15 years of ownership => eternal search for better driving experience

[wolfswest]

Hi guys,

I had a sudden urge to share a story so here it is.  I own my car for 15 years now and the love is still strong.  Yes, I must admit it's definitely a love - hate affair and it's been a rollercoaster of up's and downs.  Many of you can relate to these feelings I guess.  Fact is that I've owned some other vintage hobby cars the last years.  I've been into the California look for a long time but sometimes you run against the limitations of really enjoying your car to it's full potential.  I live in Belgium where we don't have that endless summer feeling like in South California.  The winters are cold and wet so the beetle is mostly a spring - summer - early autumn car. 
you know...  big engine means big exhaust, big exhaust means no heater for starters.  Cold, foggy windows, driving gloves and winter jacket if you really want to take it out for a spin but sometimes you need that thrill ride no matter how cold it is.

Like I said before, I've had some other rides along the way.  I guess I've spent the last years too much time on sites like Petrolicious and I was looking for an all round vintage driving experience.  I've tried a few cars to say the least.

First I bought an extra notchback 1500S 1963, early 64 model with drums.  Looked nice, was a driver but had some technical issues.  Soon I realised that some Type 3 parts are just hard to get and extremely stupid expensive.  Brakes needed an overhaul...  Searched some NOS parts and looked at the prices, that wasn't going to happen so I sold it.

After I sold the notchback I bought a 1974 Alfa Romeo Bertone Junior 1300 Lusso.  Nice car, twin cam, dual webers, 4 disc brakes, 5 speed gearbox, lowered suspension, nice wheels.  For me it was an extremely beautiful car but it lacked horsepower, liked RPM's and the brakes were bad, not to mention the electric department  .  I've upgraded the brakes with new parts, drilled & ventilated disc brakes, ferodo pads etc etc, still not what I was looking for.  The car was also screaming for the obvious 1750 or 2000 engine.  Did the math, made a list and drew a line under this project.  Sold it.

Next in line was a 1975 BMW 2002 with 1800 engine.  After the Italian experience I was looking for the "Deutsche Gründlichkeit".  Well think again.  Here I was back with a 4 speed gearbox, drums in the rear.  The search for backseat seat belts almost cost my life.  Yeah, they exsist, 600 dollars.    The gearbox was sloppy, the driving train needed a few new parts for that tight feeling, the 1800 was better then the 1300 but not that much.  I tweaked the dual down draft weber a bit, installed an electronic aftermarket ignition, installed lowering springs but the love affair was over before I knew it.  Window rubbers were worn out, the heater was bad, the engine had no torque and not enough power to have fun.  Yeah, it looked like an Alpina but some sideways action was impossible so it had to go.

Then came the biggest nightmare of them all.  I tried another BMW.  A 1977 BMW E12 525 6 cilinder, 150HP.  It had power steering, cool!  electric windows, mirrors.  Heater was fine before it broke down    The previous owner installed a shady lowering kit so I upgraded it with spax coilovers.  Way better but it kept handling like a boat.  It's a big car after all.  The SOLEX 4A1 carburator is the biggest piece of sh*t you can imagine.  If you ever see one, RUN!!  the 1977 model came with the 4 speed gearbox which isn't comfortable for autobahn cruising.  The car left me stranded a numerous of times.  The most ridiculous part that you can imagine failed.  Even the hazard button exploded when the car was in garage for a few months, I kid you not.
It looked so sweet on period BBS rims, BBS rear spoiler and alpina air dam but it was a nightmare.  6 cilinder 2500cc, you expect something.  Well, think again, this car is a dog!  Finally I pulled the plug and sold it.

The last one on the list, which I still have is a 1984 vw golf 2 GTI 8v.  So far so good.  Nicely done suspension.  Heater is okay, it's comfortable to take it out with the 2 kids, 5 speed gearbox, 4 disc brakes.  I've upgraded it with a hot cam and a header.  So far I love it, the kjetronic engine is really responsive and with the short gears it pulls nice and has good use of the torque the engine supplies.  But for me it's lacking soul, I miss that 70's feeling, I miss some chrome (is that a callook thing to say?)  Although it's 33 years old it's not really a vintage car, it's too modern.

