roller lifter and cam

[Bad bug]

Ok so who is running roller lifter and cam setup as a daily driver.

[hotstreetvw]

that must be a very small population.

Jason (Stripped66) might be/had.  I'm curious what your questions are for those that are.  Always trying to learn something.

[Bad bug]

Yes i know stripped66 did it. Initially he had problems with it because the lifter created too much angle with the pushrod hence a lot of side load developed in the lifter bore which created premature wear. He had to use a shorter lifter which then reduced the wear, but the person who did his roller setup ( rocky jennings ) i spoke to them last month about doing roller setup and he said he doesn't offer the service.

My question would be what is the reliability like, is there a large selection of cams for this setup, does the engine run quieter with the roller setup ( need to know this i am going to run knock module with my engine ), what is the power output like.

[Martin S.]

We were going to add a knock sensor to my engine too but didn't yet. I like the idea!
The only thing I did to try and reduce the valve train noise, which did help somewhat, is to use aluminum pushrods instead of cromo.
I wonder if the knock sensor would work? When I was checking the block vibration or knocking that was being transferred thru the stainless oil pump/cooler lines it felt like someone was hammering the engine with a small sledge hammer (at idle).

[Bad bug]

Martin, about the knocking, you know you can see it from your AFR tune. The knock should come up as a lean spike. I really want to try the rollers for daily driving. Todd from TF1 is doing some test work for his new roller lifter/cam blocks, these should be nice.

With the cromo pushrods did you set the clearance a loose zero or did you use stock vw clearance. Oh! by the way my ECU will be Megasquirt 3 with the 3X board and lots of monitoring.

[hotstreetvw]

I don't think there is a large selection of cams available, its a limited market.  From what I've read, they require less duration than a flat tappet for the same type of RPM range (due to lifting faster), however, I've also read they don't lift much faster than VW flat tappet due to our lifter face being so large compared to a t4 or V8 lifter.

I have a TF-1 with roller setup that Geers did.  The roller was $1k in addition to the case w/o the cam.  If I had to do over again, I would reconsider.  $500+ cam, $200 springs, $200+ pushrods.  The costs add up fast.  I'm not trying to steer you away, I think the technology is awesome, it just gets expensive.

A couple things to consider
-valve springs, what type of heads are you going to run?  I've heard 0XX castings have trouble with the required spring pressure and I wouldn't consider it a daily driver combo.  I have the MS230 heads and plan on running the CB Pro 850 springs.  They are 1.440" diameter (smaller than k800), install height 1.800" (300lbs), 1.000" max (800lbs), so they will fit in a head cut for Chevy springs.
-how long are those springs going to last?
-fatigue, with high spring forces, everything will be under higher stress.  If your considering aluminum pushrods, consider aluminum does not have a endurance limit and WILL eventually fail.  You can slow it down with double tapered etc.

[Bad bug]

My plan was to use JPM fully assembled heads with his pushrods. I spoke with Shawn Geers and i told him of my concern about the tall lifters and reliability and he said they were not a problem. Since shawn did your engine i will ask you the question. "How is reliability of your engine and how often do you drive it?"

[Martin S.]

Martin, about the knocking, you know you can see it from your AFR tune. The knock should come up as a lean spike. I really want to try the rollers for daily driving. Todd from TF1 is doing some test work for his new roller lifter/cam blocks, these should be nice.

With the cromo pushrods did you set the clearance a loose zero or did you use stock vw clearance. Oh! by the way my ECU will be Megasquirt 3 with the 3X board and lots of monitoring.

I did not use cromo pushrods in my engine. I used the HD al straight ones from Air-cooled.net and they do run quieter than cromo.
I have not tried a knock sensor on my engine, but I would like to.
It makes me sceptical of whether the knock sensor would work on my engine.
It is not knocking due to pre-ignition or detonation. It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 

[hotstreetvw]

Fully assembled as in Oteva valve springs wont cut it.  That is the position I am in right now.  They are cut for Chevy diameter springs, but the Oteva spring is a vw diameter and length, with a thick spring locator to work with the t4 valves.  

