Head Porting

[andrewlandon67]

Due to unforseen circumstances, my 1914 has had to come apart, with a new cam, case, lifters, and rockers in the pipeline. I'm looking at this as an opportunity to do the things I would have done the first time around, had I not outright bought a longblock. Full-flow, deep sump, dual valve springs, a little more compression, and of course, porting my heads. They're some brand's 044 castings, no logos, with 40x35.5 valves, and the intake and exhaust ports don't seem to be much bigger than standard dual-port heads. Since I'm going to be pulling the heads apart anyways, I figured I'd get them flowing a little higher, especially since an FK8 is going in the bottom end this time around. As I've never done any port work before this, I'd definitely like some advice before I start drilling away and ruin a perfectly decent set of 9k mile heads.

The long and the short of it is, what the hell do I do, and how do I not screw it up totally? I understand that I'm not going to be making them enormous, as I'm only running 44 mm HPMX carbs, and a 1 1/2 inch merged exhaust, but these heads have got to have some more power to give! I'm also going to attempt to be smart about this and match-port the manifolds, which are just the EMPI castings that came with the carbs.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

[baz]

I'd talk to someone like Alan at gac. He can flow test your heads and work them to best suit your needs.

Edit. Alan may be a little too far for you.   

[Zach Gomulka]

My buddy built a similar 1915 a while back. K8 cam, Tims stage 2's, 1 5/8", 9ish:1, and borrowed my 48's. It ran well, did 13.9's in the 1/4 only using the first three gears in a fairly light 67 sedan. It was a little soft on the bottom end though. If it was my engine I'd dial back the cam choice just a little, should match up better with your slightly smaller carbs, heads, and exhaust. Just my two pennies worth.

[nicolas]

interesting combo in my opinion. it would work with the FK8 and yes it may be a bit 'soft' in lower rpms. but it can be great fun. if it were me either get someone to do the heads with these valve sizes and make them work. or like Zach suggests look at Steve Tims stage 2 heads or similar. the carbs will be fine, maybe you could step up the header size, but for now i again would keep it, this may well be the best choice.
i am running 40x35 valved heads in a 2007cc engine, reworked los bandidos, and i haven't hit the ceiling with the output on those…

[brian e]

With the smaller displacement, I would consider the new CB 044 Panchito heads, Tims S1's, or have someone good do up your 044's.  I would think a 40mm intake that can pull about 170cfm @ 28", and a smallish approx. 66cc port volume would work really well with the FK8.

According to a choke point calculator, a 1915cc w/ a 42mm intake will rev to 7500rpm, and a 40mm will rev to 6800rpm.  I think the 40mm will keep the airspeed higher, helping with the low end.  I just finished a set of older 044 castings and I ended up with 178cfm @ .525"lift, and 28".  They only had a 67cc port volume.  These went on a 2276cc with a CB2288 (FK8), and 44IDF's.  Huge torque.  More low end then an almost identical engine with Tim's S2.

I guess I am a fan of high airspeed 40x35 heads unless you have a 2200+cc revving over 5800rpm all the time.

Brian

[leec]

Give Lee Maynard a call, he will re-work your current heads.
Lee

[andrewlandon67]

So the dumb question of the day is, how do I check port volume? I'm imagining something similar to cc'ing the combustion chamber on a head, but with the intake port on a fully assembled head. And all things considered, I'm looking more for keeping it somewhat low budget, if that's any help.

[modnrod]

................. I just finished a set of older 044 castings and I ended up with 178cfm @ .525"lift, and 28".  They only had a 67cc port volume..........  
Brian

I'd give Brian E a call, and post him your heads. Good numbers.  

[modnrod]

One more point. If you send out your heads you will get a better job than if you did it yourself 90% of the time, but then YOU didn't do it.
Sometimes it's more rewarding to get a nice result yourself than an excellent result by paying someone.

So, if you're starting from scratch do some research to get some knowledge and confidence before your start. Remember that you can get 15-20% just in a good valve seat and nice valves alone sometimes.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Hot-Rod-Volkswagen-Engines/dp/0912656034
(people scoff at it sometimes, it's not perfect advice, but it works).

https://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards-Cylinder-Heads-Design/dp/1934709646/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486686543&sr=1-1&keywords=david+vizard+cylinder+heads
He's a funny bloke sometimes, but this is a great back to basics that will get you started off nicely.

Google until the world stops turning, heaps of info out there now.

[brian e]

Unless you plan to core the guides and press them out, there isn't too much you can do to improve them. You can blend the bowl and blend the seats into the chamber, but the guide will need to be out of there to be able to work on the important areas.

Those two books listed are good, as well as "engine airflow by Harold Bettes".  Be careful what you read. Most of the "DIY head porting" articles floating around the web might get you in trouble.  Bigger is not better. Material removed from certain areas and not touched in others is what you need.  Fast moving ports, with the correct cross section are where the power is.

What ever you do, make sure to get a 3 angle valve job once you are all done, and make sure the manifolds are ported all the way up. They are an extension of the port, and should work together with the head.  Both need to be designed together.

