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Author Topic: The eternal rebuild  (Read 33130 times)
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2017, 22:27:47 PM »

I have also made an air box to test on the single cylinder engine when we get back to that, but I'm sort of hoping that won't make a positive performance difference as it will make general access and maintenance a pain in the car, but is a backstop position if there is a problem with stand off or fuel spillage in use. The former did happen quite significantly at particular rpm with the old 1795, but looking at the inner wing enclosures for the throttle bodies it looks like its far less of an issue with the 1776. When we get to a point of testing the airbox on the single cylinder engine if it makes a positive difference I'll make a decision then.
What was clear though is that the quality of the air and fuel mixture entering the cylinder is an important factor in overall performance, and all you can do to improve this you should if you are looking for the last few hp.
The last job was to check out the exhaust (collector to exit) options as I will be sticking with the Wasp 2 but running with the muffler. I did also want to check it would be safe with the stinger too and not lean out dangerously if I fancied making some noise.
We had generally been running with a muffler on the dyno with this in mind and so as not to annoy the rest of Sweden by running with the stinger. Once we knew the fuel map was good we bolted on the stinger and amazingly it was ok (not lean) which was looking like good news for the muffler. I had brought 3 different mufflers and a bunch of pipes, but as time was limited now we just agreed to sort the best pipe length between the collector and the muffler with a straight pipe and I would make it all fit when I got home. If all had gone to plan I was hoping to make, fit and test it to be sure, but with all the previous drama that was not going to happen before I had to head home. It turned out the motor was not that sensitive to the length of pipe between the collector and muffler but we got to a range where there was little difference to give me some fitting options.
So that was about it in terms of the fun all there was left to do was pack up and head for the long drive home.
It was an action packed few days and as ever I ended up learning a load of stuff, and finding there is still plenty more to think about.
The end result was really interesting and has confirmed that neither cam we have had in the engine is quite where we want it to be, but it has given a good indication about where we should be going. Having learnt what we have means I won't be able to leave what we have discovered alone and I will no doubt be back in Sweden with the car for cam number 3 at some point in the future.
So the numbers. On the face of it they don't look like they have been worth all the effort as we made no more peak power (the figures we all tend to use when asked). What we have done though is move the peak from 10,000rpm to 9,000rpm. Consequently the engine accelerates more quickly to its peak, but then holds this with very little fall off till 10,000 so there is quite a bit more area under the curve to work with in reality.
Some interesting lines!
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This does create a problem though as I'm going to run out of gearing at the track before I get to the stripe.
That said I need to get the car off the line properly before worrying to much about that as its undoubtedly the biggest issue holding the car back in terms of et. I'm fairly sure all that we have done to the engine this time was not necessary to get the car to run in the 10's regularly as the old combination was capable if I could have got it off the line properly (1.56 on the 10s run is the best to date). That said I'm hopeful that the engine making more power lower down the rpm range will help here as well as the clutch plans and the monitoring of the clutch if I finally get a reliable laptop!
Also with cam number 3 in the pipeline I might well leave the gearing alone as realistically peak power rpm is likely to rise again with plan C so the the gearing may well come back to me.
So the car is back home now and I've got the list of to do jobs on the go. The  wiring related jobs are done, the clutch centre is being re made and the new pressure plate is at the balancers. The alternator has been fixed (faulty regulator), the laptop might well be dead so might yet need a new one, I've managed to recover the Li battery which I was pleased about as that might well have proved to have been an expensive error. Whilst waiting for these other bits I've been doing a few maintenance related and MOT preparation jobs so that once the clutch bits are back and I can get the motor back in the car I can get on  with the exhaust. This should be the last job of note before the car is back on the road. It is a bit more complicated than normal as I do have a number of future plans that I want to take account of when positioning the silencer but it all looks like it will fit all be it that it will be tight.
I'm on holiday now hence finally getting time to update this, but I hope when I get back home life does not overtake me again and I get the car back on the road and back to the track to see where we are.

