Interesting topic.......

[Russell]

So finally I have the balls to post.... this may not be to everyone's liking so I will apologise in advance..... mmmm, nope I wont.

Why is that there seems to be nothing interesting going on in the VW Scene anymore, the lounge once a great place with great people, even seems to be quite and most topics are of little interest, over the last year or so Ive seen our loveable little bugs as they were truly intended for standard and stock grow on me even more, so much so that whilst I love the history and the old gassers and cal look, the whole hobby seems to have went AWOL, I mean how much same bus's and patina cars can we take.....

Even the magazines once our main stay of the scene are struggling to print cars we can dream of owning, instead printing cars we would'nt want to own.....

I would appreciate your views on what you think and any advice to help me rekindle the vibe, if you want to moan at me for sharing my feelings, please don't, we should encourage open conversation and freedom of speech, or we will be no better than some of the dictators of the world.

One slightly down but not out VW fanatic.

Russell

[modnrod]

Gday Russell.

In my humble opinion the VW scene is becoming a bit stale due to the proliferation of expert opinion on what works and doesn't (eg. centremounts vs twin Webers), what's cool and isn't ('59s vs Superbugs), what's necessary or not (bumpers, T-bars, over-riders, blah, blah, blah). We have over the years allowed ourselves to be pidgeon-holed and "LOOKED" out of existence.

[Zach Gomulka]

I've noticed the traffic around here has really slowed as of late. I don't want to even think it, but perhaps the cal look resurgence we enjoyed over the last few years is over? The VW market really has gone to the Bus, and I think understandably so. I love beetles just as much as anyone on here, but they aren't nearly as practical as a bus is, especially to a family. A bus allows guys AND their families be a part of the scene, it's easier to justify the expense (even if the expense has gone out of control).

Also, I love it but this site is all about the past, very little is new. How long can you keep talking about the good old days?

[old dub lover]

totally agreed with you here

Can't remember the last time I picked a mag up and got excited, buses and rat-look really don't do it for me

[RichardinNZ]

Hi Russell
I agree thay it is disappointing that there are so few posts on here now.  Everyday I look but the number of posts per day seems to have dropped in the past year.  Has Facebook killed the forums?  It's a shame as there is so much knowledge out there still to be shared.  At least we aren't seeing the online arguments and disagreement that we see elsewhere (and never a trustworthy answer to the question that was asked by the original poster).

I lost heart with a number of the magazines many years ago as the cars were all being built with very large budgets that as a Dad with three young children seemed too far out of my reach. I enjoyed seeing them but also wanted to see cars that I could afford.  That's why I was pleased to help with TotalVW/Flat4.  However from what I see of them now there do seem to be more how to articles etc.  

Not sure what the answer is but I for one will still keep looking and posting my questions.

[Fastbrit]

 Has Facebook killed the forums?

You got it in one...

Look at all the different Facebook pages these days: Cal Look, OCIR, VW Gassers etc etc etc... instant posting, instant copying other people's photos - so easy to spread information (and a lot of disinformation, too...).

As for the cars featured by magazines, they can only feature cars that people build. Most shows these days are dominated by 'patina' (aka shit-look) cars and slammed Buses. I know it's a bit of a 'chicken and egg' situation – mags feature these cars, so more people want to build them, or is it the other way round? – but the truth is, if people really don't like these cars/Buses then they wouldn't build or drive them.

You could argue that forums like this are self-defeating in that people get the impression that they MUST follow certain 'rules' to be accepted. Facebook exposes those same people to a wider variety of styles and tastes without the need to register on several different forums.

Just my two cents... 

[RichardinNZ]

...Keith, you are making Facebook sound interesting...but I am still not going to join it as I have enough distractions already...

[Flow]

Can you just stop associating patina cars with shit look ?! Because I take it really personally... Ok, facebook killed forums, it's a fact. But maybe what's killing cal look is money, don't you think so ? I'm 24, student, my car is patina and with a stock engine, my dream is to make a real cal look but a resto will cost me a least 20000$...

I feel like you grew old, your income became bigger and you just forgot that it's getting more and more difficult to make a beautiful, clean and fast car...

As cool parts are getting old, rare and expensive, cal look become elitist, and people enjoy their VW as they can, letting paint in a bad shape because they can't spend their money in a full resto. That's as simple as that... They want to ride their car right now and not in 5 years.

The lounge is still a great place but you can't expect people to come here if they think you are "playing in an upper class".

