My First Engine Build....2110

[andy198712]

20mpg...
Tbh I was getting 17 with the carb doing the same around town driving but I'm making a lot more power and using it! All the time
 But I'm still tuning and pretty rich in places, not turned on fuel cut yet ect.... I'm aiming for 25 around town really.... And more on a run, mid 30's
But I need to give my ecu more information first and tune it a little better, maybe try "ITB MODE" in megasquirt that blends a TPS ve map with a MAP map.
At the moment I just use map which ITBs aren't known well for! And TPS for acceleration enrichment. I also have not tried the fuel cut feature yet on over run, and idle rich due to no temp sensor yet.
So should be able to pick up that 5mpg.


Engine was sounding a bit odd last night then I noticed the quiet packs muffler tip had half snapped off and was flapping.... It's about 3000mile old...
So I have a 1 5/8 side winder header in the loft but no silencer.... So I've brought a 180 2in bend, another o2 bung and a GSXR silencer...
I'm hoping it'll tuck under the valance but if not I'll run it along the right hand side of the engine and maybe duct it out infront of the rear wheel...
I'll work something out!

[andy198712]

So,

been making up a flange from some steel plate i have, its 5-6mm so should dos the job, that coupled to the 50mm (2in) 180 degree bend i have thats 1.5mm thick should be able to make something up, and not being silly thin should weld ok, and last okay too! if it works well i'd probably make one out of stainless in the future.

Also on the manifold front, i'm looking at making some new ones, i was planning on using some Hillborn manifolds as there more upright, giving more space for the TBI's again the side of the car.... but FEDEX seem to have lost those 

so just ordered up some steel tube and i'll shape the ends to match my oval port which will hopefully end up OK but we'll see! again, 6mm plate bases and tops, and steel tubing.

i just brought my first MIG welder too which will help no end!

i'm pondering over how tall to make the manifolds also... need to do a little math there i think!

[andy198712]

So..... Given FEDEX are still messing me around and just ignoring me pretty much it seems...

i brought some steel tube and some 5mm plate i had, started cutting out the oval ports on the plate and shaping the pipe to fit, just takes ages cutting out an oval shape in thick plate! without a CNC or plasma cutter! then i'll weld those up and have them sitting more inboard then the current manifolds i have... and tweet them if needed, cheap little project though, only £7 so far! not including the welder or the 3 drill bits i've wrecked so far 

the exhaust works well though, its louder then i though to be honest, and keep an eye out for a slightly freer flowing one but i do like it.

[andy198712]

heres the RH side done



and quick coat of high temp black



tempted to shape them a little more in the top to look nicer, but need the car back on the road at the min so that can wait, hoping the bolts fit.... gonna be tight and will be using those 11mm brass ones i think!

[andy198712]

Well, there on, not a lot of room for nuts so the other manifold will be made with this in mind! also they lay out further then i thought so again this will be addressed at a later date, they fit fine ect, but just not how i want them to 

also got a nasty rich spot at 30mph in 3rd up hills at light throttle, as i was auto tuning with a vac leak i didn't know about.... more tuning needed i feel! runs well and its good having the fuel cut enabled, it cuts the fuel on over run so i save fuel, run cooler and better engine braking. will see what MPG it nets me, i was on 23MPG if i recall... which was 20MPG at first then i leaned up the light throttle and cruise and got 23... so hopefully see an improvement now!

[richie]

Well, there on, not a lot of room for nuts so the other manifold will be made with this in mind! also they lay out further then i thought so again this will be addressed at a later date, they fit fine ect, but just not how i want them to 

also got a nasty rich spot at 30mph in 3rd up hills at light throttle, as i was auto tuning with a vac leak i didn't know about.... more tuning needed i feel! runs well and its good having the fuel cut enabled, it cuts the fuel on over run so i save fuel, run cooler and better engine braking. will see what MPG it nets me, i was on 23MPG if i recall... which was 20MPG at first then i leaned up the light throttle and cruise and got 23... so hopefully see an improvement now!

Some interesting words from Dave Walker in Practical performance car on why bike throttle bodies aren't a good idea in cars, all to do with low speed throttle openings/ratios and they are to quick opening so difficult to set up at low speeds, worth a read if you got a few minutes in Tesco or Smiths

[andy198712]

Well, there on, not a lot of room for nuts so the other manifold will be made with this in mind! also they lay out further then i thought so again this will be addressed at a later date, they fit fine ect, but just not how i want them to  

also got a nasty rich spot at 30mph in 3rd up hills at light throttle, as i was auto tuning with a vac leak i didn't know about.... more tuning needed i feel! runs well and its good having the fuel cut enabled, it cuts the fuel on over run so i save fuel, run cooler and better engine braking. will see what MPG it nets me, i was on 23MPG if i recall... which was 20MPG at first then i leaned up the light throttle and cruise and got 23... so hopefully see an improvement now!

