100HP 1600cc Engine builders help?

[Doogster]

Being do a little bit of research before I dive in with an engine built, the plan is a hot 1600 to power a buggy.

Specs would be....
Stage 1 Heads from GAC in the UK.
Counterweighted Crank.
Stock Rods balanced?
Standard pistons balanced?
Lightened flywheel with 8 dowel.
Engle 110 cam
twin 40's
full flow oiling.



SO hoping for 100hp and 6000 RPM with that.  Is that possible?

[Fastbrit]

Speak to GAC - they are the experts at getting power from small engines (Formula Vee etc). It will be all down to head work – and the right cam and exhaust.

[Doogster]

Spoke with Alan at GAC today, really really helpful, I am away to strip my heads of and send them down to him and take it from there.

[2085 72 gtbug]

Kieth is spot on
My old spec engine really gac heads which Alan did plus he did the match porting on the manifolds to
Car ran an engle 100
Plus a really good exhaust  (turbo Thomas)
Oh and good ignition
Did 98bhp on the rollers
Chris

[Doogster]

Kieth is spot on
My old spec engine really gac heads which Alan did plus he did the match porting on the manifolds to
Car ran an engle 100
Plus a really good exhaust  (turbo Thomas)
Oh and good ignition
Did 98bhp on the rollers
Chris

That's good to know,

DO you know what the whole spec was of the engine mate?

[2085 72 gtbug]

As 41 case drilled tapped full flow
Genuine vw crank
Genuine vw flywheel
Gene Berg steel pulley
Kennedy stage 1
5.4 chromo rods
All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath
Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up
Gac heads autolinear vw
Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds
Cb ignition
Exhaust as mentioned above
1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount

[Martin S.]

Wow! lots of people build big motors and end up with 120hp. 

[brian e]

As 41 case drilled tapped full flow
Genuine vw crank
Genuine vw flywheel
Gene Berg steel pulley
Kennedy stage 1
5.4 chromo rods
All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath
Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up
Gac heads autolinear vw
Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds
Cb ignition
Exhaust as mentioned above
1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount

What cam and compression? 

[Doogster]

Wow! lots of people build big motors and end up with 120hp. 

One of the reasons I want to do this hot 1600, see what can reliably be done. (and its a light car)

Speaking with Alan at GAC he said 100bhp and 100ib torque.

[Doogster]

As 41 case drilled tapped full flow
Genuine vw crank
Genuine vw flywheel
Gene Berg steel pulley
Kennedy stage 1
5.4 chromo rods
All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath
Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up
Gac heads autolinear vw
Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds
Cb ignition
Exhaust as mentioned above
1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount

What cam and compression? 

Same question. I was thinking 9:1?

[kever65]

(1600ccx5500rpmx10.5)/910000=101.5 hp

Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9505 met Tapatalk

[2085 72 gtbug]

Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun....
Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉

[Doogster]

Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun....
Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉

Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor.

[2085 72 gtbug]

Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun....
Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉

Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor.
[/quote
Keep at it fella
Think as kieth said choices are key and my motor revved so well so balancing also paramount...
With my new build I've gone down that route and had all that done again by a well respected race shop in Cheshire
Front pulley crank flywheel plate rods pistons all Dymo balanced...
Look forward to seeing your results
Chris

[Doogster]

Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun....
Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉

Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor.
[/quote
Keep at it fella
Think as kieth said choices are key and my motor revved so well so balancing also paramount...
With my new build I've gone down that route and had all that done again by a well respected race shop in Cheshire
Front pulley crank flywheel plate rods pistons all Dymo balanced...
Look forward to seeing your results
Chris

Cheers Chris, do you have a built thread going on yours?

[Eddie DVK]

I liked the engine from Johannes from JPM, I think he made a 1600 engine out of a 1200 crank 64mm and 90.5mm pistons making it 1647cc.
With very impressive HP an RPM figures. Always thinking in my head to built one of those.

Hope you will post progress here on the lounge.

[Doogster]

I liked the engine from Johannes from JPM, I think he made a 1600 engine out of a 1200 crank 64mm and 90.5mm pistons making it 1647cc.
With very impressive HP an RPM figures. Always thinking in my head to built one of those.

Hope you will post progress here on the lounge.

Sounds a really interesting engine!  Would like to see the build up of it!

I have just go of the phone to stateside tuning here in the UK, they are going to supply me a counterweighted crank and flywheel, I am going to send them down my conrods as they do an exchange service on these for some balanced ones. (I will sort of the pistons myself with a dremel)

Whilst speaking with James @ Stateside, he asked what I am trying to get out the engine so I explained it and he said I am maybe better going with a VZ30 Cam. (downside being I may only get 10000 Miles out my valve train)

[Eddie DVK]

I think it is on here
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,3257.30.html  2nd page somewhere in the middle. Ok not a 64x90.5 engine... thought I came across that one too.

Hello!

After following this very interesting thread I have decided to build a "mouse motor" with almost only original parts and by using some simple math and sience.

