My First Engine Build....2110

[andy198712]

For a mild engine it probably wont make much difference but as you say swapping them around to check is free so worth doing   Even consider getting the pistons machined by the difference to make it 100%

cheers Richie

Hi,
I'll try and swap pistons around to cure it, can also try swapping rods I guess to try that also.
Again that's only time, then can always get them turned down a tad to get it bob on, would be a shame not to now I've been thinking about it.
Dropped you an email earlier about adding another bit to my order

Cheers!

[andy198712]

Changed one and two and got 0.02mm of a change in deck, thinking sliming might be good bet if the other two don't show much change

[andy198712]

Noticed one of my inlet valves was warped.... erhhhhh!  when shining a torch down i could see a sliver of light and it would move around like a light house as i rotated the valves, i tried other valves in this seat and it was fine, i also tried the valve in other seats and it did the same... another order in.
Also my shroud that arrived turned out to be 240mm (i did ask to make sure it was 260mm) so thats been sent back.

not been an amazing week for engine building but shit happens eh? 

[wph]

Noticed one of my inlet valves was warped.... erhhhhh!  Roll Eyes when shining a torch down i could see a sliver of light and it would move around like a light house as i rotated the valves, i tried other valves in this seat and it was fine, i also tried the valve in other seats and it did the same... another order in.

Market is full of cheap, no name brand stainless steel valves. Seen this a lot lately, most of them are not
ground concentric to the valve stem. Worst of them are 2-piece, stem and valve head are friction welded
and welding is covered with swirl polish. Buyer beware....just recently got a set of brand new "stainless"
38mm exhaust valves. Noticed small specks of rust just on the swirl polished area...

Pekka 

[andy198712]

Noticed one of my inlet valves was warped.... erhhhhh!  Roll Eyes when shining a torch down i could see a sliver of light and it would move around like a light house as i rotated the valves, i tried other valves in this seat and it was fine, i also tried the valve in other seats and it did the same... another order in.

Market is full of cheap, no name brand stainless steel valves. Seen this a lot lately, most of them are not
ground concentric to the valve stem. Worst of them are 2-piece, stem and valve head are friction welded
and welding is covered with swirl polish. Buyer beware....just recently got a set of brand new "stainless"
38mm exhaust valves. Noticed small specks of rust just on the swirl polished area...

Pekka 

This is a CB single groove valve but the heads are lightly used....

[andy198712]

I'd been putting off engine work as its cold and dark so early at the moment here.

but finally made up a little holding jig for my DTI so i can check valve geo. just out of a bit of angle aluminium i had in the shed.

as it turns out apparently i lucked in on my setup and i have good geo out the box, which made a change!

this is max lift, in mm and inch, which i worked out that my rockers are 1:42 ratio so pretty close to 1:4!





and this is half lift which where i checked my pushrod VS adjuster angle and its as straight as i can tell which is a good thing, and the lift pad seems to be in the middle of the lash cap (again a good thing)









And having coloured in the lash cap with black marker (poor mans machinist blue) it showed i had a good swipe pattern also! which to be honest i was surprised about!



So next is to re check the side play on the rockers and try and track down some side play shims (the shafts are 19.3mm which is bigger then stock )

And also to start marking my flywheel up to drill to act as a trigger wheel....

Then measure crank endplay and order some shims, and drop it off with Matt Keane to get it balanced!

[Peter]

looks good!
you ll be happy when its finished

[andy198712]

looks good!
you ll be happy when its finished

Thanks!
Tell me about it!!  while driving my 1200 i keep imagining what it would be like having more power on tap!
Its my first build and its by no means a high price build for this kind of size, but it should make me smile!

[Clatter]

Loving this build..

FWIW, my head guy puts the valves in the valve grinder to true them up, even new ones.
It was interesting to see new valves 'touch off' in a spot first, before getting ground a bit and hitting all around.

So,
Maybe try and have your bad valve ground, and it might actually be save-able.
And,
If you get a new one, have it chucked up and touched off first.
This is SOP at any FLAPS that does machine work, regardless of what kind of cars they do.

Ever port the bowls out on those heads?
If you aren't up to having the guides moved out of the way,
You might do well to use a smaller tool, like a Dremel, and do your best to smooth the transition under that seat area...