Some interesting words from Dave Walker in Practical performance car on why bike throttle bodies aren't a good idea in cars, all to do with low speed throttle openings/ratios and they are to quick opening so difficult to set up at low speeds, worth a read if you got a few minutes in Tesco or Smiths

Very interesting, makes sense also, as the bikes actually have dual throttle plates probably to counter this reason... i have these removed as controlling them would have be .... well.
back on MAP tune but god knows why, TPS worked better in a shorter time, MAP will get there but i feel its more a single throttle thing (map)


i'm playing with going single TB tbh
Pro's : no sync, easier to tune, one cable, less to go wrong, easier to turbo
Con's: getting something to fit my 911 shroud, which holds the injectors too... would maybe be making something or a spacer block and then CB end castings ect... nothing i couldn't work around

[andy198712]

had a quick read of it, i know what he's saying, they do make for a very responsive bottom end, IE a little throttle does a lot!

i'm thinking i'll switch back to aTPS tune, MAP just isn't ideal for ITBs i don't think. although a lot would argue a MAP tune is better as it reads load ect. but when i had TPS it was better i felt, with a engine like mine being powerful in a light car... it never really under a lot of load if that makes sense, in that 30%throttle on a flat won't be that much diff to 30% on a slope (i'm talking ish here) and i found i was able to tune it well like that....

just need the time to play with it! loads of jobs taking up my spare time at the minute!

[dive!dive!]

I use TPS for fuel and MAP for ignition (Load) , works great. Can you do that with MS ?

[andy198712]

I use TPS for fuel and MAP for ignition (Load) , works great. Can you do that with MS ?

my MS is about 20 odd years old, its the basic MS1 2.2, i need to upgrade to the MS2 V3 or above and then they have ITB mode, which blends MAP and TPS on both tables to get the best of both worlds....

But.... thats in the future lol if i haven't going single TB and turbo by then 

[andy198712]

Photobucket..... the joys!

the car has been garaged for a while, but i'll get back into it soon, got a new sump to go on the car as mine leaks from a pinhole. and got a new nice billet oil cooler block off to go on.... and looking at single TBing it this year maybe? it'll be easier if i turbo it and give better MAP signal to get a nice smooth street tune i feel.

[andy198712]

Well this week I hatched a plan....

I ordered some mild steel yesterday to make another set of manifolds......

38mm tube for the runners
20mm round bar to make indie for bungs
20mm square bar to make fuel rails.

So each port will have its own runner and injector mounted at the best angle I can get, will decide once mocked up.

These will run into a central plenum and single throttle body which I think will be about 48mm

This should give me good map signal so I can play around tuning easier and more accurately then the ITBs and better mpg, not that I really care as it’s a toy, it’s just a fun goal.

And we all know why single throttle body is easier then 4...... lay the foundations for a turbo

I’ll post pics as I go with the manifolds, need to buy some more 6mm plate tomorrow.

[Bug_man]

Could see two pictures, and only one from you would love to see pics:)

[andy198712]

One roughed out and drilled, need to use my pillar drill and core bits for the big holes.... 6mm plate takes some getting through!

[andy198712]

Did a few little jobs today on the beetle, first time ive worked on it in a while!

Removed the old sump as it had a pin hole in it, and got a smaller one to go one, but as i removed it i noticed the oil pickup extension rolling around in there..... i'd metal epoxied that on.... live and learn, i'll use the juberlee clip this time! will fit that up tomorrow i think.

i also removed the porsche fan to look at fitting a second oil breather, currently it has a AN10 from the dizzy hole but i'm going to add another from the fuel pump hole next to it.

Also noticed my oil lines leaking, the barb and clamp ones, either at the hose or the screw fitting.... but my SocketLess oil lines are bone dry..... it seems if you pay 4 times as much per fitting they don't leak  so i'll replace the full low oil lines and fitting with SocketLess fittings and AN8 lines.


I also noticed an axel seal leaking too! the job list is expanding but i'll get there!


I eyeballed up some ideas for the intake system today too which should hopefully get more of a feel for tomorrow.

So here is 1.5inch pipe which when squashed to the oval shape will fit perfectly....



i removed the TPS from the WBX throttle body which is just an on or off switch and noticed the end happens to be just like the throttle body i have already off an MG



the splindle is a diff size but i can work around that, just need to make up an adapter for the mounting and i'm there



Getting there !

