Plumbing in an external cooler

[andy198712]

Hi,


So, he's the question

If you were to plumb in an external cooler and it was your only oil cooler as you couldn't run the stock one, would you:
A: run an adapter from the stock location to the external cooler so it uses the stock relief/thermostat valve?
B: run a thermostat sandwich plate in the filter head out to an external cooler?

or something else?
My thoughts are something that promotes quick oil heat up, i also have an inline temp switch for a fan i can use also

its on a 2110 daily driver in the coldish UK with a 26mm pump

Thanks

Andy

[Erlend / bug66]

I'll run:

Out of pump
In to filter
out of filter
in to cooloer
out of cooler
in to engine block


with a termostat to the coolers fan

[Jim Ratto]

Are you baffling off airflow to where stock cooler was located?

[Rick Meredith]

Mr. Ratto brings up a good point. My experience has been that you can't beat the OE VW stuff. A lot of design and technology went into it. I would add a cooler in addition as higher HP means more heat.

[Beastofabug]

I'm
Out of pump in to filter filter back block  then out of the top of block through a thermostat for the fan then to cooler back to block

[Beastofabug]

Other option type 4 cooler conversion on a type 1

[andy198712]

I'll run:

Out of pump
In to filter
out of filter
in to cooloer
out of cooler
in to engine block


with a termostat to the coolers fan

Cheers buddy.
Think I'd be ok with just the thermo fan switch? And running through the cooler all the time?

[andy198712]

Its porsche cooling other wise I'd run stock dog house cooler for sure.
But I'm doing it for the looks to be perfectly honest...

[andy198712]

I'm
Out of pump in to filter filter back block  then out of the top of block through a thermostat for the fan then to cooler back to block

How its heat up and cool? Much road use?
This is my daily and I do some short trips but want to do some longer road trips too...

Cheers for the input

[Beastofabug]

Don't know never used it but it came on my engine but I'm going more street and strip so went down the external route

[andy198712]

Don't know never used it but it came on my engine but I'm going more street and strip so went down the external route

Fair enough, i'm edging towards a sandwich plate, but then saw the advice above some a guy with a pretty HiPo blue beetle so......


Are Messa coolers the ones to get?

[Jim Ratto]

I use Setrab.

[modnrod]

If I can't use the OEM doghouse cooler?

Funny, I've been thinking on this for a bit now, I'm thinking of a giant experiment just to keep me amused, and this was part of it. Also, I travel some really crap roads as a matter of course (coz thats' all we have......... ), and the doghouse coolers ALL vibrate and leak, sometimes they just last a bit longer, but it will happen.

1. Make/modify/fabricate a thermostat assembly to mount to the original cooler position. Oil will circulate with no restriction until t/stat opens. I think you could even take out the back valve too if you wanted.
2. Run oil lines to a T4 cooler, that's been enclosed into a water tank and sealed, holds about 2L. Cooler assembly inside the engine bay (I run centremounts, so I have plenty of room.   ) Think water-to-air intercooler. No oil cooler lines under the car to get ripped/torn/split from rocks/branches/old truck tyre steel ripped bits, etc.
3. Run water lines to heat exchanger, I like to use old aircon condensors coz they're really efficient and cheap, and they also usually have mounting frames around them. You could use a fan back-up, but thermosiphoning should work fine. Now if the rocks/sticks etc smash stuff up they just cactus up a cheap old condenser, if the water leaks out you can still drive the car (just slowly and no load to keep the oil temps down), you're not parked up in the bush with no oil in the sump for hours on end.

I haven't actually made this set up, but I have used water-to-air with thermosiphoning on TT Supras before and it worked great, so I think it should be fine. With them all I had to do was enclose the standard intercooler and run water lines to a small condenser.
The whole idea is to stop the oil leaks from the doghouse cooler, but also to make ALL the air go past the heads/barrels (no heater tubes or doghouse slot in the housing), so maybe I'll have enough extra heat-loading capacity to drop cruise revs and even still run power pulleys, etc. As I said, giant experiment thing!
Normally I much prefer the KISS way of stock set-ups, but this added complexity is still simple enough to do, and may make a big difference.
A few extra ideas anyway.  