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richie
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« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2017, 23:24:36 PM »



 It is a bit more complicated than normal as I do have a number of future plans that I want to take account of when positioning the silencer



 Shocked TTTTTtttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttturbo?  Cheesy Grin


Awesome write up as always Pete Cool
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henk
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« Reply #122 on: August 24, 2017, 15:36:55 PM »

Nice reading.
It is about time you bring your car back over to europe so we see and hear it run again. Grin

Henk!!!
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Taylor
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« Reply #123 on: August 25, 2017, 00:43:34 AM »

Peter,
Do you think the ability to run more RPM came more from the pushrods expanding with the engine, and using more of the cam, or being lighter?  Did you test by chance at varying engine temperatures?   
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #124 on: August 25, 2017, 07:19:23 AM »

Turbo! Never say never, but no never! I've got enough trouble with all the bells and whistles the car has now and I definitely don't want any more complication! I still think about a set of IDA's and a mag and junking all that spaghetti and the mysterious black (gold) box!

Henk, I would love to come back to DDD but this year it clashes with my wife and my youngest son's birthday celebrations and as much as my son might like it I'm not sure I'd still have a wife if I suggested a romantic weekend away in Germany that turned out to be a drag strip! I'm sure I'll be back though as its definitely a favorite of mine. Just need you to show me the way to the new track......

Hi Taylor we did not check varying temps other than cold to hot and that hot was loosely the same each time. In the single cylinder tests I think the extra rpm was mainly down to the reduced weight although an amount of it would be due to the engine seeing more cam. The majority was just more rpm (beyond the point where we lost control with the steel pushrods) as the valve spring was still in control and the engine was still making good pressure. There was a power increase though below the point at which we lost control of the valves with the steel pushrods and its this part I was referring to as being the engine seeing more of the cam. Basically when we overlaid the curves the MMC one was higher than the steel curve before we lost control of the valves. I don't have the exact details here on the train but from memory it was about 3.5hp on the single cylinder engine so could amount to 14hp on the actual engine but realistically perhaps 8-10 at peak power rpm. It did make me wonder if we have all just put to much cam in our engines over the years, but in reality the engine never got to see it all once its hot. So in "old money" effectively if an engine really needs an FK87 on paper put an FK89 in it and it will get what it needs. I don't mean that literally but hopefully you understand what I mean. I suspect in days gone by before we had such accessible sophisticated cam measurement equipment, data and dyno's there was simply more trial and error with cams just getting bigger until the power dropped off and they might have realised the same thing and took up the "slack" in the cam not the expansion of the pushrod. This would not resolve the mechanical issues, but they might not have been to bothered for a short term drag race engine, as I suspect suitable pushrods that are both strong enough and expand have not been available untill relatively recent times.
Peter
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Jamie
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« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2017, 00:46:30 AM »

Fantastic to read how the car has developed, looking forward to more updates and seeing it back at the track


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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UltraOrange67-2443
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« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2017, 09:10:24 AM »

Whats next Peter?
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #127 on: August 29, 2017, 07:25:33 AM »

Thanks Jamie, hope to have a few more updates before the year is out.

Nick, turbo 1st..... oh no I said never.... The main priority is to get it back on the road as after the last racing season not driving it that year was a real killer. Consequently I've said to myself I'm not going to race the car until it's street legal and I've done a few miles and checked its all OK.

Beyond that there is still plenty on the to do list, but I just need to prove what I've done to date is going to be reliable before getting carried away as I've only raced the current engine.

Once I have the new pressure plate back from the balancers I can get the motor back in the car and put it back together, then hopefully the fun can start!

Peter
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Pas
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« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2017, 19:24:36 PM »

A great read as usual Pete. Looking forward to seeing you racing again.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #129 on: November 15, 2017, 23:58:32 PM »

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Street car? Not quite, but it’s getting close now.

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LGK
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WWW
« Reply #130 on: November 16, 2017, 08:39:38 AM »

Pure Hardcore Pete Wink

Well done,get in touch soon.

Rgds Steve
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brewsy
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« Reply #131 on: November 16, 2017, 12:32:31 PM »

LOVE those TB's!!
The top mount injectors reminds me of when Ducati first did that on the 996SP motors.
Pure engine porn!! Grin

One question I have Peter is wrt filtration? If you DO get it back on the street aren't you concerned with all the crap that might/will get sucked into the motor?
Will the new airbox have a filter in it?

Cheers
Marc
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2017, 07:30:37 AM »

Pure Hardcore Pete Wink

Well done,get in touch soon.