[andy198712]

Fitted my smaller sump and pickup tube today, used the red locate 518 sealant for the sump to engine and no gasket, and blue loctited the bolts, then 518 and a paper gasket for the sump plate and new copper washers.

Then removed the throttle bodies.... end of an era there! 

this let me remove the fan shroud so i can replace the oil cooler block off i'm convinced is leaking... replaced that with a nice billet item that uses OEM seals, so 518 sealed them too but need to drill out the holes to take an M8 bolt.

cleaned up the case a bit as its an oily mess! before removing the shroud i offered up the plenum, i'm sure i can make it work and pump some boost in this engine 

got home and made up a second oil breather out of a fuel pump block off and a AN10 pocketless fitting.

Tomorrow i'll have another go at that oil cooler block off and start tidying things up, maybe look at the new intake i want to make.

i also have a complete wiring loom to go in the car which will be nice to not constantly have little wiring snags and rats nest wiring!



Hopefuly make use of that boss on the side one day 

[andy198712]

I’ve been slow and on holiday and this week I’m away for work, but brought a fibreglass short beetle bonnet which are extremely hard to get in the uk!!

Need to in gear a bit more and get these manifolds made!

I did buy a megasquirt v3 board and will start to slowly build that up as and when’s though.

[andy198712]

i had some of he parts laying around so just need to work out what i do and don't have then put an order in of parts, i seem to have the more expensive parts it seems so thats cool!



and today i knocked up a little adapter to mount a TPS from a modern MG and i think BMW..? onto my VW T25 2.1 throttle body



slowly getting there!

[brewsy]

H Andy,
Just found this thread.
Good work!!!

Can I ask if you ever made it to a dyno??

Cheers
Marc

[andy198712]

H Andy,
Just found this thread.
Good work!!!

Can I ask if you ever made it to a dyno??

Cheers
Marc

Thanks

No which is pretty silly of me, i will once this intake is done though, found a place that remapped my BMW semi local which were happy to do it

[andy198712]

Well, i guess i should update this!

so the non engine side of it goes like this...

my car club at work have project bays where you get a 3 month slot in a bay wide enough for two beetles, my pan gasket leaked. so i've split the body and done/doing the following:


New frame head (mine had a fist sized hole behind the lower beam tube!!)
New narrowed beam (ordered 4in but its more like 3in which i noticed after i cut a set of leaves, live and learn, trust no one)
New correct bolts to allow for caster shims
New caster shims
New Limebug dropped disc spindles
New Febi ball joints
New zimmerman discs (currently running drums)
New wheel bearings
New Polo rack and pinion bracket from Alex on here
Used polo rack and pinion and tie rods
New brake hard lines
IRS brackets welded in
IRS trailing arms which will get brakes renewed
IRS gearbox
New gearbox cradle and HD VW OEM mounts
New poly bushes for spring plates and IRS arms
New spring plate covers
New gene berg mid mount
New 5.5in steel wheels powder coated satin black
New full pan set of pan bolts and special washers
New chassis gasket
New complete custom wiring loom
New OEM fuse board
Fibreglass bonnet (searched for years to find a short bonnet in the uk!!)
New Hookys engine bay side panels (thick metal and well made!)


So the engine side of things...

Repaint of my 911 fan unit.
New MS2 or 3 v3 ECU (building slowly)
New 30mm oil pump
New AN10 lines through out and socketless fittings
New VWSPEEDSHOP SP1 manifolds (without throttles) and stainless AN fuel rails
New VWSPEEDSHOP 52mm billet throttle body (beautiful!)
New VWSPEEDSHOP intake pipe work


And after all that i need a new credit card if anyone has one going ?? 

at least i know it will all be fresh and as good as it can be when it goes back on the road!! hopefully handle better too!

Big thank you to Richie for alot of helpful in put and parts and Paul at VWSPEEDSHOP who's intake system is very well made and looks amazing!

Its all taking alot longer then i thought as i didn't plan the frame head replacement but when i removed the beam and saw that huge hole.... this theme continued the more i stripped it down sadly! but at least its sorted now!! or at least it will be when i'm finished and most importantly it should be super reliable so i can get to some cool shows and even go abroad in it hopefully!
anddddd then turbo it too.... hence the change to single TB 

I'll sort some pictures soon! only got 3 more weeks in the project bay and need to crack on and get it rolling again so i can vacate it before my slot is up.