I know how it goes with 'Enough Is Enough';
You could literally go on forever with these things.
Comes a point where it has to go together...

FWIW, I *love* my 86b-cammed motor.
It's only a 1914, but has large hairy balls that swing side-to-side slow like a pendulum.
Big and badass down low, and evil up top too; All-around gnarly.
You'll see what I mean...

[andy198712]

So from that I put that rocker on the base of the cam which I could see nicely through the sump plate hole and measured my 0.6mm lash and locked off my pushrod and checked about 7 times, removed the rockers and adjustable pushrod and measured it out. Came to 274mm,
So laid out my pushrod and measured about 20 times before putting on a blob of marker pen then scoring into that.
Then started slowly on my pipe cutter. The first one too takes but the next 3 were quicker as I got used to how it was cutting ect.
4 down tonight and leaving it for tomorrow to finish, but hard on the hands!

[andy198712]

Loving this build..

FWIW, my head guy puts the valves in the valve grinder to true them up, even new ones.
It was interesting to see new valves 'touch off' in a spot first, before getting ground a bit and hitting all around.

So,
Maybe try and have your bad valve ground, and it might actually be save-able.
And,
If you get a new one, have it chucked up and touched off first.
This is SOP at any FLAPS that does machine work, regardless of what kind of cars they do.

Ever port the bowls out on those heads?
If you aren't up to having the guides moved out of the way,
You might do well to use a smaller tool, like a Dremel, and do your best to smooth the transition under that seat area...

I know how it goes with 'Enough Is Enough';
You could literally go on forever with these things.
Comes a point where it has to go together...

FWIW, I *love* my 86b-cammed motor.
It's only a 1914, but has large hairy balls that swing side-to-side slow like a pendulum.
Big and badass down low, and evil up top too; All-around gnarly.
You'll see what I mean...

Hello,

Yeah I don't blame him, I'm supprised as these wads I brought with 400miles on them, must have ran terrible like that...

I've already ordered another bit can see if this one can be trued and kept as a spare maybe... Ill ask around and see what the locals are charging

No not yet, kind of like you say. If I get the guides done and I'd replace them, then get them reamed ect and it'll add to the cost a fair bit, so decided if I end up ready to roll an just waitin on my shroud I'll do what your saying and port more with a small Dremel tool, are you just removing the boss essentially??

Good to hear on the 86b! I hear its a lot like an fk8 just a tad better on the valve train and maybe comes on a tad sooner or broader... Who know but can't wait!
I think it should drive nice! Too much power low down is hard to be smooth with as small throttle openings do big things! I find that on my dirt bike and you end up feathering the clutch a lot to compensate and smooth the power where you need to be smooth (single 540cc enduro bike)

Cheers

[andy198712]

Just realised I set my vales to 0.06mm which is 0.002 inch
Total brain fart!!
Wants to be 0.006in or 0.15mm.... Oh well thank fook for adjusters!

[andy198712]

So moving on from that lol

I cut all my pushrods, need to tide them up, clean them out and assemble them.

This morning I cleaned the mating surface between the crank and flywheel, put the scat 36mm bolt on as tight as I could with a normal 12in ish rachet and checked run out, I got 0.06mm on the outer surface. Which is 0.002in and I'm happy with that goin by john mahyer's site as it's the same as his 2110 he is writing about building too.

Checked my end play with no shims and I get 1.18mm

But do I need the flywheel torqued to spec to check these or as tight as I can with a rachet enough for checks? Ill torque it to spec before I order any end play shims. But for the purpose of run out this seems ok

[andy198712]

my latest efforts...



drilled to be a trigger wheel just needs finishing

[andy198712]

trigger wheel all done



next job is double check all my my stroker clearance and send it off for balancing!

[andy198712]

Set my oil pump engaugment today, aircooled.net recommended .225in-.285in so I set mine at .275

You fit the pump, when you insert the top gear I clocked it 90degrees out of alignment with the slot in the cam, then measured how proud it was, this gives engaugment depth.



Also flushed my pushrods with a solvent and air line after finishing and lightly chamfering the inner to remove any burrs.
Hope to fit the tips later by using two bits of wood with a drilling in them to locat the tips nicely.