Engine spec:

Case: original AS41
Crank:German stock
Rods:German stock
Pistons:JE 86mm 24mm comp hight
Cylinders:Stock 85,5mm honed to 86mm
Heads:043 40x32mm valves
Compression:12,0:1
Rockers:Jpm two stud 1,5:1 ratio
P-rods:Manton 3/8" cromoly
Cam:Fk45in/Fk44 ex
Cam gears:Magnum
Oilpump:26mm
Deepsump:1,5lit
Flywheel:180mm stock lightend
Clutch disc:cush lock
Pressure plate:Kennedy
Header:Custom made 1 5/8" tuned length
Manifolds:Custom made tuned length(second order)
Carbs:IDA 48

The most expensive parts in this concept is the JE pistons, but I feel they are nessecery if the calculated power should be optained.

All the parts will of course be inspected and modified(linebored,shuffle pinned,balanced,fullflowed etc..........) to take the higher output.

Heads:

The heads will recive a little welding in some areas and ported to achive as high flow as possible in the limitations of the calculated port size.

Cam:

I will use a cam with split duration, fk45 intake and fk44 exhaust.The less ex duration will give a superior midrange without loosing top end, if the ex port flows enough, a good choise when using a "Hi-Po" engine on
the street.

I have decided to use a 40mm intake valve because of the 86mm bore, and the valve will not be moved to the center of the cylinder,a bigger valve will be to much shrouded from the cylinder wall.

Calculation:

The formula I will use to see how much rpm the 40mm valve will be good for is:

RPM=3300000xPort dia xPort dia/BorexBore xStroke

This formula is based on a mean port velocity at 110m/s or(360ft/s), and the Port dia is the smallest area in the port.

As this engine is going to be used as a street engine the smallest port size I will use is 0,88 x valve dia(0,88x40=35,2mm)

RPM calculation:3300000x35,2x35,2/86x86x69=8012rpm

The teoretical rpm where peak power will be is 8012 rpm.

Now we have the RPM,diplacement but not the Bmep, a realistic Bmep is between 12-13 bar(171-185psi), so I choose 12,5bar Bmep.With this information we can calculate the POWER of the "mouse motor".

Formula:

P=Displ x rpm x Bmep/910

POWER=1,603 x 8012 x 12,5 / 910 = 176,4hp

This is the power that could be expected from the "mouse motor" if everything is properly done.


With properly done I mean everything like heads,compression,cam timing,exhaust length,intake length,friction etc.....................  .

I will start on this project in the next week but as I run a company it will take some time to finish it, probably in mars 2008.

During that time I will keep you updated with pictures and info as the project continous.

When the "mouse motor" is done there will be som serious dyno testing and tuning, hopefully we will see the numbers that i come up with in the calculations above.

To me,this is what I belive is "Thinking outside the box" and "The next level".


With Best Regards

Johannes Persson
JP Motorsport
Sweden

[2085 72 gtbug]

My engineering/balancing guy polished/balanced  all my crank rods pistons for £185....
You could do with getting all your rotating parts balanced together and your rods weighed/balanced to...
Use Jim to get your pistons done might seem a cost but worthwhile
Chris

[Doogster]

My engineering/balancing guy polished/balanced  all my crank rods pistons for £185....
You could do with getting all your rotating parts balanced together and your rods weighed/balanced to...
Use Jim to get your pistons done might seem a cost but worthwhile
Chris

I shall do,  its all money well spent though, I don't think any point in half assing on costs when trying to build a quick little engine.

I want something that will last a wee while before it goes bang.

[Joel Mohr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJdyA9G6N8
120 at the crank 72 x 85.5 35 x 32 040 heads with 6mm stems and beehive springs
WEB 122, 44 idfs
 3 step header

[Martin S.]

Looks like the perfect car to go with it.
What rpm was that?

[Doogster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJdyA9G6N8
120 at the carnk 72 x 85.5 35 x 32 040 heads with 6mm stems and beehive springs
WEB 122 44 idfs
 3 step header

Crikey that's impressive! Same questions as Martin?

[Joel Mohr]

Peak HP was at 6800 The Web 122 is .506 x 288. The heads just had a clean up P&P by Clyde Berg....I was hoping for 100, overshot it a bit...damn...car is 1600# Berg 5 speed, ran 14.60 spinning all the way through 1st gear...(no slicks)

[Martin S.]

That's impressive! What was the torque?

[Joel Mohr]

97 at the wheels.... the heads were hemi cut and 9 to 1 on 91 octane

[Doogster]

97 at the wheels.... the heads were hemi cut and 9 to 1 on 91 octane

Just watched that video again dude, that an impressive little motor!!!!

[Martin S.]

The most interesting part of this is the chamber. The project here is 12:1. That motor was semi hemi 9:1. That's a big difference in design.
And I'm trying to picture what the SH would look like at 9:1. Kissing at the edges? Smaller dip in the middle?
When I ran a Berg type motor it was 7:1 lol.

[Joel Mohr]

The Hemi cut in the chamber was cut to the bore diameter, 52cc's and 0 deck..

[Doogster]

The Hemi cut in the chamber was cut to the bore diameter, 52cc's and 0 deck..

Who did the Hemi cut for you Joel?