Oil filter question

[baz]

If a oil filter has an anti drain back valve will the oil flow the wrong way?  I guess it shouldn't if the valve is present,  I've a vw 'expert' telling me it'll flow either way.

Can anyone clarify this please?

[Richierich56]

Surely the whole point of an anti drain back valve is it won't....? I'm interested in the correct answer to this also. If the filter mounts vertically with the base up, it shouldn't matter either way should it?

[baz]

My thinking is the oil pressure will close the valve no matter which way up the filter is. I'm not sure though hopefully someone knows for sure.

Filter is a fram hp

[baz]

Anyone?  Kinda important I get this clarified

[Neil Davies]

I wouldn't like to run one upside down for the mess factor when you change it! Plenty of moderns have the filters screwed into the block on the side tho.

[richie]

I think you are referring to pressure relief valve, when oil is cold and thick it opens and allows oil to bypass filter screen so it doesn't burst.

If it was a anti drain back feature then it would open with pressure not close it like you mention

My thinking is the oil pressure will close the valve no matter which way up the filter is. I'm not sure though hopefully someone knows for sure.

Filter is a fram hp

[baz]

Hi richie, no I mean the adbv in the filter. If you plumb the filter backwards with oil in through the centre then the pressure inside the filter will push the valve closed against the actual inlet holes.

[richie]

Why would you plumb it backwards? that makes no sense to me

[baz]

I didn't. Someone else did and told me it's fine. At the time I thought no more of it. Now I've read into adbv in filters I'm unsure how it would flow backwards.

Basically will oil flow through a filter backwards?

[Martin S.]

I see your concern. I don't know about the valve, but the pleats are designed to have the dirt on the outside where there is more room for it collect. It would still catch dirt the other way, but not be ideal.

[baz]

I see your concern. I don't know about the valve, but the pleats are designed to have the dirt on the outside where there is more room for it collect. It would still catch dirt the other way, but not be ideal.

If it would flow backwards the dirt on the filter element gets sent back through the motor too. 
 
Can't see how it can flow backwards though unless the valves aren't worth shit. 

[Martin S.]

I didn't know there were the two valves in an oil filter. Thanks for making me google it! Pretty clear in this illustration:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2433599

[Richierich56]

I see your concern. I don't know about the valve, but the pleats are designed to have the dirt on the outside where there is more room for it collect. It would still catch dirt the other way, but not be ideal.

If it would flow backwards the dirt on the filter element gets sent back through the motor too. 
 
Can't see how it can flow backwards though unless the valves aren't worth shit. 

Do you mean he plumbed the line out of the case to the out on the filter and vice versa?

[baz]

Yep oil was trying to flow the wrong way as the lines were attached incorrectly. 

[baz]

I didn't know there were the two valves in an oil filter. Thanks for making me google it! Pretty clear in this illustration:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2433599

Me neither til the other day. That pic shows the flow should only be able to go one way.

[richie]

I didn't. Someone else did and told me it's fine. At the time I thought no more of it. Now I've read into adbv in filters I'm unsure how it would flow backwards.

Basically will oil flow through a filter backwards?

Yes it will flow backwards, I have seen it done with a HP1 by mistake and it had huge pressure loss but still had some pressure, that anti drain back is just a thin material flap, it isn't designed to hold pressure, it just seals up when no pressure comes from other side and holds oil in the filter, but put pressure on it and it will not seal
That's my opinion anyway

[Richierich56]

I see your concern. I don't know about the valve, but the pleats are designed to have the dirt on the outside where there is more room for it collect. It would still catch dirt the other way, but not be ideal.

If it would flow backwards the dirt on the filter element gets sent back through the motor too. 
 
Can't see how it can flow backwards though unless the valves aren't worth shit. 

Do you mean he plumbed the line out of the case to the out on the filter and vice versa?

Wouldnt that normally just result in a blown filter?

[baz]

I see your concern. I don't know about the valve, but the pleats are designed to have the dirt on the outside where there is more room for it collect. It would still catch dirt the other way, but not be ideal.

If it would flow backwards the dirt on the filter element gets sent back through the motor too. 
 
Can't see how it can flow backwards though unless the valves aren't worth shit. 

Do you mean he plumbed the line out of the case to the out on the filter and vice versa?

Wouldnt that normally just result in a blown filter?

I guess with cold oil it would, hot oil maybe not?

[baz]

I didn't. Someone else did and told me it's fine. At the time I thought no more of it. Now I've read into adbv in filters I'm unsure how it would flow backwards.

Basically will oil flow through a filter backwards?