[RIP356]

I used to buy a couple of magazines each month.
One of them I have given up on as its become a bit internetty since a well lnown editor left??
Every issue one of the writers has to put some feature car down , be it" the tyres are wrong" or "shame about the wiring"
If they have to have a go at the cars why have they bothered to feature them??
And not being an old fuddy duddy but the issue I bought a few weeks ago even had "fuck" in the write up I am sorry but kids buy the magazine and dont need that!
Its as though they think they deciede whats cool or allowed!!
End of rant
Has the net killed the scene??

[vwhelmot]

I`m in the process of rebuilding my 64 that I bought back after eight years and I`m not posting any rebuild threads or posts because I feel like these days show cars are not a big surprise like they used to be. I used to look really forward to just turning up at a show or reading a mag to check out the latest and greatest car.
 I`ve been out the scene for about eight to ten years because I felt it was getting a bit stale but that's just me. I too am bored of the patina look, its basically a lazy arse way of picking up a trophy or two and to be honest I think its bullshit.  It takes real effort and time to build a proper show car, the standard has gone up since I last showed my 64 in the volksworld show 05 and I`m going to great lengths to take my car to that level and I`m excited to get it back on display. It wont be seen on the net before it hopefully goes on a display somewhere at a show.
  I don't think its he internets fault, it was bound to happen but the spark is still there for me.

[Lids]

I agree and disagree with what has been said.

I am about to buy a bus, it will probably be left in patina mode as I don't have the money necessary to paint it.  I would love to have a shiny bus but buying the bus and fitting out the interior will leave me with no money to do anything else.  I am bored of rat look and unless it is a special vehicle it no longer deserves magazine space.

I prefer the build threads than looking at the finished pictures in a magazine, it really shows the level of detail that a few published pics cannot do justice to.

I remember the 150 odd pages on restowagen of the 56 convertible.  WOW. The work was truly amazing and most of it hidden.

Zach hit the nail on the head, the bus will allow the whole family (wife and 2 kids) to enjoy VWs.  I have just been told my engine is done and I need to pick it up, perhaps when the weather is drier I might change my mind as I enjoy blipping the throttle in my little bug.

[Jon]

I asked my wife one fall if I had received any new VW magazines lately, she told me that I hadn't received any since early spring, and that the subscriptions had run out.
Thats how I realized that they didn't play a big role in my life anymore. I remember the last few I got where I just flicked through to see if there was anything with a normal beam in there. Or a bus not looking like a SF trolley.

I guess Keith has a valid point about Facebook, it gives bigger perspectives on things, and I do get inspired... but I still play only with VW's.
Traditional cal-look is still an interest with me, even if I don't see the point sticking to "the rules"...  but you can analyze them a bit and try to keep within the spirit of things, without getting stuck in a rut...
I think and hope the lounge lives on

 

[Lee.C]

I buy VW magazines to surport our hobby/industry plain & simple......

Without them very few of us would have got into the "Scene"  

For me personally....

Its more about getting out a DRIVING aircooled cars, Not sitting at home with a half finished project in the garage that you keep talking about "Online" but will probably never finish.....

I have done over 35,000kms in my Aircooled cars this year alone..... Approx 10k in the 65 and the rest in my "Dirty" bus

Its emails like this that keep me going!
I hope Greg Bunch doen't mind me posting this


Subject: IT'S GREGG BUNCH HERE!

I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH YOUR CAR AT THE EBI5.  SO SORRY I COULD NOT CATCH UP TO YOU AND MEET YOU.
YOUR CAR IS JUST LIKE OUR OLD SCHOOL PRE-CAL LOOK CARS WERE WHEN I JOINED DKP IN 1966.
I’VE BEEN WANTING TO DO THE ANCHOR HEADER SIGN ON MY FENDERS BUT JUST HAVEN’T HAD THE NERVE.
I’LL INCLUDE A PICTURE OF MY CAR I HAVE NOW AND MAYBE TOMORROW A COPY OF MY ORIGINAL CAR IN 1966
THAT LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE YOURS NOW. I LOVE THE SINGLE SIDE OUT GLASS PACK MUFFLER.
I’M PROUD TO SEE THE OLD STLYLE COMING BACK
THERE IS A GUY IN DKG IN BELGIUM THAT HAS A RED CAR WITH RED TINTED WINDOWS (PLEXIGLASS), IT’S AWESOME.
I HAD THE BLUE TINT WINDOWS BACK IN 66 BUT IT WAS A PIECE OF BLUE PLEXIGLASS SINCE THERE HADN’T INVENTED WINDOW TINT THEN.
ANYWAY FINALLY GOT THIS OFF TO YOU AS WE JUST RETURNED TO THE STATES ON MONDAY.
SEE YA
GREGG



 

Lets get the Lounge back to where is used to be.......

