Brake setup front and rear

[Jesse/DVK]

Hi all,

For my '67 project beetle I would like to have disc brakes all around with 5x130pcd.

For the front I'm thinking of using this bracket http://vdubengineering.com/products/brake-parent/type13/wilwood-bracket-for-beetles/ to use with stock discs and a wilwood caliper.

I would like to have a wilwood caliper also on the rear to match the set. I noticed that sometimes these http://www.wilwood.com/calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Combination%20P-Brake calipers are used but I can seem to find out who makes brackets for these and which disc you should use with them.

Furthermore I would like to know your opinions on using a residual pressure valve. Is this a must?

Thanks Jesse

[Bruce]

t http://vdubengineering.com/products/brake-parent/type13/wilwood-bracket-for-beetles/

I think that's got to be about the worst design for a bracket you could make.  The part that attaches to the spindle is far too thin and will flex a huge amount when you get on the brakes.  Also, why didn't they weld the two parts?  Two screws instead of fully welded is asking for a failure.

IMO you're better off using stock Karmann Ghia front spindles.  Those have zero parts between the caliper and the spindle to fall apart.

A residual pressure valve is designed for drum brakes.  They take up the slack in the "mechanism" of the shoes/springs etc. so that braking is more responsive.  Note, VW abandoned them in 1970.  Lately, people have been installing them on disc brake cars at the recommendation of parts sellers that have to deal with inexperienced installers that can't get their brakes sorted out.  In other words, it covers up the problem.  What it does is holds pressure against the piston, preventing it from properly retracting.  This means the brake pads are constantly dragging against the rotors. That sounds like a bad idea to me.

[Olaf A./DFL]

I'd go with a full CSP front and rear Brake Kit - easy to install and there will be no troubles at all. My Club Buddy Tobi has the full Set-Up and he's quiet happy with it.

[Christoph]

I would go the CSP route as Olaf mentioned or Kerscher brakes.

http://www.kerscher-tuning.de/kaefer/

[DWL_Puavo]

I think that's got to be about the worst design for a bracket you could make.  The part that attaches to the spindle is far too thin and will flex a huge amount when you get on the brakes.  Also, why didn't they weld the two parts?  Two screws instead of fully welded is asking for a failure.

This may have something to do with MOT - at least here in Finland you can't use any welded together brake parts if you don't have correct certifications (TÜV or similar) for the welded parts. "Factory made" usually is enough, and for example adjustable front axles should have some kind of certificate to prove that they are not made by yourself.

...but then it's legal to use simple bolt-on aluminium crossbars that convert the normal caliper brackets to radial mounted calipers and you can adjust the "height" of the caliper with normal shims on normal bolts... I suppose there isn't even any official requirements for the strength of the bolts.

[wolfswest]

Sorry to hijack your topic a bit Jesse but this is interesting!

I have stock disc brakes up front combined with stock drums.  All new material bought 7-8 years ago.  I’ve also been thinking about a rear dick brake conversion from time to time.  The Kerscher or csp set looks interesting.

With both kits you also need another brake master I guess? 

I’m also looking for some stories, experiences from guys who did the conversion?  If I slam the brakes right now it just locks up and… well, that’s kind of the end the story I guess. 
I have 175’s in front and the usual 205/70’s in the back.  Will it improve the braking a lot?  Better distribution on brake load?  Or does it lock up as well?

Why would you go further down the road and invest in even bigger discs and wildwood brake calipers Jesse?

[Felix/DFL]

Sorry to hijack your topic a bit Jesse but this is interesting!

I have stock disc brakes up front combined with stock drums.  All new material bought 7-8 years ago.  I’ve also been thinking about a rear dick brake conversion from time to time.  The Kerscher or csp set looks interesting.

With both kits you also need another brake master I guess? 

I’m also looking for some stories, experiences from guys who did the conversion?  If I slam the brakes right now it just locks up and… well, that’s kind of the end the story I guess. 
I have 175’s in front and the usual 205/70’s in the back.  Will it improve the braking a lot?  Better distribution on brake load?  Or does it lock up as well?

Why would you go further down the road and invest in even bigger discs and wildwood brake calipers Jesse?

Hi,
I am driving the kerscher rear discs with the 20.64mm master cylinder, that gave better response. All in my67  notch front setup  is stock.
Before that I used bug brakes (cause of the porsche pattern, didn`t wanted to drill the typ-3 parts..) with the 19mm brake cylinders. That setup was really bad. Had 145`s at front and it locked up at front so early.
Now with the Kerscher 165`s front/ back 205 the braking improved a lot. To me it makes sense going to a stronger setup at the rear with the big & little tires.
But I would not buy the Kerscher again. Why?
Not all the mounting stuff was included and the bearing  spacer under the disc was to soft and seized...
Upgraded with CSP parts and now I am very pleased lately. So buy the CSP parts in first order and forget about the rest.
Have fun!

[Eddie DVK]

http://www.keversite.nl/prikbord/adv.php?id=50561 

[Jesse/DVK]

Thanks all. Yes Wolfwest you a correct maybe the 4 pot calipers are a bit to much at the front. But they do look nice .

Looks like I will go with stock disc brakes up front and CSP at the rear with a 20.64mm master.

[Chip]

I have 4 wheel discs on my 60, I used Airkewld as my supplier, 4 pots in front, and just the industry standard e-brake style in back. I have Continental 145s up front and haven't had any issues with them locking up. I haven't had any panic brake situations I guess, but the 2000lb car easily stops after 120mph passes on the drag strip. The drums I used to have didn't come close in stopping power. It was all I could do to slow it down enough to turn the car off of the racetrack.

The discs are very responsive on the street too. I installed a master cylinder valved for 4 wheel discs, and nothing else. I haven't felt like there were any bias issues so far.

[wolfswest]

Thanks all. Yes Wolfwest you a correct maybe the 4 pot calipers are a bit to much at the front. But they do look nice .

Looks like I will go with stock disc brakes up front and CSP at the rear with a 20.64mm master.

Jesse,

is a 20.64mm master a stock dual circuit master cilinder or is it bigger?  I have a stock dual circuit master cilinder, it's stock I guess but I don't know the specs.  Will it work?  Or do I need an upgrade?

Someone mentioned the CB performance setup as a good kit.  Anyone experience (good/bad) with that kit? It's quite a bit cheaper then the CSP version.