I know a lot of people use old lifters and I may revert to that but want to try a softer route first!

[andy198712]

Got my push rods finished up today, I didn't realise I needed to deepen the counter bore on them so after the first one I learnt my lesson! But hey ho! No chance of gettin the tip out after trying for an hr.

Then I re checked my stroker clearance and did a little more on the back side of number two rod (where it gets close to the case, I didn't clearance the rod)

Stripped it down again and will fit my full flow fitting to the case after I clearance for that too.

Also checked cam bolt to oil pump clearance and that needs work also, I shaved the rear of the pump but it still kisses, it's the writing on the bolt heads. So will file those down to remove the writing, then take 1/2mm extra I think.

Next on the list is get it the rotating stuff balanced.
Then do another wet mock up and set the crank endplay, and hopefuly have a porsche shroud by then so I can mock up that my ITB linkage and mount those, work out the bugs ect.

Hopefuly I'm getting close!!

I've also decided I'll buy a thermostat sandwich plate from mocal to go on my filter head. To my setrab cooler and in the return line from that, an 80c fan switch for a fan I'm yet to buy
I'll get the thermostat plate that opens at 80 also.
This mean no oil cooler action untill 80 so hopefuly quicker warm up for driving in "sunny cornwall"
I also do fairly short journeys for work too.

It's coming along! Which is good as my 1200 is getting pretty clanky!!

[richie]

Andy,

You can get allen button bolts for the cam gear that give a lot more clearance if you want a simpler option

cheers Richie

[modnrod]

The button head bolts are also (I think......) about the lightest bolt style you can get too.
I used them everywhere on my project dragbike and saved 4kg, just in bolts, over the normal hex bolt.
Think of the saving in rotational weight! 

[andy198712]

Cheers guys,

I got these



That came with my cb gears, I only used the bolts as they came with the cam... And there an odd size allen head, something like 5.5mm?? Imperial?

[modnrod]

Yeah, them. 
7/32?

[andy198712]

Yeah, them. 
7/32?

i take them into work tomorrow, the helicopters i work on are in the devils scale

[andy198712]

Finally an update

So, tracked down a fan shroud for the porsche fan from Jussin on here, can't wait to get it!

Secondly, i found a chap in cornwall who does engine balancing, "Full Engine Balancing Service" Peter Williams, we spent about an hr chatting, he road races a MK2 escort and builds some pretty special engines for them, also had some BMW M3 stuff in, but a true car guy! after speaking to him i knew he was my kinda guy!

anyway, he sent me these pictures, so i thought i'd share them, he balanced it by each component not just as a whole.

Crank and front pulley balanced



finished balanced weight of the crank and front pulley



This is when he added my flywheel... way off!!



this is the flywheel balanced



here it is ready to all be balanced



What he removed from the paper light front pulley to get it to his exact standards (light weight scat power pulley)



here is what he removed from the clutch, he said this part was pretty close out the box (kennedy stage 1)



and this is he final results of the balance job with all parts bolted on

[andy198712]

MY pistons were close, something like 0.3-0.4gram between them but i brought that down to 0.1gram today.

also installed and checked the low profile allen bolts for the cam gear, they now clear nicely.

Also ground down and test fitted my full flow fitting, that went well and will be sealed when the engine is nearer completion so i can put it at the right angle i want.

things left to do,

Set the end play on the crank, will need to get some shims for that i think!

clean the shit out of the case, then test fit the barrels and head to set the height for the head studs, and locktite those in place, probably blue.

debating wether to drill and tap the case where the pump would normally feed to, my pump is blocked but unsure wether to do the case too... the hole is 11.8mm, so not sure what to thread it to.

buy another split centre main bearing, due to needing two sets for my crank and one is a scuffed to the copper.

choose and buy what i will use as assembly lube and also case sealant.

then its clean, clean and dean and start to build the long block!