My engine isn't finished yet.  Had I gone flat tappet, I'd be a whole lot closer!

Build thread
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,24186.0.html

My plan was to use JPM fully assembled heads with his pushrods. I spoke with Shawn Geers and i told him of my concern about the tall lifters and reliability and he said they were not a problem. Since shawn did your engine i will ask you the question. "How is reliability of your engine and how often do you drive it?"

[Bad bug]

I did not use cromo pushrods in my engine. I used the HD al straight ones from Air-cooled.net and they do run quieter than cromo.
I have not tried a knock sensor on my engine, but I would like to.
It makes me sceptical of whether the knock sensor would work on my engine.
It is not knocking due to pre-ignition or detonation. It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 

Ok. Martin what size engine is this.

[Bad bug]

Fully assembled as in Oteva valve springs wont cut it.  That is the position I am in right now.  They are cut for Chevy diameter springs, but the Oteva spring is a vw diameter and length, with a thick spring locator to work with the t4 valves.  

My engine isn't finished yet.  Had I gone flat tappet, I'd be a whole lot closer!

Build thread
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,24186.0.html

My plan was to use JPM fully assembled heads with his pushrods. I spoke with Shawn Geers and i told him of my concern about the tall lifters and reliability and he said they were not a problem. Since shawn did your engine i will ask you the question. "How is reliability of your engine and how often do you drive it?"

Hmm! I think i need to talk with Johannes soon.

[Martin S.]

I did not use cromo pushrods in my engine. I used the HD al straight ones from Air-cooled.net and they do run quieter than cromo.
I have not tried a knock sensor on my engine, but I would like to.
It makes me sceptical of whether the knock sensor would work on my engine.
It is not knocking due to pre-ignition or detonation. It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 

Ok. Martin what size engine is this.

It's my turbo efi 2332 - 94 x 84 with 5.7" rods 8.5:1 and it feels way different than my previous low compression Berg 1776 with kads.

[bedjo78]

I did not use cromo pushrods in my engine. I used the HD al straight ones from Air-cooled.net and they do run quieter than cromo.
I have not tried a knock sensor on my engine, but I would like to.
It makes me sceptical of whether the knock sensor would work on my engine.
It is not knocking due to pre-ignition or detonation. It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 

Do you run roller tappet with HD aluminim pushrods ?

[Martin S.]

I did not use cromo pushrods in my engine. I used the HD al straight ones from Air-cooled.net and they do run quieter than cromo.
I have not tried a knock sensor on my engine, but I would like to.
It makes me sceptical of whether the knock sensor would work on my engine.
It is not knocking due to pre-ignition or detonation. It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 

Do you run roller tappet with HD aluminim pushrods ?

No, I have regular lifters (webcam). I was interested in the knock sensor comment from the original post.

[Dougy Dee]

It is knocking because it is a big bug engine and if you grab one of the oil lines from the oil pump it is hard to keep a hold on it, even at idle because it is being knocked out of your hands because of the banging going on in my engine. For the same reason, the engine feels like it wants to rip out of the back seat of the car and rip you a new asshole when you get on the gas, like for real! 
[/quote]

Sounds like something is WAY out of balance. Maybe its the Singh grooves

[Martin S.]

Haha yes, or maybe it was the flux capacitor?? 

[Bad bug]

I have a TF-1 with roller setup that Geers did.  The roller was $1k in addition to the case w/o the cam.  If I had to do over again, I would reconsider.  $500+ cam, $200 springs, $200+ pushrods.  The costs add up fast.  I'm not trying to steer you away, I think the technology is awesome, it just gets expensive.

Well hotstreetvw you were right. I spoke to johannes this morning and rollers are off the table, he recommends flat tappet lifter and cam.