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Author Topic: The eternal rebuild  (Read 106733 times)
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #210 on: November 12, 2022, 19:58:35 pm »

That meant new pistons (cylinders honed OK), valves and the new 3rd time lucky steel cam. The plan was always to change the cam and pistons, so the only extra un budgeted expense was the valves which although unwelcome was definitely a no brainer necessary expense given the hard time the valve train gets.

By the end of November 21 the heads had new inlet guides new cuts on the seats and a few more cfm which was a welcome addition so the heads are now re branded to MS260’s.
Interestingly the heads as they came off the motor still flowed 256cfm at 16mm lift 25”H2O and they are out of the box MS250’s. The new additional flow was all in the valve seats no other head work. So a bit of extra air speed too as they are today.

The new cam was designed and in production. We went for a steel cam this time in a hope there would be a bit less flex given the valve springs and work the whole system really hard.

Come Feb 22 the cam was done the case was modified with the through bolt to support the centre cam bearing the new pistons had arrived so it was just the valves left outstanding.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #211 on: November 12, 2022, 20:01:22 pm »

The short block was together in June 22 but still no valves.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #212 on: November 12, 2022, 20:03:46 pm »

The valves proved to be by far and away most difficult parts to source and the biggest delay which ultimately meant looking for a new supplier. Ferrea came through in the end as the best alternative and the valves eventually arrived in Sweden in August 22.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #213 on: November 12, 2022, 20:05:53 pm »

The motor was complete by the end of August and it was time to make a plan to get to Sweden with the car to fit the motor to see what we could find.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #214 on: November 12, 2022, 20:08:57 pm »

The stars eventually aligned and we were set for the end of October for me to make the long trek to Sweden.

The journey turned out to be about the best weather of any of the journeys to date and although the journey doesn’t get any shorter it went without a drama and I arrived in the late afternoon sunshine.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #215 on: November 12, 2022, 20:12:49 pm »

We unloaded the car and all the gear before it got dark, I had a quick peak at the motor on the stand and headed off for some food a catch up and an early night as we wanted a good early start the next day.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #216 on: November 12, 2022, 23:14:44 pm »

All went loosely to plan and we soon had the motor in the car and we’re fitting up the ancillaries. Before long we were putting oil in the tank (most of which I managed to spill inside the car as a bit of additional rust protection), we spun for oil pressure which soon came up then put the plugs in sorted the valve clearances and put some fuel in it and primed the fuel system and we were ready to go.
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Ready to make some noise.
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Fastbrit
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Keep smiling...


« Reply #217 on: November 13, 2022, 08:50:14 am »

And...  Cheesy
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Der Kleiner Panzers VW Club    
12.56sec street-driven Cal Looker in 1995
9.87sec No Mercy race car in 1994
Seems like a lifetime ago...
ibg
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« Reply #218 on: November 13, 2022, 09:05:13 am »

.... you know how to tease people.  Wink
once again it is excellent to read about your car and the 'journey'
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richie
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« Reply #219 on: November 13, 2022, 10:09:45 am »

Good to see it again after so long Wink

But one thing really bothers me Shocked  how heavy is that old dizzy? just looks so out of place Shocked Grin  Guessing its for cam sync? must be some lighter options out there Wink

Sensor through front of case and magnet on cam gear would be my suggestion for less weight and less friction Shocked  Smiley can lose the dizzy drive as well then.  Something for next time though.

cheers Richie
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #220 on: November 13, 2022, 11:36:15 am »

2nd crank and it was running and after a little warm up Johannes took it for a quick drive on the rollers. As ever hopeless at the links to the videos but there are some clips on Instagram but will try and get them on YouTube and put a link here.

After a few more gentle runs and cooling time it was time for a few higher rpm runs to check the fuel map which turned out to be close and only needed minor adjustment.

As the rpm crept up and the motor came alive there were a couple of runs where it spun the tires and went straight to the rev limiter. This made it sound so aggressive and it was making good power already which all looked promising. This meant a quick pause to glue the tires and strap it down a bit tighter.

It was the next pull when we hit a misfire and a strange vibration, which after a lot of chasing around and methodical checking turned out to be the spacing of the crank trigger sensor to the trigger wheel. We certainly have a bigger gap now than before but surmised that the ignition was working a bit harder with the extra cylinder pressure.

We did a lot of checking before going for another pull, but decided the vibration was nothing engine related and was just perhaps the gearbox and the solid mounting of everything.

So with everything checked and misfire cured we went back to set up and found that it preferred less ignition timing which was a good sign as we crept up the rpm range.

As I’ve said I’ll post some clips but 10,000 rpm does not get any easier to watch / hear stood at the back of the car and I think I take a step or two backwards for every 500rpm increase! Much better filming from the front of the car.

