oh i've also touched base with Matt Keane about getting my assembly dynamically balanced, also a tad nervous about my crank i DFL'd, it'll either be amazing! or i'll be tearing it apart to re polish and new bearings, no biggie either way to me, but you don't know if you don't try right??

i've kept a running tally of engine costs to build for the parts and currently at £2234, there is probably other sundries ect and tools and bits i've forgot that thats my tally thus far, should come in under £2500 all done.... although its spread over about 3 years 

cheers

[andy198712]

Double checked my decks, i'm getting 1.1mm on one side and 1.2mm on the other, which i'm happy with, i could try and sand down the shims to get them both on 1mm but i'm happy with them.

Hopefuly later i'll mock up with a soft spring on an inlet valve and work out my pushrod lengths and cut those. can also work out my geo as well which does confuse me some what at the minute.

Do i just set it at half at the valve, (using DTI) then look to see if the foot on the rocker is in a flat line parallel to the rocker gasket face, with the adjuster end?

Also how far in or out should i have my adjuster when i choose pushrod length?

Cheers

[richie]

Double checked my decks, i'm getting 1.1mm on one side and 1.2mm on the other, which i'm happy with, i could try and sand down the shims to get them both on 1mm but i'm happy with them.


Cheers

Hi Andy

keep at it

Have you tried swapping pistons around in different holes? often they have different individual deck heights and you can make it closer that way

cheers Richie

[andy198712]

Double checked my decks, i'm getting 1.1mm on one side and 1.2mm on the other, which i'm happy with, i could try and sand down the shims to get them both on 1mm but i'm happy with them.


Cheers

Hi Andy

keep at it

Have you tried swapping pistons around in different holes? often they have different individual deck heights and you can make it closer that way

cheers Richie

Cheers pal,
No not since i got these new pistons in ,could be worth a shot, is 0.1mm worth worrying about would you say?
its free to try so may as well...

[richie]

For a mild engine it probably wont make much difference but as you say swapping them around to check is free so worth doing   Even consider getting the pistons machined by the difference to make it 100%

cheers Richie