Is a kafer trus bar enough support for frame horns?

[numbnuts]

Hi guys
just starting the installation of my engine and I wanted to know if the kafer trus bar will be enough support for the frame horns?
I have seen a few other versions that tie into the underside of the parcel tray, is this overkill?
Engine is about 250hp prodrag box etc and no slicks
cheers

[folkevogn]

Hi guys
just starting the installation of my engine and I wanted to know if the kafer trus bar will be enough support for the frame horns?
I have seen a few other versions that tie into the underside of the parcel tray, is this overkill?
Engine is about 250hp prodrag box etc and no slicks
cheers

It's not overkill,

It's a much cheaper and better way to stop the movement of the frame horns. Plus, less of a chance that your exaust tubes will be in the way.

Best regards,

Folke Vogn

[Erlend / bug66]

Is your car caged?

If so. Just tie your roll cage to your gearbox mount.

[Erlend / bug66]

[andy198712]

do you just plate the top and bolt that to the parcel area?

[Erlend / bug66]

Matches the plates on the rear of the cage.

The gearbox mount is now a cradle, bolted to the cage

[modnrod]

Mine is similar, but made to support the frame horns over lots of corrugated and potholed gravel roads rather than 200+HP.

[BeetleBug]

Mine is similar, but made to support the frame horns over lots of corrugated and potholed gravel roads rather than 200+HP.

Very nice and clean!

I bluntly copied Adele when my cage was done but I can bolt mine off on both sides so that I can easily remove my gearbox:







-BB-

[spanners]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KWFrznY2eeTCK3ZZxm8e84aomAcYggfEBA

The frame horn support is already supplied from the factory😋, The trans/motor interface is all you need, making it a semi stressed member, a simple Half motor plate ties it all in to reinforcing on the firewall as required, mine has a very light cross member and light risers with captive fixings, my Wassers are heavier than Aircooled T1 style motors but I've used this method for centuries with no problems, more packaging space and light weight to claim back some Wasser weight are pluses, the same trick as I used in Rallycross with 300hp and turbo torque, but with no frame horns , it survived a huge impact with a marshals post that ripped out an a arm and pulled the torsion housing back 6 inches, but nothing moved with the motor location and it raced again with Mac strut and wishbone rear suspension.  I raced this present car with the lower cradle bolts removed as a test for planned frame horn removal, but this idea has been shelved for other reason, but the test was trouble free. 😎

[baz]

That's very neat. I've been considering doing something with my car while it's apart,  think I've found the solution! 

Is the half plate homemade or something you can buy off the shelf?

[baz]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KWFrznY2eeTCK3ZZxm8e84aomAcYggfEBA

The frame horn support is already supplied from the factory😋, The trans/motor interface is all you need, making it a semi stressed member, a simple Half motor plate ties it all in to reinforcing on the firewall as required, mine has a very light cross member and light risers with captive fixings, my Wassers are heavier than Aircooled T1 style motors but I've used this method for centuries with no problems, more packaging space and light weight to claim back some Wasser weight are pluses, the same trick as I used in Rallycross with 300hp and turbo torque, but with no frame horns , it survived a huge impact with a marshals post that ripped out an a arm and pulled the torsion housing back 6 inches, but nothing moved with the motor location and it raced again with Mac strut and wishbone rear suspension.  I raced this present car with the lower cradle bolts removed as a test for planned frame horn removal, but this idea has been shelved for other reason, but the test was trouble free. 😎

Looking at this again and wondering if it would work with full tinware and fan housing?   Love the simplicity just not sure it would work for me?

[spanners]

It's all home brew Baz, I ran a simpler version in Aircooled beetle cup racing hidden behind the fan housing, nobody ever sussed it in 10 years!  just a basic cross member with captives and two simple drops to the engine bolts, just a pair of 4mm X 25mm flat mild steel, we had only 100 fwhp and as a traction device it was superb. The device pictured is more extreme with inclined and raised motor and trans, at the exhaust were it maters its raised around 85mm as I have aero under tray to clear the exhaust etc and the top of the bell housing is removed to clear the cross member,T4 style but more extreme, you are right, it would be tight on T1 tinware etc, the lh carb is the limiting factor right near the firewall, but it's fine as nothing moves believe me, but you need not go as extreme or robust as I have to get it done, the bell housing is REALY tough, once the motors registered in there and bolted up, it's bomb proof and needs no further support which just adds weight, I'm not knocking other methods at all, I just needed more room for coolers and rads and turbo plumbing/ intercoller when I did it originally with wasser motors way back about '86, old git that I am..