[ovaldriver56]

The lounge is still a great place but you can't expect people to come here if they think you are "playing in an upper class".

I totally agree with that. I think the people on here are just so used to see high-end dragracers and hardcore cal-lookers that, for example a budget 56 oval like mine, doesn´t get them going any more. I mean, the amount of money that is spent on some cars here is just crazy.

The cal-look scene has become pretty stale. It´s all about the "right" parts, the stance and big engines. Im just so bored of seeing fuchs-wheels, narrowed beams and phat-boy mufflers. So many cars just vary sligthly from each other. Ok, maybee the color....but it has to bee the "right" one

It´s all about the rules these days. I often got asked, how I could dare to put 4-lug fuchs on my oval, ´cause that´s just not right! WTF ?

I loved the the times of colourful french-lookers and custom-bugs, where people just built their cars the way they liked, not after a certain "rule"!

Just my two cents

[Jeff68]

Russel...Zach (Dragstar67 LOL) and all of you....I thought I was the only one thinking and feeling this way.  I'll start by saying I still love Cal-Look cars the most and I never tire of seeing them. I think that some progression with more modern engine management (Fuel injection and ignition) should be welcomed but I still like the old school stuff (carbs and mechanical distibutors) too. As much as I Love Cal-look cars I love driving my car the most. When I drive it I could care less about if what I'm doing is totally "old school" correct or not. Every time I start to get bored with the magazines or peoples VW opinions I drive my car and all the negative thoughts go away.

I love original cars (stock not modified) too! Some cars are just cool and there's nothing you have to do with them to make them that way. We ae lucky enough to have a passion and appreciation for them.....Some people buy all sorts of different makes and models of cars and spend lots of money trying to make them cool. Old air cooled VW's are cool just the way they are. Just watch people who encounter an air cooled VW for the first time (cal-Look or not).....9 times out of 10 their reaction is always "that car is cool!"

Buses.....Yes, thay are practical, I think they're cool, and of course expensive to restore! My family (wife and three kids) are pressuring me to get a bus so we can all ride together to events and to the beach ect....I struggle with thoughts of selling my 2110 with IDA's powered bug to fund buying and restoring a bus almost every day! I just can't let go of my quick Beetle!

I live in Florida and the Patina thing is HUGE here. It's not really my thing but I still appreciate and see the appeal. Slammed and bagged, aggressively lowered cars are Big in Florida too...not my thing at all but people dig them. These two styles dominate Florida so I don't really fit in. Some Cal-Look here but not very many....I don't give a sh!t! I drive my car and love every minute of it., that's what it's all about!

All in all I do what makes me happy with my car, not because it's popular, matches the magazines, website forum opinions, car show judges, or local preference. Cal-Look VW's will ALWAYS be popular but the style will have it's ups and downs. I think sometimes we see so many of our cars that we take them for granted.....if you feel this way stop reading the magazines, web forums, and avoid VW car shows for a while. Then, go to a show without your car and see how you feel. I'll bet all you will think about is wishing you had your car with you and wanting to drive it!  My $0.02 Sorry for the rant...enjoy your car!!

[Lee.C]

Great summary:

I love original cars (stock not modified) too! Some cars are just cool and there's nothing you have to do with them to make them that way. We ae lucky enough to have a passion and appreciation for them.....Some people buy all sorts of different makes and models of cars and spend lots of money trying to make them cool. Old air cooled VW's are cool just the way they are. Just watch people who encounter an air cooled VW for the first time (cal-Look or not).....9 times out of 10 their reaction is always "that car is cool!"


100% agree

[Zach Gomulka]

Geez, just when I thought Dragstar67 had been forgotten!

I'll happily defend the "patina" look... As Flow said, not everyone can afford a $10k paint job, or has the time/skill to do it themselves. Does this mean they can't play? Go home and don't bring your car back until it has proper shiney paint? I think Flow has done a great job with his car, to me it looks like it was built back in the day and is a survivor. It's cool. Sometimes it's not what you do to a car, it's what you don't do. Restraint is tough. It has nothing to do with being lazy.
That's something I really like about UltraVW, they see that you can have loads of style and ratty paint. I own every Hot VW's from the beginning up to about 6 years ago where I lost interest. Everything became the same, and you had to have big bucks to play. It limits the people who can participate, possibly what has been unintentionally done here?