Soooo...  long story short back to my first car, the car that started it all.  My 72 beetle that I modified to a pre 67 beetle.  What was wrong with this car?  Why do I need another hobby car?  Last year I decided to erase my mistakes from the past when I was young(er) and stupid.  With the help of a friend we transformed it back to a 72 spec car!  With the budget in mind we didn't go for a respray and left the color as is.  It was a big job, still costed fair a bit of money but I'm glad I finally pulled the trigger to make things right.  Yeah, I've could have sold the car in pieces, kept the go fast parts searched for a 67 shell and started all over again but that wouldn't be my car, my first car.  I own it for 15 years now, I'm the second owner and I plan to keep it forever if the future let me.

This year my quest was to improve the handling and brake department.  The car had already disc brakes in front but since a few weeks I've upgraded the rear with a CSP 5X130 disc brake kit.  A nice improvement, it feels firm and it does make me feel a bit safer so that's a good thing, right?
I've also added a sway a way bar, what an improvement!  I can recommend it to everybody.  In the front I've upgraded to 2 sets of camber shims instead of 1 set.  Also a nice improvement for the handling and it also gives me a bit more of travel for the suspension.  I kid you not, the car rides a lot softer, less harsh. 
Next on the list is to modify a stock camber compensator bar so it will fit my narrowed beam.  I don't want to install a bigger aftermarket bar because it will make the ride harsh again.

And of course the list continues: 
-Maybe ditch the cool looking simpson belts with a stock looking 3 point safety belt?  Yeah, not that cool but safer!
-The gearbox wine...
-the shady new TRW steering house that doesn't feel that good although it's new... 
-...

In the past I've already ditched the 145 front tires for 175 tires with the same height and my quest continues to create a real driver with a Callook appearance!  Many topics have been written about it but I'm certain it's possible to create something that will handle nice, stop nice, have a bit of comfort, handles long distances and still have that oldskool 70's vibe. 

Getting old or just moving on with what you've got? 

One thing I know for sure, All the iconic 70's cars aren't that iconic how sites like Petrolicious makes you believe they are.  Nice pictures doesn't bring driving pleasure!  Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling that the beetle is the best car out there but all the other cars have flaws too.  And most of them on the second hand market come with a new shiny paintjob but with old rubbers, a tired gearbox, sloppy suspension and the list continues.  If you don't invest in some decent hop up parts and a complete overhaul in the technical department the happy feeling will soon fade.

I went to the European Bug in last weekend and came home tired due to really bad weather.  I washed the car and took it for a relaxed spin around the country.  Still not there yet but it puts a huge smile on my face!

Happiness is a hot vw!

Can you relate on my story?  What's your vision?

thx,

Dem

[wolfswest]

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[wolfswest]

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[Jim Ratto]

Man I applaud your journey. And car looks AWESOME.

I can completely relate. All I want out of my own '67 is for it to be as fast as can be, without the limitations and drama of a prima-donna, race-car with turn signals and current tags. In the last few years I've made some decisions and changes to my car that certainly challenge those that apply rules and restrictions to the hobby, but in the end, have extended the life the car and I have. Most recently was the CSP discs I put up front. Before that was a pair of Recaros and a CSP 42mm exhaust.

Cool story, nice to hear you've tried alternatives, but came back to the VW. I know I would do the same.

[Neil Davies]

Wow Dem, you've gone from having a really cool pre-67 look car to having an amazing looking late looker! It just looks right.

I'm probably gong to go the other way with my car. The realisation tonight that its not as good condition-wise as I remember it being has hit home. Found some not great repairs from the body off resto we did 19 years ago, and years of sitting have not been kind. I think I'll keep on patching it for the MOT for the foreseable future but eventually I can see it being chopped about into a race car where the body just keeps the rain out. I never want to get rid of it but to make it perfect would be too much work.

