The gates of hell

[Erlend / bug66]

What kind of times are you chasing?

Massive heads and cam 

[modnrod]

Cool. I am in for a mouse race;) i am building a 1735 cc for my new 67cal look.

My all-time favourite engine was around that size. I used parts from other local engines to bore and stroke it out (off-the-shelf stuff was either not available then or hugely expensive), valves, springs, pistons, rods, a real hotch-potch! Hahaha! But it was just a really sweet little engine.
Offset ground crank for about 75mm, local pistons for a 3.375" bore, 1.49" intake valves, 1.27" exh valves, etc, etc, etc.

1735cc from 87 bore x 73 stroke?

I love mouse motors! 

Thanks for all the pics Roman.

[Roman]

What kind of times are you chasing?

Massive heads and cam 

The goal is to have fun!
Low 12:s high or 11:s maybe? It is a full weight car in street condition with a trans that isn't optimized for a small high revving motor.

[BeetleBug]

The goal is to have fun!

That is what it is all about!

I hope you do not mind me asking Roman but how does the lifters look like after being used with K800`s?

Best rgs
BB

[Roman]

I hope you do not mind me asking Roman but how does the lifters look like after being used with K800`s?

Flawless!
If I had the box I could repack them and sell them as new.

[Erlend / bug66]

Are you spraying the engine or driving it completely NA?

Low 12 / high 11's on a small engine like that, in a full weight car is cool!

[bang]

Cool. Anders how long are The rods?

Lets make a class at scc. Max 1776 cc and Cars above 750 kg  that could be fun.

[BeetleBug]

Cool. Anders how long are The rods?

Lets make a class at scc. Max 1776 cc and Cars above 750 kg  that could be fun.

I`m ALL in on that idea 

[Roman]

Cool. Anders how long are The rods?

Lets make a class at scc. Max 1776 cc and Cars above 750 kg  that could be fun.

Rods are 5.352", stock length.

I am in on a race class!
750 kg with or without driver? I think mine is 750 without.

[Roman]

Are you spraying the engine or driving it completely NA?

Low 12 / high 11's on a small engine like that, in a full weight car is cool!

Times without NOS. I havent excluded the possibility to spray it yet though.
The car has made these times with this HP, me or Anders Hermansson as a driver.
2387 - 228 hp, type 1 trans: 11.29
2276 - 225 hp, bus trans: 11.7
2276 - 180 hp, bus trans: 12.3
2789 - 286 hp, bus trans: 10.96

If 208 hp is correct I hope to be somewhere between 11.7 and 12.3 - low 12's or high 11's.

[bang]

750kg without driver sounds fair for a fuld Body car.

My rods are only 4,75 and crane is 62,5 but 94mm bore. Raptor cam and wedge port heads.

[BeetleBug]

Times without NOS. I havent excluded the possibility to spray it yet though.
The car has made these times with this HP, me or Anders Hermansson as a driver.
2387 - 228 hp, type 1 trans: 11.29
2276 - 225 hp, bus trans: 11.7
2276 - 180 hp, bus trans: 12.3
2789 - 286 hp, bus trans: 10.96

If 208 hp is correct I hope to be somewhere between 11.7 and 12.3 - low 12's or high 11's.

208 US pony`s is one thing but the missing torque is another thing you need to take into consideration. It is not easy to drive fast with a mouse engine and especially so when the gear ratios are not tailored for the engine and car. But on the other hand, the new driving style needed to go quick with a mouse engine will make you quicker when you later build a new and bigger engine.

[jamiep_jamiep]

I always like reading about folks who buy their old cars back.... think we all want to turn the clock back sometimes! Good to see you back with your old car, and look forward to hearing how it runs

[Peter Shattock]

I like the sound of all this mouse motor talk!

Good on you Roman and Bang. I hope your plans come together over the winter and I'll be interested to see how you get on next season, particularly with the planned 750+ driver weight break.

I'm sure you are well aware, but getting off the line will be the biggest challenge, with limited torque and a reasonable amount of weight. That said if you select your parts carefully and get a decent clutch set up, then I'm sure both motors could certainly punch above their weight.