Honestly we didn’t find all we hoped for given the improvements we’d made in terms of peak power, but as ever we learned a few things along the way not least of all that there are no givens regardless of the theoretical improvements made. None the less it made more torque, more power and there is more area under the curve in the operating rpm range, so all things being equal it should be a quicker car. How much quicker if at all we’ll have to wait and see. 144hp/ litre is still a very stout little motor though so it’s all relative.


We did decide to make a racket with the stinger too just because and it did make its best numbers with this setup, but I still plan to run with the muffler in general, although I might run with the stinger just because at some points next year.

Realistically the main thing holding the car back in terms of et is getting it of the line, and to 60ft well and consistently, which remains a challenge. I’ve made a few changes to the car which I hope will helps but time will literally tell.

I’ve got various jobs to do now to get the car to a point where I can drive it on the street and a few performance related mods to make which if time permits I can try next year.

Plan D is already taking shape, as there is unfinished business here,  but as ever we need to prove what we have is reliable next year and see what the improvements made look like when I get the car to the track.

Hopefully there will be a few more frequent updates in the next 12 months, rather than the 18 month radio silence.

Peter
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #221 on: November 13, 2022, 11:43:50 am »

So the dizzy thing is a bit of a compromise, but I do like it. Realistically there is compromise all over the place with the car most of which are on the back burner. I need to get after this 10’s street car thing again, before getting carried away…
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richie
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« Reply #222 on: November 13, 2022, 13:32:28 pm »



. Realistically there is compromise all over the place with the car



That statement pretty much sums up racing a rear engine aircooled VW based car full stop  Shocked Cheesy

cheers Richie
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Eddie DVK
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« Reply #223 on: November 15, 2022, 08:05:24 am »

Thanks for the update, cool reading again Peter.
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Regards Edgar

" Type 4, it is a completely different engine. You have to drive one to understand! "
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #224 on: November 21, 2022, 21:51:56 pm »

So I don’t really know what I’m doing with YouTube but I have posted 3 clips of the car so hopefully you can find them and someone who knows what they are doing can post a like on here.

There is one through the muffler with a bit of roll on roll off throttle where it spins the tires when it gets on song. There is another from the back with the stinger to the 10k limiter and another from the front again to the limiter.

Enjoy the noise.

Peter
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Steve D.
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« Reply #225 on: November 22, 2022, 03:00:09 am »

https://www.youtube.com/@petershattock

Thanks for sharing with us.
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Über Alles

5 tracks, 5 days, 1000+ miles.
10.77 avg. on pump fuel.
238I
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #226 on: November 22, 2022, 16:36:23 pm »

Thanks Steve, glad someone knows what they are doing…

Peter
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JezWest
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« Reply #227 on: November 23, 2022, 21:05:56 pm »

That really is an amazing sound. I'm not sure I could be in the same building as the car with those runs going on, you must have nerves of titanium!
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #228 on: May 28, 2023, 20:44:25 pm »

So as usual a longer than planned delay in this update, but as ever time has just slipped past  but there’s not been a lot of interesting things going on.

So when I got back from Sweden I had a few jobs to do, but nothing major and soon enough the car was back to a point where I could drive it on the street. The only problem was the weather although I did manage a short drive just to check all was well in a brief dry spell in the weather. I did have trouble starting the car though which was a change from the norm. Given the weather was cold and wet and there was no obvious chance to drive the car I decided to change the rubber tubes which connect the inlet manifolds and throttle bodies and organise some spacers between the two now the inlet tract length is set. As ever a simple job turned out to be a bit painful with some really poor quality hose and then some hose the wrong size, but I got there in the end when Johannes brought some with him when he came over for his tech talk at the Volksworld Show.

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Finally some dry weather arrived and I started to use the car again on the road, although starting was still a problem.
I found what I thought was a tps problem just before the volksworld show so set about changing that after the show, but no change.
Actually what I had thought was a problem turned out not to be and was only user error on my part! On the positive side I do have a spare tps in the tool box now…..

The starting issue turned out to be a simple fix as we had moved the crank sensor away from the crank trigger pulley when on the dyno to cure a misfire. Sensor back to its original position and starting returned to normal and rather strangely no obvious misfire. From a few cold start checks I positioned the sensor as far from the trigger wheel as possible without starting issues in a hope that the misfire that triggered the change would also stay away.

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Doing a bit more street driving it was fairly obvious the low speed street running with light throttle was a bit off and needs a bit of dyno / street driving time to sort. Given the clock was ticking to the Doorslammers event which I entered having missed the first Outlaw round I decided to tow the car there rather than drive it given the light throttle running issues which is exactly what it gets for the 2 hour drive to the track and no time to sort it as this was just before the event.

So after a 3 year absence from racing I found myself walking round the garage early on Friday morning wondering what I needed to take which felt quite strange after all this time.