I've gotten to the point where a good "patina" car (or bicycle, or motorcycle, or anything) is the only style that really gets me off. For one, it's rare to find anything old that isn't beat to shit and needs a full resto, rarity makes it cool. I also feel like there isn't any middle ground when it comes to paint, it's all or nothing, if I'm gonna do it on my dime the shit better be perfect- and if it's perfect, then I've created a garage/trailer queen/monster that I'm afraid to drive, afraid of stone chips, etc. Get a scratch in old original paint and you know what? Fuck it, it just ads character! I truly believe that you can enjoy these old cars like they were meant to be enjoyed (when they were new) when they are less than perfect. It's a lot more fun, and fun is what it is all about, right?

Where did all the DKP guys go? All of the guys who started the cal look who were here a few years ago, they made this site pure gold. Did they grow tired of it also?

[Taylor]

You know what had a little to do with it Zach?  That stupid picture from the 1975 issue.  The one that shows 'How to' cal-look your car.  People love to post it every other day.  YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

[BeetleBug]

Thank you for posting this thread Russel. And yes, it is indeed interesting.

I had a look at the overall stats and the trend is clear. We see a rapid decline in new posts and a small decline in new topics. New members did of course decline after Trond had to close the registration page due to all the spammers in november and december 2013. Since then the stream of new members has been stable. Interestingly we have the approx same log ons and views. I think the stats says it all actually. When we stop replying people loose interest. When we stop replying people stop making new threads. This for example makes the classifides a lot more visuable and we quickly have a downward spiral.

Why do people stop replying? As with most things I believe our hobby has its up and down periods. Cal look is cool, then buses, then rat-look, then vintage speed, german look and so on. At the same time we get older and lets face it, how good are we at recruiting? There is little we can do about this apart from making sure we keep our little forum alive. We can continue blaiming this and that but in the end it is you that sits in front of your PC and choose if you wish to contribute to The Lounge or not.

Monthly Summary    New Topics    New Posts    
Nov 2014                   97                      692            
Oct 2014                    147                    865          
Sept 2014                   98                     901            
Aug 2014                   137                   1031            
July 2014                   151                    979          
June 2014                  162                   1179            
May 2014                   133                   1021          
April 2014                  148                   1201            
March 2014                182                   1226     
Febr 2014                  185                   1383     
Jan 2014                    164                   1470         
Dec 2013                   121                   1315       
Nov 2013                   177                   1200         
Oct 2013                    194                   1603            

[speedwell]

I make my small tour on the lounge all days, but I rarely find a subject which really interests me as those that Sarge, John Lazenby or other ancient posted here,

for the magazine , yes i'm still buying them , but it's very rare when i read them , only when there's some old cal look litterature or vw gassers  report or a rare report with a very interesting car  ,

i'm  really involved into cal look , but i can have an opinion  on others styles  , but  it seems that the patina look and rat look  are the best way to go for young peopl who don't have money as flow said , but i'm not  with  him when he said that you've to own the cool  parts to build a cal look , i say no , you can build a cal look in a suimple way , it's not written somewhere that you  need a DDS shifter or empi gauges to have a clean and simple cal look  , I know that I am badly placed to speak about that, but all my parts on my car are very favorites and not bought to show off

[Lee.C]

Thank you for posting this thread Russel. And yes, it is indeed interesting.

I had a look at the overall stats and the trend is clear. We see a rapid decline in new posts and a small decline in new topics. New members did of course decline after Trond had to close the registration page due to all the spammers in november and december 2013. Since then the stream of new members has been stable. Interestingly we have the approx same log ons and views. I think the stats says it all actually. When we stop replying people loose interest. When we stop replying people stop making new threads. This for example makes the classifides a lot more visuable and we quickly have a downward spiral.

Why do people stop replying? As with most things I believe our hobby has its up and down periods. Cal look is cool, then buses, then rat-look, then vintage speed, german look and so on. At the same time we get older and lets face it, how good are we at recruiting? There is little we can do about this apart from making sure we keep our little forum alive. We can continue blaiming this and that but in the end it is you that sits in front of your PC and choose if you wish to contribute to The Lounge or not.

Monthly Summary    New Topics    New Posts    
Nov 2014                   97                      692            
Oct 2014                    147                    865          
Sept 2014                   98                     901            
Aug 2014                   137                   1031            
July 2014                   151                    979          
June 2014                  162                   1179            
May 2014                   133                   1021          
April 2014                  148                   1201            
March 2014                182                   1226     
Febr 2014                  185                   1383     
Jan 2014                    164                   1470         
Dec 2013                   121                   1315       
Nov 2013                   177                   1200         
Oct 2013                    194                   1603            

Very very good points very very well put

[richie]

Can you just stop associating patina cars with shit look ?! Because I take it really personally... Ok, facebook killed forums, it's a fact. But maybe what's killing cal look is money, don't you think so ? I'm 24, student, my car is patina and with a stock engine, my dream is to make a real cal look but a resto will cost me a least 20000$...