Cheers

Andy

PS thats the first time i've made a list and its scary 

[andy198712]

Finished up the beam today, i think its more like 3 inch narrowed instead of 4 inch but alls well that ends well!

actually felt like I'm getting somewhere today with the beam on, dropped spindles and discs with fresh bearings in.  recently its seemed like i'll never finish but today was a good day 

once i settle on a ride height i can order up my ProTech Billet shocks 

its my goal to get to a drag/show once its finsihed, in Europe would be even cooler, we can all dream huh 

[andy198712]

[andy198712]

the mayhem!

[andy198712]

Cant wait to get these on the engine with the billet throttle body (not pictured)



just need match porting but loads of meat there!

[andy198712]

Well its been a very long hard summer holiday but its back on the ground on all 4 wheels!



ignore the rear camber, its sat on the bump stops as i havnt finished the spring plates yet 
still alot of work to do but the most of it has been done! after xmas hopefully it'll be finished..... he says 

[modnrod]

 

[andy198712]

Progress has been pretty slow! currently working nights which is nice from a work point of view for me but bad from a sleep/car point of view! and buying a flat which has its own engine building room! (i think its called a living room??) 

anyway, i'm re doing the oil system as i had marginal oil pressure, it was okay but on the lower end of the scale id say! and ended up using 10w60 oil.
i think part of that was due to the HVX mods creating more places for oil pressure to escape among other things. flow vs pressure i guess!

i removed the 26mm pump today which is a tight fit in the case so no issues there. it looks perfect so i'll use it for my original engine for this cars rebuild when i do that (stock 1200)

iron pump cover also looks good and is flat.

the one thing that played on my mind was that i didn't plug the case at the oil outlet, just the pump. so i'm fitting a freeze plug to that if the one i have choose fits correctly, this seems the best way to do with without splitting the case which i don't really want to do at the minute. its only got about 5 k miles on it or less?

i've sanded flay the new 30mm pump and i'm going to port the intake as i did the 26mm one, i'm also going to port the pump cover too, basically the outlet hole on the pump cover could do with a few touch ups to match the outlet area of the pump.

probably doesn't need it but can't harm.

once this is done i'll start converting all my oil lines to AN10 push fit hose. currently have barbs and clamps to the filter then AN10 from the thermostat plate to the cooler.
should cure the annoying little oil leaks.

i'm also adding the second slightly larger Setrab oil cooler in series with my other Setrab cooler too. the smaller one on it own (no stock oil cooler) did fine and didn't have a fan, but again, i plan to add a turbo in the near future and couple that with wanting to do some long trip. won't harm.

So that's the oil system sorted once thats complete.

one thing i noticed about my IRS conversion is the allen bolts i brought and washers, the washers seem to have too big ID. so will measure up the correct size i need and order some thick equivalent size washers. currently the washer will fit over the head of the bolt so really doesn't serve an purpose
 These where sold as IRS bolt and washers from one of the big uk sellers (forget which) at about ?25 per side..... i didnt just hash it together.

also cutting out the old rusted engine side trays and replacing with Hooky's panels which look amazing quality!

i also want to add in some tar board to the engine bay but haven't seen well reviewed set yet.... so i can hide extra wiring and keep it looking nice and clean in there with the 911 fan.

then i need to work out the Polo rack conversion i'm doing, speficially  the tie rod setup. current thought is mount it all up, see where my tie rods need to be and cut the Polo tie rod ends off and weld in the correct threaded ends for the tie rods as the Polo currently it M12 or 10 at a guess and i need M14 for late beetle spindles i have.
i did try the Polo track rods but the tapered part is too small sadly.

pushing a car around with the front wheels going in separate ways is like herding kittens!

the car is a long way off being ready but closer then it was when i started  at least i have the winter to work on it, i don't want to use it on out salty roads again!

Cheers

Andy

[andy198712]

Well i'm slowly plodding away, keep getting sent up to MOD BOSCOMBE for work which is really getting in the way! 

the steering rack is loosely fitted, i'm just working out the double jointed linkage at the minute, need to do some cutting and welding on that.

the engine is back in, more a mental thing than anything. just helps the car look finished!

Also things are taking a bit of a turn....

Fitted my SP1 manifolds..... don't even attempt that without the super slim allen head nuts.... 
having to work out the intake piping a bit too due to the porsche fan.

Also have a Holset HX40 in the post on its way to me............... 
can fit up my water/meth setup also and sort a charge cooler at some point....

its slowly getting there!  pics will follow this week when i get some time on it 

[andy198712]

It’s quite a large turbo.... [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]