[andrewlandon67]

Every once in a while, I'll have a similar thought with my '67. Not that I'm ever going to get rid of it, but it rides horribly, the seatbelt squeezes my bladder after 15 minutes, and with no front sway bar, it doesn't handle particularly well anymore. If I had the money, I've thought several times that I'd get something Italian, or maybe French, from around the same era. Rebuild the single port for the bug, with a stock beam, and go back to drums all around. But since I finally got my 1914 going, and running halfway decently, the thoughts of Renault-Alpines, Porsche 356s, and various Alfas have sort of gone away. There's not much, in my young mind, that compares to hearing a pair of 44's, or better, IDAs sucking away not more than six feet behind your ears and feeling the front end go light as the road clears and your foot nearly coming off the accelerator pedal. I'd love it if my car would handle as well as any of the small European sports cars of its era, but remembering how far it has come, and how much time, blood, and sweat I've put into making it into the car that it is really puts it into perspective. I can only hope that in 11 years, I can still see it this way, or at least, remember what it truly means to me. Your car looks phenomenal, and I hope you keep plugging along on it so that in another 15 years, you can look at it with pride, remembering where it's been.

[alex d]

now that's a proper late looker!

[Sarge]

Thanks for a good read, Dem.  Your car looks perfect!  

My wife and I have owned our current '67 for over thirty-three years.  It's no longer "easy" to drive a bug around here anymore sad to say and even harder
after driving a new car with ABS, power steering, and A/C.  Now, add in OLD AGE to the big picture.  Don't get me wrong here, we still love our car but we
like it way better when the weather is just right and there's no heavy traffic to idle through!

[Wünderwolff]

Such a cool car!

[Eddie DVK]

Good story, the same here. Did a lot to improve to handle my beetle like a 'normal' car, and stil give it the callook stance and feel.
Had the big 165/65 front tires from the beginning and caster/camber set so I could corner 'fast'. also have the beam stiffeners treatment.
Did some tricks on the swing axle back too.

This is where I gathered some info on handling, http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=127619

I dig you on the long runs.... they start to annoy me too, that is because I removed al the soundproofing from the car but thinking on placing them back.


But about this, man

After I sold the notchback I bought a 1974 Alfa Romeo Bertone Junior 1300 Lusso.  Nice car, twin cam, dual webers, 4 disc brakes, 5 speed gearbox, lowered suspension, nice wheels.  For me it was an extremely beautiful car but it lacked horsepower, liked RPM's and the brakes were bad, not to mention the electric department  .  I've upgraded the brakes with new parts, drilled & ventilated disc brakes, ferodo pads etc etc, still not what I was looking for.  The car was also screaming for the obvious 1750 or 2000 engine.  Did the math, made a list and drew a line under this project.  Sold it.

You can make them go fast and stop fast easy...a 2000cc engine only needs a bump in the compression and a good inlet cam to make decent power...
There must have been something wrong with the brakes cause those cars come with fourwheel discs which normaly work great, easy upgrade for those are the front brembo (very light) calipers of an alfa 75... have a set for my beetle but haven t had the time to figure out how to fit them.
My mate is in to those cars, wrench a lot with him on them.

Regards Edgar

[Peter]

Dem,
Kristof has the polo steering rack, and he's really happy with it.
Some time ago I saw an add from rancho... I think they will start selling subaru transmissions.
5 speed and they should handle 300 hp stock... you ll need to convert to IRS though..
I am thinking of goint that route... I really miss a 5th gear to take longer trips.
The wining will be better too I am sure.

[Rick Meredith]

Nice looking late car.

I have owned a lot of different cars. Still I come back to my Cal-Look. In 13 months, I will have owned it 40 years yet I haven't driven it in 34 years.
There is something about them.

I like to see what Jim Ratto, Bill Schwimmer and others have done with making them all around drivers.
That's what I want for mine.

[Martin S.]