I feel like you grew old, your income became bigger and you just forgot that it's getting more and more difficult to make a beautiful, clean and fast car...

As cool parts are getting old, rare and expensive, cal look become elitist, and people enjoy their VW as they can, letting paint in a bad shape because they can't spend their money in a full resto. That's as simple as that... They want to ride their car right now and not in 5 years.

The lounge is still a great place but you can't expect people to come here if they think you are "playing in an upper class".

Flow

I like seeing vw's out on the road, it doesnt matter if they are shiny new paint, faded original paint or scruffy ratty old paint, they all should still just be driven and I enjoy seeing all of them, I have had and still have shitty cars and good cars,but what I don't get and have a dislike for is making decent cars look old and shitty, sanding the paint etc to make them look old and patina'ed, to me that is just weird, people with no invention trying to look cool

From your posts that I have read you enjoy your car and are having fun with it, thats really all that matters   Fcuk what anyone else thinks  

hopefully this wont offend you



As for the rest, I personally think Cal look was defined in that 75 issue of Hotvws, anything different is not true to that then its not Cal look, but why pigeon hole your car, why do people get so hung up there car having a named look? why cant it just be a quick/hot/lowered/race/street/stock  etc etc vw?

Whatever it is its sure better and more fun than driving some modern box on wheels

Its a shame that the sites I enjoy have slowed down and not so many post, but every site is only as good as its members and if they choose not to start threads or post replies there is nothing anyone else can do


Lastly one for Russell

when was the last time you started a relevant to this site thread? a build thread? or Cal look story etc? we are all as bad as each other    

cheers Richie

[Lee.C]

VERY VERY good point Mr Webb.......

I know you don't really like me these days but you have made some excellent points about our scene & forums and I ALWAYS enjoy reading your posts/threads etc

[Rocket Ron]

Economic down turn = less cars or parts being bought or built = less posts and less interest

Ps busses, wrong forum  

[Neil Davies]

I log in here pretty much every day and I've noticed a decline in traffic too. However, that fits in with my own situation so I can't blame anyone! Personally, I've got a great looking (well, a 10 footer, but I love it!) Cal Looker that's been sat on my garden since January 2012. I need a motor for it so I started to do the valve springs on my 2007, did one head then got distracted by the race car, which has been sat with one heater channel missing for maybe three months. I've only been to my garage four times since September - I used to got two or three times a week. I haven't renewed my Outlaw Flat Four membership, and haven't been to a race meeting since the middle of 2013. I'm simply so busy with my new job that any spare time is being spent with my wife, not with cars. As a result I've got nothing to start a new thread about, nothing really to report on here, so I love reading about other people's projects because at least I can see what I'm missing!

Oh, and I won't do faceache, too many of the kids at school have it for my liking!

[Martin Greaves]

Maybe everyone is to busy building the cars to post on the forums. 

[Rocket Ron]

Forgot to say I've let my subscription to both volksworld and ultra lapse, something I thought I'd never do, can always remember the excitement of getting the new issue of volksworld and having to wait two months for the next one and reading them over and over again.

Don't go to many shows now either as there's only so many t5 vans you can look at in one go

Note to self, more track time and driving  

[Lee.C]

Just a little observation.....

Its all the "Original" crew/members posting in this thread 

[leec]

Maybe everyone is to busy building the cars to post on the forums. 

What's your excuse then

[andy198712]

Just a little observation.....

Its all the "Original" crew/members posting in this thread 

I'm what you would call a "newbie" My Names Andy, i live in Cornwall and i'm 26.... Hello 

I joined the forum due to the knowable input that is about here, the samba is pretty do it my way or no way, and handy for some stuff but i prefer the "been there and done it" kind of info, instead of "i read on the internet one time" info. There's some pretty serious names on here that are all willing to help, some times i feel a bit not worthy to make input. (thats not complaint, just not wanting to waste people time)

I'll be honest, i didn't join due to my interest in Cal Look style, i'm more a slightly lower in the back and corner fast kind of guy..... my 1200 and straight line speed aren't words in the same sentence..... ever.
But although its called Cal Look there's all styles here if you look around, some nice sleepers, patina's german looks ect.

Cheers