Rgds Steve

Will do Steve hope all is well with you and the gang over there.

Peter
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The fastest blue beetle in the village
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2017, 07:43:25 AM »

LOVE those TB's!!
The top mount injectors reminds me of when Ducati first did that on the 996SP motors.
Pure engine porn!! Grin

One question I have Peter is wrt filtration? If you DO get it back on the street aren't you concerned with all the crap that might/will get sucked into the motor?
Will the new airbox have a filter in it?

Cheers
Marc

Hi Marc, I do worry about the motor eating crap but it’s not like I do 15,000 miles a year in it and I never had a problem when I ran with unfiltered IDA’s. That was with an open deck lid most of the time too. I hope to be able to run with a closed deck lid as I did in the end with the 1795cc motor which means it’s less likely to be a problem and the way the TB’s are tucked away in there little recesses in the inner wings they are a lot less exposed than they were. Hope I haven’t tempted fate now!

The air box could be filtered but I’m a way off that at the moment, as we need to prove it works first and even if it does it will be a fair bit of work to get it all in the car, and I just want to get out and drive it now!

Peter
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #134 on: February 14, 2018, 23:30:30 PM »

Still not a street car yet, but it’s just got a bit closer.....

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The fastest blue beetle in the village
Peter Shattock
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« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2018, 23:32:25 PM »

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Neil Davies
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« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2018, 02:30:52 AM »

It's a standing joke between my dad and I that he manages to get the cables for any power tool tangled into knots almost by just looking at them. You've beaten him by doing it with an exhaust! It looks amazing Peter, can't wait to see it in the flesh. Do you have a date in mind for first runs? Street car shootout at the Pod in June?
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vwhelmot
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« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2018, 08:54:39 AM »

Now that's different. I like it.
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2018, 11:34:25 AM »

Hi Neil,

Just need to get it MOT’d and get some miles on it before getting to carried away but planning on running at Big Bang as a first race if all goes to OK then I’ll make a plan from there. Time as ever is my biggest restriction as there is a lot going on at work and at home but will be focusing on the OFF MSA rounds.

It is a bit of a tangle but I’ve never been a fan of the silencer hanging out the back of the car. I like the turbo cars with no visible exhaust but the collector location means that is not an option for me so this was the best compromise. Having it tucked up out of the way is part of the long term master plan for the car too.

Peter
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #139 on: April 01, 2018, 22:16:12 PM »

So I drove the car for the first time in a long time today. Not far but far enough remember how much fun it is to drive a street car with short gears and 250hp when it only weighs 1500lbs with me in it!

Rain forecast now for most of this week but need to get some decent miles on it before the end of the month and it’s first race as a street car. No slicks or stinger for me this year and driving it to the struck and home again so fingers crossed the weather improves as it’s a bit grim here for the Easter Holiday weekend. [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ] [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #140 on: April 01, 2018, 22:18:29 PM »

The business end
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dannyboy
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« Reply #141 on: April 01, 2018, 22:57:40 PM »

good stuff peter look forward to seeing it at track end of month  Cool
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Eddie
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« Reply #142 on: April 02, 2018, 07:28:00 AM »

Would be so cool to hear a high revving beetle drive by on the street. enjoy it Peter.
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leec
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« Reply #143 on: April 02, 2018, 08:56:56 AM »

Nice work Pete  Cheesy
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UltraOrange67-2443
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« Reply #144 on: April 02, 2018, 11:54:29 AM »

Shiny paint job next then Peter  Wink
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brewsy
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« Reply #145 on: April 02, 2018, 16:41:06 PM »

We won't believe its a REAL street car until we see in-car video of you burning off a wide boy in an STI (what do they drive these days??)...

 Wink Cheesy Grin
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modnrod
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Old School Volksies


« Reply #146 on: April 03, 2018, 02:06:44 AM »

Shiny paint job next then Peter  Wink

NNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
 Grin
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #147 on: April 03, 2018, 12:52:30 PM »

Don’t worry he’s taking the piss. No new paint, no interest, time or money for that not to mention the weight! Anyway I thought it looked shiny!

Not sure how many street miles I’m going to get looking at my diary just have to hope the weather gets better and I can get some evening drives in once the kids are in bed. Not that they will sleep all that well with it warming up on the drive!