[dannyboy]

i did a version like this but welded a bolt not the bottom of tube so i could remove the gearbox with axles on .it was tight but could be removed if cradle was unbolted .made huge difference to rear end

[baz]

It's all home brew Baz, I ran a simpler version in Aircooled beetle cup racing hidden behind the fan housing, nobody ever sussed it in 10 years!  just a basic cross member with captives and two simple drops to the engine bolts, just a pair of 4mm X 25mm flat mild steel, we had only 100 fwhp and as a traction device it was superb. The device pictured is more extreme with inclined and raised motor and trans, at the exhaust were it maters its raised around 85mm as I have aero under tray to clear the exhaust etc and the top of the bell housing is removed to clear the cross member,T4 style but more extreme, you are right, it would be tight on T1 tinware etc, the lh carb is the limiting factor right near the firewall, but it's fine as nothing moves believe me, but you need not go as extreme or robust as I have to get it done, the bell housing is REALY tough, once the motors registered in there and bolted up, it's bomb proof and needs no further support which just adds weight, I'm not knocking other methods at all, I just needed more room for coolers and rads and turbo plumbing/ intercoller when I did it originally with wasser motors way back about '86, old git that I am..

Thanks for the info. Gonna have a good look at my car tomorrow and see if I can work out a plan to make something similar. Still concerned about tinware getting in the way and being a right pain to get access to. 

[baz]

It's all home brew Baz, I ran a simpler version in Aircooled beetle cup racing hidden behind the fan housing, nobody ever sussed it in 10 years!  just a basic cross member with captives and two simple drops to the engine bolts, just a pair of 4mm X 25mm flat mild steel, we had only 100 fwhp and as a traction device it was superb. The device pictured is more extreme with inclined and raised motor and trans, at the exhaust were it maters its raised around 85mm as I have aero under tray to clear the exhaust etc and the top of the bell housing is removed to clear the cross member,T4 style but more extreme, you are right, it would be tight on T1 tinware etc, the lh carb is the limiting factor right near the firewall, but it's fine as nothing moves believe me, but you need not go as extreme or robust as I have to get it done, the bell housing is REALY tough, once the motors registered in there and bolted up, it's bomb proof and needs no further support which just adds weight, I'm not knocking other methods at all, I just needed more room for coolers and rads and turbo plumbing/ intercoller when I did it originally with wasser motors way back about '86, old git that I am..

Thanks for the info. Gonna have a good look at my car tomorrow and see if I can work out a plan to make something similar. Still concerned about tinware getting in the way and being a right pain to get access to. 

I guess if you could pull the altenator and fan from the housing it would make access in there much easier.  I recall reading an article years ago from Mr KS in whichever mag he was with at the time,  in which he converted the alt stand from studs and nuts to inserts and bolts. Makes pulling the fan assembly easy peasy with the motor in the car.

Same mod would make reaching those bolts much easier too

[spanners]

Yes, That's a good idea on any race car, but ours had good access to the fixings via ratchet ring spanner, only a doghouse fan shroud would be tight, I don't use those as no true circuit racer runs without having remote coolers. Think it was on samba I saw another set up with plates nut and bolted either side of the firewall, not pretty but I read it worked.
And you have to admire the simplicity of a simple cheapo traction bar under the sump that hangs off the bumper mounts via some bent rods, nothing wrong there at all, I love simple and light, and they work too, but we corner cut and crash over kerbs lots so it would be torn off at the first turn, as you said correctly, it has to work for you, Good luck with whatever you devise tho.

[baz]

Yes, That's a good idea on any race car, but ours had good access to the fixings via ratchet ring spanner, only a doghouse fan shroud would be tight, I don't use those as no true circuit racer runs without having remote coolers. Think it was on samba I saw another set up with plates nut and bolted either side of the firewall, not pretty but I read it worked.
And you have to admire the simplicity of a simple cheapo traction bar under the sump that hangs off the bumper mounts via some bent rods, nothing wrong there at all, I love simple and light, and they work too, but we corner cut and crash over kerbs lots so it would be torn off at the first turn, as you said correctly, it has to work for you, Good luck with whatever you devise tho.

I had thought of bolting from inside the car but I'll be running full interior and carpets so would be a pain to remove every time I need access.

Think a traction bar would interfere with my exhaust.

Pretty sure I can copy your set up and make it work for me.

Thanks for the idea.