A word of warning though if you fall for the charms of a small cc screamer my guess is you and your cars will be going on a diet and the gear ratios will be getting shorter!

Have fun......

Peter

[Roman]

Time for an update.
The heads are still at JPM so I have started restoring my IDAs.
Before:

[Roman]

After glass blasting and then plastic media blasting they look like new!
I still have to remove the stuck check valve in the bottom of the float bowl. My machine guy is on vacation and will be back net week so then I will be able to assemble them will mostly new parts.

[Roman]

I have also looked a lot for a good ignition.
I need a crank trigger to have exact timing, but to use a distributor feels so wrong. It is also quite expensive.
The distributorless ignitions I have found are half lame so I have seriously been looking for an EFI update.

I tested Passat coil on plugs today on another engine I had in the garage and they fit!
According to Motor Nord who is the Scandinavian distributor for Link EFI thay have been dynoed to 1000+ hp and 10 000 rpm with no problems on other cars.
I know Juggas is using it on his type 4 turbo engine as well.

If someone is interested in a set of Italian IDAs, just restored with lots of new parts (500 + euros invested just in new parts) just PM me. They will be done in a week or two.

[volkmaster]

I found a series of pics from the period I "borrowed" it.
Hope you dont mind me posting in your thread
The pics is copywrited but here's a link:

http://www.ziken.se/Galleri_Motorsport_2013/2013-08-31%20Pistonhead%20Open%204%20-%20Kjula%20Dragway/index_7.html

With the street 2275 (185hp with belt, muffler) it went 12,54 -not as fast as 12,3.
Then the engine was moved to the rail before I went any faster but thats an other story.

[peejke]

love this story , hoping to get my 1776 out of the bus and in to a bug asap.

[Roman]

The carbs are finíshed since about two weeks and they turned out really good!
I sold them to a frend locally that had an urgent need.
And now on to the EFI etc. I will update later.

[Griebel]

.

[Roman]

Phase II: EFI
I was looking at several options for the throttle bodies, but they all were expensive. A set of ITB with injectors and TPS easlily breaks the 1000 euro range so I started to look for bike parts.
The problem with the most was that they were to small. After a bit investigation I changed track and bought two sets of Ducati 749/999 throttle bodies.
They have the same TB, the difference is the idle settings.
Ducati 749: 2 cylinder, 748 cc, 108 hp at 10 000 rpm.
Take the power x 2 and the CC x 2 and you have approx my 1680 with 208 + hp at approx 9000 rpm. 
But... if you look at the size, 54 mm people will think I am mad. 54 mm ITB on a 1680!
The best part was the price, $80 for a pair, so it was $160 in total!
Pictures and more information later.

[Roman]

One of the two complete airboxes.
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Air box removed, a weber IDF as a comparsion.
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Close up of the TB.
Wire to the left is the control for fast idle. I plan to connect it to the choke wire.
The one in the middle is throttle and the one to the right is a return wire for the throttle. It won't be used.
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[Roman]

The throttle bodies has top mounted, pico size shower type injectors. F1 style!!!
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Bottom view through the throttle. Injector is visible at the top.
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Practical C/C distance is about the same as an IDF if you don't angle them. In that case the tabs between the TB's and the velocity stacks has to be trimmed.
 It will take some time and work to shorten and angle them, but I think it will be worth the effort.
It will straighten out the port and give a shorter intake length that is good for the high RPM.
Mainfolds are bugpack with a lot of meat to port them out.
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[karl h]

would it be possible to fit them on IDA manifolds without mods?

[kb]

Another one with Ducati TB's, I like

Here you can see what I (we) plan to do with mine.. Using the existing linkage between the two (shortened down), and using the cables for throttle.
Making custom manifolds.. 
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[geir]

Here is my
 

[BeetleBug]

Nice! Very nice.. and that goes to all of you.

-BB-

[Roman]

would it be possible to fit them on IDA manifolds without mods?

No problem! It just takes an adapter.

[Roman]

Another one with Ducati TB's, I like

Here you can see what I (we) plan to do with mine.. Using the existing linkage between the two (shortened down), and using the cables for throttle.
Making custom manifolds.. 

Seems like more people that got the idea!
Nice!