[andy198712]

Like a charge cooler but for oil right?

Think I'm swaying towards Erlend's idea, pretty KISS and if I have warmup issues I can add a stat at later date easily...

But next question, looking at serab cooler as they seem the best for reasonable money?? Although there are a lot on eBay a lot cheaper, no name ones but a bit unsure??
So how many rows should I go for? Or what size?

Cheers

Andy

[Erlend / bug66]

I'll be running a CB Atomic cooler as my only one. Mounted to the left of the gearbox, with a scoop to catch clean air.

[axam48ida]

Oil coolers........
If I was to do what your doing. I would use the most efficient design cooler. The Setrab cooler is by far more efficient than the mesa. The Setrab being more efficient you can use a smaller unit to achieve the same cooling effect as a mesa 72 plate-approx. 8"x 11".
I can supply them also. As for the oil source being case is full flowed you can run one after the filter and return that to the front of the case. Then for a second cooler use the blocked stock oil cooler as the out and in for the second cooler.

[modnrod]

Like a charge cooler but for oil right?

Gday Andy, yep, that's the idea.
For me though the requirements may be different, I need a LOT of cooler ability, but I'm afraid of rocks punching holes in the cooler fins or tubes if I mount them as normal next to the gearbox.
Having looked at the coolers others have listed, are the Mesa coolers the ones that are supposed to be almost rock-proof?

The "bypass" oil filter kits have been around and successful forever, but instead just using a t/stat to go to the cooler, and possibly a CB filter-pump might be the simplest for you?

[spoolin70]

Are you baffling off airflow to where stock cooler was located?

How much baffling is required when the stock cooler is removed ?

I have no provisions for a stock cooler but still intend to use a stock fan housing. The removal of such a large restriction in the airflow has me wondering how much of an imbalance to the flow it will make ?

Thanks
Darren

[andy198712]

I'll be running a CB Atomic cooler as my only one. Mounted to the left of the gearbox, with a scoop to catch clean air.

Had a look, can't seem who makes that cooler, guessing its one of the big names though.
How are you planning of mounting it there? Those D shaped exhaust clamps around the torsion tubes?

Cheers

[andy198712]

Oil coolers........
If I was to do what your doing. I would use the most efficient design cooler. The Setrab cooler is by far more efficient than the mesa. The Setrab being more efficient you can use a smaller unit to achieve the same cooling effect as a mesa 72 plate-approx. 8"x 11".
I can supply them also. As for the oil source being case is full flowed you can run one after the filter and return that to the front of the case. Then for a second cooler use the blocked stock oil cooler as the out and in for the second cooler.

Hi,
Yes totally agree, smaller being less prone to damage and easier to mount too! Setrab is looking good at the mo!
Currently watching a setrab on eBay 230mm X 115mm 16 row.
Where are you based? Want to drop me a pm on supply?

Think I'll run one with a fan first and see if I need a second, rarely above 20*c here on a hot summer day! Which will help.

Cheers

[andy198712]

Like a charge cooler but for oil right?

Gday Andy, yep, that's the idea.
For me though the requirements may be different, I need a LOT of cooler ability, but I'm afraid of rocks punching holes in the cooler fins or tubes if I mount them as normal next to the gearbox.
Having looked at the coolers others have listed, are the Mesa coolers the ones that are supposed to be almost rock-proof?

The "bypass" oil filter kits have been around and successful forever, but instead just using a t/stat to go to the cooler, and possibly a CB filter-pump might be the simplest for you?

Yeah its a tad hotter in Aus with your design you could mount it well out the way! I've always wondered why people don't use the gas and cooling style of a/c units for charge coolers ect...?

I've already got my case tapped and pump tapped other wise the cb pump would be the easiest fitment!
Cheers!

[andy198712]

Just won that cooler, comes wth jic 10 hardware which is cool!

[Lids]

And a very good price it was, I forgot to bid!

[andy198712]

And a very good price it was, I forgot to bid!

Lucky  yeah went cheap! Thing i noticed with Setrab coolers is they don't normally include the adapter you NEED, then you need fittings too.... will give it a good flushing over and over