Setting off to the track towing the car is never what I want to be doing, but it did feel like the right thing to be doing as I hadn’t done anything like the usual mileage I do in the car having changed a load of stuff, and given the low speed running issues it turned out to be an easy choice.

Once at the track I unpacked the car and the very first job was to fit the oil catch tray and I realised I’d forgotten a block of wood I use on the jack. No big issue but I think I need a list. So once the car was checked over I was ready to run for the first time since the same event 3 years earlier.

Dave Dinning was there at the weekend to keep an eye on what was going on outside the car, so we headed down to the staging lanes to see what does.

I did a little burnout to clean the tires off staged and off it went, well nearly. The clutch did something a bit odd so I shut off and then went again and then it did actually go. This all resulted in a 12.** et but as it turned out it went well in terms of top end speed at over 120mph. In fairness unusually for Santa Pod there was a tail wind which no doubt helped.

Back in the pits there turned out to be two problems both clutch related. If you have followed this thread for a while you will know clutch issues are a common theme and the phrase clutchgate has been used more than once in my ramblings. Fortunately this version was not as problematic as it has been in the past. The first very simple issue was the cotter pin on the rod, which actuates the master cylinder was loose so the simplest of fixes. The second was either a dodgy solenoid valve or proportioning valve. After a bit of head scratching with Dave and taking various hoses off the valve and solenoid we discovered it was the valve which was not holding pressure. As I had no spare we parked the idea of using the valve and decided to use left foot clutch management instead.

By the time we had all this sorted the track was closed, but we were all set for the morning.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #229 on: May 28, 2023, 20:46:41 pm »


The left foot clutch management actually proved to be reasonably successful all be it leaving on time was not my strong point with letting the clutch up slowly with my foot. To be fair I was never going to be competitive at this event in a 4 cylinder class with predominantly 9 second cars quite a few 8 second cars and two 7 second cars. So this was very much a test weekend for me.

Having warmed the car up and checked the clutch we were all set and on the way back to the staging lanes. Quick burn out and an uneventful run.

That said the car pulled a bigger wheelie than it has for years, which in fairness did surprise me. Dave and Ian claimed that I lifted, I’m claiming it bogged the motor. As luck would have it something went wrong with the data logging and the run was never recorded so there is no evidence either way and I’m sticking with my story.

The uneventful run turned out to be quick as they often do. With the car set up for the street (fan belt, muffler and street tires) it ran a new PB of 11.01 at 122mph. Needless to say that was great news and oh so close to the 10 I’ve been chasing. Needless to say this fuelled discussions of me lifting and the car being up for a 10, but the driver not so. Once my light weight driver skills had been fully debated we got the car ready for another run.

This time the plan was no burnout and to just drive around the water as the track was in really good shape and obviously the motor bogged last time and we would be back out at the hottest part of the day.

This resulted in another uneventful, but quick run. This time though not only was it a new street car set up PB, it was also the quickest the car has ever been with a 10.90 at 123mph and only the second time the car has run a 10 and previously that was with slicks, stinger and no cooling on the car.

This was a bit of a moment for me, the car and all the people who have helped to get me and the car to this point as this is the 10 second dream I’ve been chasing with this set up for about 10 years now.

The only problem is I didn’t drive it to and from the track so there is still a couple of boxes to tick, but it’s good to know the car is in the ballpark performance wise.

I did another run later in the afternoon, but the track was not as grippy and we got the setup wrong, but still ran a scruffy 11.06 at 122mph so fairly consistent all day.

What was also consistent was some fairly awful 60ft times with a 1.62 best for the 10.90 and a 1.73 worst for the 11.06.

I was really happy that evening when my head hit the pillow, but it all went down hill rapidly on Sunday morning. On the first run in eliminations, just after leaving the line I broke the driver’s side axle. I managed to limp to the end of the track just in case there was a chance of getting a bye and making the next round as Jonny in the other lane really broke. Unfortunately it was a no go and that was the end of the weekend for me.

As much as I would rather have brought the car home in one bit and it feels odd to say but I really wasn’t disappointed with the weekend given what the car did on Saturday.

So with the car back home in the garage, I need to sort some axles and hopefully get the car back in one bit in time for Bugjam.
 
Veedub racing has the 3 runs on YouTube which hopefully you’ll see here. https://youtu.be/n_AxuqX4Fig
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richie
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« Reply #230 on: May 30, 2023, 07:24:23 am »

Glad the excess of cake didn't slow you down  Grin

cheers Richie
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #231 on: May 30, 2023, 19:09:21 pm »

It did on the way home as I might have said I’d take a few bits for the family, not all of which made it all the way home. I’ve got a while to get back down to race weight though whilst I get the car fixed.

So ‘just enough’ was just enough in the end.
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nicolas
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« Reply #232 on: July 15, 2023, 09:29:32 am »

I did miss the car. but jealous, yes jealous, about what you and Johannes, and all the people involved really, are doing. take care!
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