One thing I've learned is that you need to maintain a bug if you drive it. Thinking, "I just did the front end not too long ago, how could there be a problem?" meanwhile it was 10 years ago and it is worn out. Also little things like listening to chassis people with tips like, put the swing axle at full toe out for lowered cars and even further for slammed cars really helps. What made a huge difference in the stability at speed in my bug is Koni red shocks all around plus their red steering damper. Huge diff. I watch modern cars take the whoops off a bridge on my way to work at 120km and I'm right up there with them in handling. Keep the tires up to date and fresh. I bought Yokahamas a couple years ago and they helped a lot too. I let my neighbourhood VW mechanic buddy test drive my car and he said that he has driven a lot of high hp bugs before but not one that 'has it all' like my car. It keeps getting better!

[Steve67]

great decision to keep your bug and eliminate the fake early look.
It really looks fantastic now!

[karl h]

i can advocate for red konis too, they gave a fantistic ride quality to the fontana 67 (8cm narrowed beam, drop spindles, stock rear, 155/70, 165s, 5.5 BRMs)

[Jesse/DVK]

Hi Dem,

Took a look at your car a few weeks ago when I was at Steve's shop. It still is a nice car!

I really know the feeling of watching to many Petrolicious videos making me want an old Alfa or Datsun 240z instead of a beetle. They make it look like those are such good drivers cars. But the people who drive beetles and especially Cal lookers is what keeps me drawing back to a beetle.

[Martin S.]

My friend, when I was in my 20s, had one of the first thousand or so 240z's produced ever. Neat car! I had the same white 68 Beetle at the time, but with the old Michelin XZX tires (him too). We decided to compare the cars in cornering since he figured his fancy sports car was so much better than my economy car. In a mall parking lot we brought a long rope and a spray can of paint. One of us stood in one spot and the other at the end of the rope walked in a circle, spraying paint to make a skid pad circle. We then drove around the circle as fast as we could. And guess what? Both cars did equally well! I was pleased. Then the cop showed up and asked us, "What the hell are you doing?!!" and kicked us off the parking lot. 

[mg]

I like it, sounds like you are more into sports purpose touring.

Seats, get some nice chairs with lateral support.
You can improve everything on the car and most of it will be dulled down if you still use stock low back seats.
A DKP member once said low backs are like driving fast while sitting on a beach ball.
If the driver is not connected to the car then the feedback from the car will never reach the driver.

For aggressive cornering you need to be held in the seat, so a 5 or 6 point belt is necessary.
If you are not held in the seat you will be wasting energy and awareness gripping the wheel just to stay in your seat.

I'd play with the brake bias too unless you have it perfect now.
Threshold brake it and if the fronts lock up dial in a little rear brake bias.
When I went 4 wheel disc brake stopping the VW became much more fun.

Imho the advantage of a light car is in cornering and stopping.
Stopping and turning are my favorite driving challenges.
Accelerating is easy anyone can bang gears in a straight line.
Drag racing is so easy John Force taught his daughters how to do it. lol

Learn to drive like a performance circuit driver,  heal toe downshift and rotate the car in the corner with confidence.
Try new techniques like left foot braking, that was my car control breakthrough.

[Martin S.]

True. I have Honda seats and they made the car more fun to drive and sliding thru bumpy corners is way more fun. The rear disk brakes helped my confidence in going faster immensely.
If you think about it, the rears not only have to stop the rolling against the road surface, they also have to slow down the inertia of your wheels PLUS the axles, rear diff, and a big engine with a large counter weighted crank and heavy duty rods, larger pistons, etc. The fronts only have the wheels to stop.

[Neil Davies]

I've not got discs on mine at all, but I have just put front brake cylinders in all four corners of my car to alter the bias a little. In theory it should be less prone to locking up those silly 145's!

[volkskris]

Dem,
Kristof has the polo steering rack, and he's really happy with it.

As Peter said I have rack&pinion steering on my beetle. It costs a lot of money, but makes a huge difference. No play at all, very good steering feel and it steers lighter as well.

[broen messiaen]

Dem,
Kristof has the polo steering rack, and he's really happy with it.

As Peter said I have rack&pinion steering on my beetle. It costs a lot of money, but makes a huge difference. No play at all, very good steering feel and it steers lighter as well.