[andy198712]

So got a bit more done today,

Doing a mock build, minus valves and push rods (will do those tomorrow) so i can test fit my 911 shroud and start shaping that to fit around my manifolds, being fibreglass its easy to shape with a burr in a drill. also did some match porting on my manifolds.

tomorrow i'll build up the heads and install the push rods and turn it over a few times just to check everything is working as it should!

i also brought a block of aluminium to make a bypass block out of to bolt where my stock cooler will go. so will start that soon.

i also brought some T3 cool tins to work with my 911 shroud and have been trimming those and the behind pulley tin to fit..

Still need to buy a sidewinder exhaust, thinking 1 5/8in over 1 1/2in.

So also most the final build stage, just need to buy break in oil and lubes and sealant and i can start building for the final time! then work out the fuel systems and oil systems ect.

Getting there!

[modnrod]

i also brought a block of aluminium to make a bypass block out of to bolt where my stock cooler will go. so will start that soon.

I have to do the same. In between getting a cheap bypass adaptor block and looking at the stock doghouse mounting block, I'm thinking I might make up my own out of 90* tubing bends brazed to an angle-plate for mounting. I don't like the idea of the sudden right angled turn in the middle of the block (just me, I'm sure it will be OK on the day so to speak? Dunno........).

You're miles ahead of me mate, all I've managed to do is get the pistons machined and ready and order some cheap conrods to get ready for working over when they get here.

[andy198712]

i also brought a block of aluminium to make a bypass block out of to bolt where my stock cooler will go. so will start that soon.

I have to do the same. In between getting a cheap bypass adaptor block and looking at the stock doghouse mounting block, I'm thinking I might make up my own out of 90* tubing bends brazed to an angle-plate for mounting. I don't like the idea of the sudden right angled turn in the middle of the block (just me, I'm sure it will be OK on the day so to speak? Dunno........).

You're miles ahead of me mate, all I've managed to do is get the pistons machined and ready and order some cheap conrods to get ready for working over when they get here.

I have been working on it for a good few years mind
I know what your saying, and the cheap bypass blocks are pretty low I thought, making the sharp turn you mentioned, the block of ally I brought is 38mm deep and I plan to drill two holes 30mm into it where the in and out are for the engine case, then join them up, making a large slot, so will essentially be a 30mm deep slot between the two holes. If that makes sense...
And it only cost me £7 to buy

[modnrod]

I have been working on it for a good few years mind

Yeah, me too! 

[andy198712]

Making progress!
I brought a 25litre pale of "gun wash" think its thinners, and 30litre tub and cleaned the case well! (Looks pretty dry now though...?)
I test fitted the head studs and checked depth with a barrel and head then blue locktited them in place.
Next I cleaned the crank and again, locktited its little galley plugs in place.
Applied millers assembly lube to the side of my cleaned lifters and dropped them in, webcam cam lubed the faces (thick stuff!)
Layed in the cam bearings and applied lube, bolted cam gear to cam and locktited that again... Dropped that in.

Lubed and torqued the rods to the crank, laid that in its bearings in the left hand case half and ran out of time here!

Will finish up some more tomorrow.

Thinks not to forget:
Main bolt o rings!
Cam plug!

I also them painted the installed parts with a mix of oil and stp to stop them rusting.

I'll do the case too as it looks so dry!

Some pics!



Slot to dot!



And dot to dots


Very sticky that webcam stuff!!

[andy198712]

So having got the short block together.

Today I soaked the heads in thinners and have them another scrub (feeling worse for wear!)
Put assembly lube on the valve stems and put my .060 valve shims in place and set to work fitting the collets and retainers... Bit fiddly but so much easier with these springs instead of doubles!
Once done I put a blob of cam lube on the valve tips and pushed my lash caps on.



While the heads were soaking I set about cleaning my barrels and pistons and the ring (amazing how much black stuff was on the rings!)
Check the ring gap and came out at .4mm so spot on.
I also spent some time polishing the pins and bosses to make them a nice slide fit with lube.

Next I stuck on my barrel shims on with Curil and fitted the pistons to them.
Then spent ages trying to get the pins through the little ends, two went first try and the other two took ages to get the right angle!
Fitted my true arc clips and slid them home!

Bolted the heads down in the two step method that vw reccomend (start in a set order with 7ft/lbs then another order for the final torque) and that's the long block pretty much done!
Need to bolt up the rockers and fine tune the side play.
Set the crank end play and I'm pretty much there!