It’s a really good feeling to have a car I can just drive again though.

Hope to have more updates soon.

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Peter
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Peter Shattock
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« Reply #148 on: July 25, 2018, 11:10:49 AM »

I’ve had some time over the last few months to put some street miles on the car. The first drive was, in some unusually warm weather which was a good test for the cooling system and temp control.

I was able to run with a closed deck lid with the 1795, but with this engine and the shorter gears meaning more rpm it looks like this might be a bit more of a challenge.

To start with I ran the car around and got the oil temp up to 100 degrees without the fans on the oil cooler being switched on. Switching the fans on kept the temp in and around 100 (stoped it rising), but with any significant and extended use of the right peddle the temp would rise and not come down again until I slowed up a bit. Probably manageable but a bit dull. I had a tennis ball in the car to prop the bottom of the deck lid open and that did cool things down a bit and the temps to dropped perhaps 5 degrees C across the range with loosely equivalent driving. This was still with the fans on the oil cooler running. So it was better but still not ideal.

On this basis I decided to fit the deck lid stand off’s for the next drive to and see if it would help, all be it it’s not my preference visually, if it helps I’ll be leaving them on the car.

I didn’t fit the Venturi ring on the fanshroud in the end as there is a load of spaghetti and the plug leads where the coil comes through the bulkhead which is all in the way. I decided this would reduce it’s effect due to their close proximity to the ring. It would be a major job to move all that now if it’s needed, so I’m hoping the deck lid stand off’s will improve things to a point where the temps are manageable without being too restrictive relative to the way I have to drive the car. Typically it’s not been as hot as it was that first drive for a realistic test so I’ll just have to wait and see what happens when the weather picks up again.

The gearing is not helping either as it keeps the rpm up at the point were the motor is feeling quite lively and starting to make some cylinder pressure at a sensible motorway speed. In the future this might mean racing with 5 gears and having a lazy 6th for the motorway street driving. This looks feasible now given the new cam is making more power lower down the rev range but as I will be changing the cam again in plan C I’m not sure what I’ll do yet.

As you would expect the oil pressure dropped in relation the rise in oil temp, but not to a point where it’s an issue but everything feels and looks good, with the oil temps around 90 degrees so that’s what I’m aiming for for general driving. I’m happy for it to rise to 100 if it’s working hard as long as it can then be brought back down to 90 ish degrees once I’m driving normally again, or if the ambient air temp is particularly high

I’ll do a few more miles now the deck lid stand offs are fitted and see how it pans out, and what I can put up with, in terms of temps relative to driving, before I get carried away taking it apart in the middle of the summer as regardless of the temp control its been a lot of fun driving the car again.

During the drives to date I have discovered 2nd gear is noisy and not in a particularly nice way, so I’m considering my options with that, whilst I sort a few other issues as I appear to have a charging problem again, which actually resulted in me breaking down, but a quick battery swap and I was up and running again. I have a fuel line to move, and a harness to fit too, not to mention trying to get back to the ecu stuff now I hopefully have a reliable laptop again.

So that’s about it for now I think my main issue is not wanting to take it apart again as I’m enjoying just driving it as it has been a while since it’s been a turn key car I can just jump in and drive.

The more I drive it the more I want to keep it in one bit so I think for now I’ll just be driving it and sorting any smaller issues as and when they arise and just enjoy razzing around for a while. I might do this until Bugjam in July. Hopefully I can drive it there race it and have a better idea where I am with the long drive and racing with the current gearing and make a plan about what to do next.

More to come as I try and catch up again!

Peter
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Neil Davies
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« Reply #149 on: July 25, 2018, 22:01:04 PM »

I can fully sympathize with not wanting to take the car off the road - mine ran out of mot and insurance in early July so I took it off the road for a couple of months while I have holidays and housework and I'm really missing it! I'll have it back on the road when I start my new school in September tho!

Couple of questions about the data you're getting - what sort of sensors are you using for oil temp and pressure, and where do you have them located? I've still got my old VDO gauges for oil temp, oil pressure and cylinder head temp in a box somewhere, but haven't got around to fitting them yet. Just wondering what you do before I fit mine over the six weeks.
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2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
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