Compared to some guys, I hardley know what I am doing, but after building and running about 20 sets of heads I think I am starting to get it figured out.  Every engine seems to run better then the last.  I do know after building and testing my latest set of heads, the first set I tried to do are pretty embarrassing.  We all have to start somewhere I suppose.

Brian.

[andrewlandon67]

It's starting to dawn on me how over my head(s) I might be... anybody have a rough idea of the cost to just send mine out and have them done by someone?
Thanks again for all the advice!

Edit: Zach, what would you consider to be dialing back the cam choice a little bit?

[Zach Gomulka]

Sending your heads out will probably be more expensive than buying a set of Panchito's ready to go. Labor is expensive.

So, speaking of 1915's, after that K8 1915 I built another 1915 for my buddy that was dialed back a bit. Installed in another 67, this one a lot closer to stock weight. 120x1.25's, ported 40x35.5 044's, 8.8:1, 1 1/2", and the same 48's. It is a very well balanced engine, power wise. Very drivable down low, but will still pull up to 7k if you want it to. I'm sure it would be even better with a set of 44's but you know, IDA's It's the whole combination of going down a half a size on every component that makes it a much different engine.

In your case, I'd stick with something like a 120 but with your 1.4 rockers (assuming you already have those?)

[brian e]

I agree with Zack.  It will most likely be cheaper and easier to order new heads and sell yours the way they are. 

With some of the parts you have, I would build this.
1915cc
new 044 Panchito heads
Web 110/163 cam
1 1/2" header
9.0:1 or maybe 9.5:1
.045" deck height
light flywheel
44idf's

Brian

[andrewlandon67]

Part of the reason I've been looking at something like the K8 is that a friend of mine needs a set of 1.25s to go with the W130 in his 2332 project, and since I have a good set of them, we've worked out a bit of an exchange. I'm also looking for something a little different, and maybe a little more high-strung than the W120 that I ran previously. The shop drag/street car where I work runs the K8 with similar heads, non-matched manifolds, and something like 10.5:1 compression, and I really enjoy the way the power builds, then skyrockets right at 4k, but is still reasonably streetable, despite running IDAs with 40mm vents. Granted, it has been wideband tuned, and has quite a bit more displacement than a little 1914, but I'd reckon that my car, with a little less compression, smoother flowing heads, and carbs/vents more appropriately sized could run reasonably similarly, if not quite as frantic. I've been looking at heads a bit too, and if I were to get the Panchito heads, with dual springs, titanium retainers, and match-ported manifolds, I'd probably end up running a little over the cost of some Tim's stage 1 heads, but I'd still have to match up my manifolds.  Zach, I think we've talked about my motor and I ended up buying the 1 1/2 merged system on your and Ratto's reccomendations. Unbelievable the difference between a simple header that was too small, and a properly sized and merged header...

[PPRMicke]

a link to the filing of the cylinder head
how to do it
it is in Swedish, but there's Google Translate
http://boxerville.se/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10359

PPR Micke

[Neil Davies]

Match porting the manifolds to the heads is the easiest way of freeing up some power. I used to use the grey fibre Empi/Bugpack/CB manifold gaskets and open up both the head and the manifold to the same size as the gasket. The head itself just got a gentle smooth out and the manifold likewise as far up as I could get. I'm no expert but it worked for me and cost nothing other than time.

[andrewlandon67]

Thank you guys all for the advice! Well, after some thought, I've decided to try out the Panchito 044 heads, as it seems like the best bang-for-the-buck, without the potential of ruining a perfectly good set of medium-performance heads... Now I just need to get rid of some clutter... On that note, is anyone looking for a single-port Kadron kit or a good set of heads? 

Another thought I've had about my whole motor fiasco is that the jetting/emulsion tubes currently residing in my 44's might not be enough to support that lumpy bastard of a cam... anyone have a good ballpark to start in? Current jets are 140/f11/200, if that's any help...

[nicolas]

Thank you guys all for the advice! Well, after some thought, I've decided to try out the Panchito 044 heads, as it seems like the best bang-for-the-buck, without the potential of ruining a perfectly good set of medium-performance heads... Now I just need to get rid of some clutter... On that note, is anyone looking for a single-port Kadron kit or a good set of heads?  

Another thought I've had about my whole motor fiasco is that the jetting/emulsion tubes currently residing in my 44's might not be enough to support that lumpy bastard of a cam... anyone have a good ballpark to start in? Current jets are 140/f11/200, if that's any help...

the jetting could use a 145 or 150 main (depending on the vents, but i presume 32 or 34). idle would work with a .55, keep the 200 air and F11.

[andrewlandon67]

Actually, my vents are 36... I assume that means I should go yet another step up on the mains?

[nicolas]

Actually, my vents are 36... I assume that means I should go yet another step up on the mains?

150 for setting it up, go from there.

[RaptorLou]

I have 2 - 2110's that I have Panchito's on, very nice heads and port speed is fast. Nice 89% V/T ratio. I used to run the CB mini wedges wit 42mm valves, but port speed was lazy side. One motor has FC425 FAT cam the other is Web 121 both run strong. My Weber with 34mm vents is 175M/190AC F7 160 idle.