Yes it will flow backwards, I have seen it done with a HP1 by mistake and it had huge pressure loss but still had some pressure, that anti drain back is just a thin material flap, it isn't designed to hold pressure, it just seals up when no pressure comes from other side and holds oil in the filter, but put pressure on it and it will not seal
That's my opinion anyway

Thanks Richie, that makes some sense as the motor did run while plumbed like this. I guess the debris from the filter getting pumped back out along with the reduced pressure isn't a good thing though.

[Martin S.]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

[baz]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

Not quite so easy as the debris from the filter killed the motor

[Richierich56]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

Not quite so easy as the debris from the filter killed the motor

Killed it??

[baz]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

Not quite so easy as the debris from the filter killed the motor

Killed it??

Killed it dead. Sloppy dirty build,  oil and filter most likely not changed after cam burn ( if it was changed the guy would have known to call off the dyno session as the oil would have been fully of debris) the backwards routing of the oil lines during the dyno session then spat a filter full of debris right back into the engine and killed it.

[Richierich56]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

Not quite so easy as the debris from the filter killed the motor

Killed it??

Killed it dead. Sloppy dirty build,  oil and filter most likely not changed after cam burn ( if it was changed the guy would have known to call off the dyno session as the oil would have been fully of debris) the backwards routing of the oil lines during the dyno session then spat a filter full of debris right back into the engine and killed it.

Man, that's rough - I'm sorry to hear it. You go back to the builder?

[baz]

Good point about the seal's intended use. It's just there to stop the dirt and oil (on the outside of the pleats) from glopping back out the holes. That way when you handle a dirty filter, only the inside hole drains. Just switch your hoses and problem solved.

Not quite so easy as the debris from the filter killed the motor

Killed it??

Killed it dead. Sloppy dirty build,  oil and filter most likely not changed after cam burn ( if it was changed the guy would have known to call off the dyno session as the oil would have been fully of debris) the backwards routing of the oil lines during the dyno session then spat a filter full of debris right back into the engine and killed it.

Man, that's rough - I'm sorry to hear it. You go back to the builder?

It's old news,  both the builder and the killer know what I think of them. The killer almost got away with it,  I'm glad now the truth is clear.

I'm gonna camp next to him at action and bring a megaphone so everyone knows what he is

[richie]

So if I am reading this correct, engine was run, cam burn done, then at some point oil lines were switched round during dyno session?  also if its a regular filter how would anyone know to call off dyno session if they changed it? I think I understand what you are getting at but would like to be clear on it

[baz]

So if I am reading this correct, engine was run, cam burn done, then at some point oil lines were switched round during dyno session?  also if its a regular filter how would anyone know to call off dyno session if they changed it? I think I understand what you are getting at but would like to be clear on it

Cam burn was supposed to happen night before dyno session. Now with a fresh built engine I'd expect the oil to be dropped and inspected,  the filter to be cut open to see what's inside.

At the dyno session the filter head was pissing oil, something that also would have been spotted and fixed beforehand if there was a cam burn done.  


Rob decides after about an hour to remove the oil lines to try stop the leak, he then proceeded to put them back on the wrong way around. 10 minutes later we had a dead engine. I looked at the oil lines and spotted they were wrong, I was assured by Rob this wasn't a problem.

Next day I stripped the motor with him, I asked about the filter but it had conveniently disappeared.  Rob was focusing on rod bearings,  the reason the rod bearing was too small for the cap was because rob squeezed it between his thumb and forefinger to make it smaller,  taking attention away from what he done.

I was far too trusting of people which is my own fault but I had spent so much money and had such little knowledge of how it all works that I had no choice but to leave it to 'professionals'
Maybe I rushed Rob and he'd no time for cam burn, 6 months he had my car probably should have given him another few months so he'd get it done right. But he'd already long since lost interest in working on my car as he spent my money on a new motor for his truck so couldn't afford to spend any time on mine as he needed paying jobs.


When Jim at stateside saw the crank he said it was a dirty engine as every journal was damaged, well pumping a filter full of shit through the engine would do that I guess.

Without the hose mix up the filter should have done it's job and saved the engine.

[Martin S.]

I don't see what happened. Did the engine seize? Dirt won't cause it to seize. It's not good to have dirt, but that won't stop an engine.

[leec]

But the oil lines were round the wrong way, that does harm bearings

[baz]

I don't see what happened. Did the engine seize? Dirt won't cause it to seize. It's not good to have dirt, but that won't stop an engine.

No 2 rod bearing locked up. Silverline rod bearings measured by me afterwards were tight for sure. As richie mentioned above there would be massive pressure loss with the filter running backwards maybe that's why no 2 let go as it's first to starve.

Every journal was damaged, a rod bearing issue wouldn't hurt the mains