Advice on 1776

[Doogster]

Good Morning, New here!   

Hoping for a bit of advice. I am away to start a New Buggy Build using a shell from East coast manx. I want to keep the buggy 1960's period correct and that includes the engine.

Planning on building a nice reliable 1776 but with enough power to be a bit of fun. Not really sure where I should start with it spec wise hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

[Zach Gomulka]

I would start by recommending a 1915 instead. Same cost as a 1776, and you'll have no troubles keeping it cool in an open buggy.
If you want a 1960's vibe a single Zenith would be the way to feed it.

What is your budget?

[Doogster]

Thanks for the advice Zach. What specs should I be looking at then for a 1915? Budget wise it costs what it costs I guess. I am looking to buy parts as and when I can afford too. I have a 1200 single port that will power the buggy when its built until a bigger engine can be sorted.

I am trying to draw up a parts list just now so I can make a start on what I need to get. I was hoping to go down the twin carb route though.

I want to make an engine that will be fun on the street the once a week the car will get driven but will also be capable of sub 14 second quarters.

[Zach Gomulka]

Ok, if you are really set on having the engine look straight outta the 1960's and run sub 14's, carburetion is going to set the boundaries. You are pretty much limited to Solex 40PII's or Weber 48 IDA's (maybe DCNF's as well?). The Solex carbs are fantastic pieces, but you will have a LOT of money wrapped up in a pair by the time you are done. Ask me how I know I'd go with 48's. Easier to find parts, a bit temper-mental but nothing looks more hot rod on a VW engine than a pair of 48's.

A pretty basic 1915 with a Engle 120-ish cam, 9:1, good 40x35.5 heads, 48's, and 1 1/2" exhaust will easily put a light buggy into the 13's.

[Doogster]

Ok, if you are really set on having the engine look straight outta the 1960's and run sub 14's, carburetion is going to set the boundaries. You are pretty much limited to Solex 40PII's or Weber 48 IDA's (maybe DCNF's as well?). The Solex carbs are fantastic pieces, but you will have a LOT of money wrapped up in a pair by the time you are done. Ask me how I know I'd go with 48's. Easier to find parts, a bit temper-mental but nothing looks more hot rod on a VW engine than a pair of 48's.

A pretty basic 1915 with a Engle 120-ish cam, 9:1, good 40x35.5 heads, 48's, and 1 1/2" exhaust will easily put a light buggy into the 13's.

Thanks Zach,

I was already thinking i would like to go the 48IDA ROute    is it possible to buy new and if so whats the quality like?  Do you have a thread on your carbs and the building of them? Would be intrested to read it.

So Starting a parts list, Please note I am a complete newbie so all help appreciated! Please feel free to add other items to my parts list.

I will need an AS41 Case  (duel Relief?)
Pistons (94mm)? again balanced?
Engle 120 Cam
A set of heads 40x35.5 (do i want single or double spring?)
Crankshaft and Flywheel. I take it balanced and lightened.
a set of manifolds
Oil Pump (any recomendations)
Push rod Tubes (any recommendations)
Rockers (any reccomendations)
Rocker covers
And lots more.

[Zach Gomulka]

I never did a build thread on the carbs. Looking back, I should have. They were complicated! To make a long story short, I had some late (68-69) split shaft carbs converted to solid shaft by 356 Carburetor Rescue. They ran beautifully (and still do with the new owner), and sounded like pure sex!! All said and done, I had more money into those carbs than a pair of 48's!

I haven't used the new IDA's, so I can't personally comment on them.

As far as your build sheet goes...
AS41 dual pressure, bored for 94's
Counterweighted crank for sure, I recommend a 69mm welded unit from DPR.
Original rebuilt/balanced rods with good bolts can handle the power easily.
Now is an opportunity to easily build it a little bigger... A 74mm stroker crank with 5.325" rods is an easy build, requires no additional machining, and keeps the engine stock width. 2054cc. Probably cost an extra $300 or so. Something to consider
The cam does not have to be an Engle 120, as I'm sure there are similar but more modern grinds out there that are better.
Properly ported 40x35.5 heads, dual springs. The heads are where the power is made, don't skimp there.
Stainless pushrod tubes stay looking nice
Stock valve covers don't leak
Stock 1.1:1 rockers with bolt together shafts will be fine... 1.4:1 rockers make life a lot easier on the lifter bores, but will cost another $200 or so. You will need HD aluminium or steel pushrods to cope with the additional spring pressure.
26mm aluminium body pump

[Doogster]

Sounds like they were a bit of hassle but worth it in the end mate.

Thanks for your advice with this Zach really appreciated although I can see you could be a bad influence lol, what sort of power gains do you think could be had by stepping up to 2054, what size pistons are required? As you say its a small cost in the greater scheme of things. This car is a 40th birthday present to myself so I am going all in with it. (wont be 40 for 18 months so that's my build time.

I will go away and do some research on new 48idas and see what the thoughts are with them.

[Zach Gomulka]

Yes, when talking more horsepower it is a slippery slope! That's why I asked about budget first, it's good to have some boundaries.
2054 vs 1915, all other specs being the same, I'd guess roughly 10hp and a lot more low rpm torque. Both engines use 94mm pistons, the difference is the stroke, 74mm vs 69mm. Additional displacement will allow you to have a more aggressive cam, bigger valve heads, and still be driveable in the low rpm's. Especially in a lightweight buggy.

Play around with this to see how displacement works. It is the volume of a cylinder, multiplied by the number of cylinders.
http://www.cbperformance.com/v/enginecalc.html

[hotstreetvw]

If your considering IDAs, dive in head first.  I would do no less than 82mm stroke. 

DPR 69mm counterweight $225, 74 $280, 82 $350.  So an extra $125. 
Add stroke clearenced to the case, $70. 
Rebuild stock rods $98, stroke clearenced $125.  So $27.
Mahle 94 As $400, Bs 420.  Another $20

This should build easy and gives you a great platform to expand on.

[andy198712]

It's a crazy slippery slope!

i started building a 1641, then turned into wanting a 1776, then 2110, then 2180, then back to 2110... and about 4 years later i have a 2110 in my beetle.

i built a reasonably mild 1776 for a friend which uses a scat c35 (or was it 25) and he runs a progressive carb on it for now, having driven it and my 2110 (same bore but 82mm crank) has WAY more power over the rev range and thats with a STOCK carb i'm running on it at the min! (soon to ITB's)

BUT for me, going stroker meant i had to clearance the case by hand which took a lot of time to do carefully (i'd recommend paying the machine shop)
buy a stroker clearance camshaft or you'll have to clearance yours like i did mine.

other parts that you should do anyways but can't ovoid with a stroker are custom pushrods, and cylinder shims (to set comparison ratio)


I'm not saying don't do it, just get a plan together and stick to it, other wise 18months will fly by and you'll still have boxes or engine parts in the house that the Mrs will be telling you to "sort out" all the time  

oh and look at webcam 86b and 1.4's compared to a W120, depends if you want it to look 60's or BE 60's internally