[Greg Ward]

Hi Andrew,

I have used 44IDF's on a multitude of engines since about 1991, and there is one thing I have found in common with them all.

It doesn't matter whether the engine was a 1600cc with stock heads ported very well with a serious cam that had max revs to 7000, a 1916cc with an FK89 equivalent and Fred Simpson ported Street Eliminators that had max revs to 8000, or my current JPM Headed, JPM cammed 1916cc that has max revs to 9000rpm, one thing remained constant.
And that was if I used 44IDF's, all 3 engine combinations used the same jetting!

That was tested and verified with a wideband A/F meter with between 12.5-12.8 air fuel ratio for each engine as the optimal in tune range.

All of my engines and combinations used 36mm Venturies   140/145main, F11 tubes, 185Airs, 55idles, 50 Pump squirters, 55float bowl return valves.

I know my gas over here in Australia is a bit different to you guys, but your jetting is pretty close to the above minus the air jets, I keep seeing these all over the place and way higher than what the original Weber 44 was supplied with which was a 175.
The airs start working at 5500-6000 and above, or in my 9000rpm engine about 6500-7000, I'm not sure where the idea that a 200air originated from ,as all the new carbs seem to be supplied with them, but they are WAY too lean for any engine I've ever run them on, it always seems to end up at a 185 which really wakes up the top end of the engine, I've also never seen a 44IDF need anything more than a 145main jet maximum, 150mains are what come standard with a 48IDF that has 40mm Venturies as standard.

On a friends 1600 engine that I built , it has a set of latest 44 HPMX carbs with the choke delete cast in, and these came with 135main, 50idle and 200 air.
This proved to be far too lean all through the range, the top end (air corrections) was a horribly lean 16:1 A/F! which simply fell over after 5500rpm.

It ended up at 140main/55idle/185air and had that lovely 12.6-12.7 A/F which was crisp pulling power all the way through to its 7000rom limiter.

Just last weekend that little engine went 9.3secs at 72MPH for the 1/8th which was pretty good for a stock VW 311 headed 1600 (1584cc)

Hope some of that helps.

Cheers,

Greg

[Jim Ratto]

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Part of the reason I've been looking at something like the K8 is that a friend of mine needs a set of 1.25s to go with the W130 in his 2332 project, and since I have a good set of them, we've worked out a bit of an exchange. I'm also looking for something a little different, and maybe a little more high-strung than the W120 that I ran previously. The shop drag/street car where I work runs the K8 with similar heads, non-matched manifolds, and something like 10.5:1 compression, and I really enjoy the way the power builds, then skyrockets right at 4k, but is still reasonably streetable, despite running IDAs with 40mm vents. Granted, it has been wideband tuned, and has quite a bit more displacement than a little 1914, but I'd reckon that my car, with a little less compression, smoother flowing heads, and carbs/vents more appropriately sized could run reasonably similarly, if not quite as frantic. I've been looking at heads a bit too, and if I were to get the Panchito heads, with dual springs, titanium retainers, and match-ported manifolds, I'd probably end up running a little over the cost of some Tim's stage 1 heads, but I'd still have to match up my manifolds.  Zach, I think we've talked about my motor and I ended up buying the 1 1/2 merged system on your and Ratto's reccomendations. Unbelievable the difference between a simple header that was too small, and a properly sized and merged header...

The K8 will run great, provided you keep port cross section small (appropriate for 40mm valve), port manifolds with taper (don't just hog out bottom 1-1/2" up into manifold) and set cam timing to intake lobe midpoint occurs @ 104 ATDC
With 40mm valve, 35mm port diameter, K8 advanced 4 degrees, it should make for a perfect balanced setup. Powerband runs from just under 3000 to 6800, peak hp @ 6200. With 34mm venturi.

[andrewlandon67]

Well, damn.  I kinda forgot about this thread not long after my last post on it, and quite a few things have changed. I ended up going with an FK-8 (.534@ valve, 258 degrees @ .050, 108 degree lobe centers) with the Empi GTV-2 Stage 1 heads (40x35.5) @ a shade under 9:1 compression. It's also dawned on me that I may not have realized there's a difference between the FK-8 and the older K8, so apologies for that. I'm still running the 44 HPMXs with 36mm vents and a few months back, after a few hours on the wideband, wound up at 150/F11/190 jetting, with 60 idles and stock everything else. So far, it's run consistent 15.3s at 6000+ feet elevation, with the occasional 15.1, mostly due to driver error. Just this last weekend, some friends and I took it to a Rock'n'Roll car weekend at a slightly lower elevation, 5300 feet,and 1/8th mile strip. Given a distinct lack of traction and a hungover driver, the best time I saw all day was a 9.4 1/8, compared to average 9.6s and 9.7s at my home track. Keeping in mind that the car made 9+ passes, and drove the 200 miles there and back without a single hiccup, I'd have to say I'm pretty pleased with how smooth it is, and how happy it is to cruise at 3300 RPM on the interstate. I was also a bit surprised at how many people had never really seen any fast VWs, but that's a post for a different place   I really appreciate everyone's advice, thank you all!