I can confirm this to. I have disk brakes, adjustable shocks, ... but the best modification I made was the polo steering rack.
You don't have to work this hard to turn the car now.

About the price, don't think it's that expensive (if you don't buy a complete kit). Paid 50€ for a rack with steering arms, a mounting kit from alex, some uniball joints and some fabrication work. Maybe it was 300€ in total, whats the price for a good original steering box?

@wunderwolf: cool looking car you have!

[wolfswest]

Everybody,

thx for the kind replies and all the useful tips to make a better driver out of a beetle.  It shows that The Lounge is still alive!

I also have red koni's in the rear + koni steering damper.  I had them from the start so I can't compare though.

The polo steering rack sounds interesting!  Broen, or Kris I will contact you guys for more information.

Not much time right now but I will post a decent reply within a few days.

[Donny B.]

34  years ago this month I purchased my '66 from the original owner.  At this time it has over 450K miles on it.  I've put over half those miles on it myself.  It was my daily driver for years (don't drive it that much today).  In 1987 I drove to Sacramento participating in the California Caravan with over 400 cars.  It is the best car I have ever owned ; such fun...!

[Brandon Sinclair]

Great read and great looking car Dem.

I have had mine 25 and going on 26 years now.

The biggest improvements for daily driving for me was Koni red shocks, and a close second was using a name brand tire and making sure the tire was new or newer since there is a date on them and when they get older they do not perform as well.  Same as the suggestions Martin S made above.

I went with a rebuilt OEM VW steering box instead of the tight TRW ones I tried in the past and have not looked back.

I have always wanted to upgrade the lowback seats to something that provided support, but have been afraid to take away from the look.  There are so many great upholstery shops out there that maybe one day I will have something custom done to the stock steat for a best of both worlds kind of thing.

[Neil Davies]

I have always wanted to upgrade the lowback seats to something that provided support, but have been afraid to take away from the look.  There are so many great upholstery shops out there that maybe one day I will have something custom done to the stock steat for a best of both worlds kind of thing.

I've thought about this too, although I've got Porsche 912 lowbacks in my car, which are like a big comfy sofa! For the stock seat it needs less bounce, so maybe webbing as well as springs, or even instead of some of the springs? Then the padding needs to be built up more at the sides to hold you in, and the ultimate change would be to add headrests to the lowback seat by welding some tubes into the frame so a headrest from something else can be used.

[nicolas]

hey, just read through your post and it is exactly what i am at as well. i have had less 'exotic' cars the last few years, but i did have a 318i E30 station. great car, very pleased, but in the end not my type3… i was thinking about other brands and more sporty small cars, but what i really need is to finish and/or drive the beetle that is in the garage.

so after EBI that is also what i am at. get out and drive. btw the type3 never drove better. yes it does still need some massaging here and there, but with the 'regular' seatbelts (now front and rear), the csp exhaust, yes the grippier tires and the leaking brakes finally fixed (it took the replacement of nearly everything) this car has become better then it ever was. i am not driving it daily, but whenever i want to take it out, i can. and that is important. the more you drive your car the better it becomes if you filter out all the little euhh… bugs.

so enjoy your cars. don't get rid of them, they are too nice

Dem your car always looked great, but the way you made it now is even better. simply stunning car. 

[Jim Ratto]

For all the stagnation in the hobby and only permitting "period correct" looks and parts and the rest of it, to be allowed in the limelight, I am pleased to see that others realize there is another way. A well rounded out VW makes a fantastic and possibly terrifying driver. Horsepower, tires, proper shocks and brakes, all thought out and refined over years of ownership, in my opinion, are the way to go. I resisted doing anything on my car, other than these ridiculous "ragged edge" motors that weren't quite race motors, but they certainly weren't good street motors either. Sure looked good on the catalog pages and when daydreaming about how no power until 5500rpm would be the answer to all life's questions. I look down on my time tiptoeing around "insanity" of it all, when all along it al could have been so much better and easier. At least it was a learning experience. I guess some of us just force ourselves against the coarse grinding wheel, bent on making it an uphill climb, toiling away, in denial, chasing the impossible.