who runs an extra cooler?

[nicolas]

not a poll, but who runs one?
i see a lot of engines in magazines and they have a extra oilfilter, but no cooler.
i have one on the fastback with a fan. but maybe there is a different way to keep your engine cool. what temperature is healty for a car on the highway or on longer trips? it probally has been covered before...

[Donny B.]

I run an extra cooler with a fan.  I live in Phoenix where this summer it was over 110F (43C) at least 30 days.  In the past I was know for driving long distances and my cruise speed was 75MPH.  That said I felt it would be wise to add the external cooler.  It has worked well for me.

[BeetleBug]

Why run a extra cooler? I have problems getting my oil warm enough with the original one? And yes, we do have hot summer days up here. Not very often but it happens. Not even driving in the city, stopping at red lights, slow driving etc will get my temp to a level I`m satisfied with.

Best rgs
BB

[Diederick/DVK]

mmh, most of us here in europe deal with lower temps than say in california or arizona. but a higher humidity, wouldn't that play a role?
also, it may be interesting to know whether those people that do run an additional oil cooler run a doghouse cooler or not. perhaps an old 912 cooler? 

[nicolas]

mmh, most of us here in europe deal with lower temps than say in california or arizona. but a higher humidity, wouldn't that play a role?
also, it may be interesting to know whether those people that do run an additional oil cooler run a doghouse cooler or not. perhaps an old 912 cooler? 

mine is a type3 setup for now with the original cooler still in place. but i plan to go for a type1 setup in the car if i come around building a new motor. so i wonder about those engines and cooling.

[Felix/DFL]

Hi Nicolas,

an aceptable oiltemperature on an Autbahn trip would be around 90-110°C for me. If I cruise the oiltemp. never goes over 95°C with more horespower in contact about 115°C. If the oiltemp goes over 120-125°C I would overthink my cooler concept.
When the oil gets over 130°C it ages rapidly and "splits" and you got way more leakage and oil pressure problems

I even work with an external oil-cooler on my notch. It`s yust a small racimex about 20cm x 30cm with an airpanel, so no fan. The orig. typ-3 cooler is even installed and the racimex is switched on via an pipe-thermostat if needed.

I would go for an external cooler for every 1776 up. A 1600ccm typ-3 engine from a good friend which I assembled doesn`t needs an external cooler but it is a very mild motor.

By the way, very nice Fastback you have made there it doesn`t looks like a "Traurige Lösung"   

Best greetings,
Felix

[Rasser]

I drive a lot on the highway, and due to my 3.88x0.89 gearbox i tend to drive pretty fast. I normally drive around 4000-4500 on the highway (although have tested 2 hours nonstop at 4800 - no problems, oiltemp at 105-110).

This is with a mercedes long flat oilcooler, and a "std." T4 1.8L converted with T1 cooling.

With my old 1914 I started outwith just the std. doghouse cooler, but highway speeds above 120-130 would bring the oiltemps above 110-115 (115 is my limit). It would require min. 20 min highway driving at 120-130 to obtain this temp.
But then I added a mercedes oilcooler to my setup (only ran external filter before) - What a change!  I could now run the same highway speed with only 90-100 in oiltemp.... i couldn´t believe it, it worked so well I should have just fitted the oilcooler long ago.

I have never experienced that city driving could bring oiltemps to high levels.... the real killer is consistent fast highway driving!!!

I always mount my cooler so the "windspeed" gets pushed directly through the cooler. I have mounted my cooler underneath the gearbox attached to the "horns", it works perfectly and o clearance problems to due the "ass up - callook apperance", and no one has ever noticed it!

Highway videoclip-
<a href="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6468818324232530472" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6468818324232530472</a>
(after overtaking him, the porsche stayed right behind us for more than 50km at 150+ km/h,  then he pulled up beside us and gave us "thumbs up" before he floored it and disappeared - great fun ;-)

MOUNT EXTERNAL OILCOOLER NOW!!!

[ESH]

I run a small* Mocal cooler on mine and have been very happy with the results. 



*

[Lee.C]

As most of you would have seen I run a Race Trim oil cooler in the back of my Manx  as well as a HP1 filter and my thinking is as long as you've got a filter AND a cooler 1 you have ALOT more oil capasity and 2 you pretty much NEVER have to worry about your oil temp.

This my sound a bit nieve BUT it works for me I have never put a temp guage on mine (the empi is just for show ) but in NEVER gets TOO hot and trust me guys I drive mine HARD - just ask JHU or 67indeed 

Just my 2 cents 

[Zach Gomulka]

My opinion... If you build it right, you should have no need for one unless you live in a very hot climate, or have a type 3. I needed a dual fan pack Setrab along with a type 4 cooler to keep the 1776 in my fastback cool, and I lived in Phoenix!! A upright Beetle engine is much easier to keep cool, and it has less weight to push around.

[nicolas]

yeah it probally has to do with the cooling aspects of the type3 that my car still needs a cooler. i also run a higher CR, we measured 9,5 with a CR-meter... i knew it had more CR but i guess that was a bit more than i expected. anyway the type3 sucks in hot air from the enginecompartment all the time and that is bad. it gets real hot inside and the cooling effect of the fuel and fresh air is far less as in a type1. who has some sort of freshairbox in there type3's? sigh, no i hijack my own treads... 

[Tobi/DFL]

Hi Nicolas,
I have a 96plate cooler with fan mounted above my tranny. Temperartures on a warm summer day don´t go higher than 95°C when cruising with an average 100 km/h without the fan turned on (2176cc engine, 3,88:1 R/P, 1,14 4th gear). When dragracing the temps sometimes reach higher levels but as soon as the fan is switched on the temps are getting lower very fast, so for me that´s the best compromise in getting comfortable tmeps pretty fast with the possibility to cool it down very fast if it´s required.
Bye,

Tobi

[LuftsickTero]

And the next question; where have you guys installed your oil temp sending unit?

[nicolas]

mine is in the extra oilfilter. so that i get the outcoming hot oil temp reading. that way i have a small margin if things tend to get hot.

[Bewitched666]

When upgrading an engine i would always recommend an external oilcooler.
Eventhough in holland the weather is cooler,summers are sometimes killers but its no overkill running an external cooler.

But that my opinion

[Grelland]

I see some of you claim that after adding an extra cooler, or switching on the fan, the oil temp goes down, and you are happy, but you never addressed the reason why the oil became too hot... Isn't it so that locally inside your engine, the oil is still 120 or 130 degC, but it is cooled down in the cooler before returning to the sump, but you may still have locations (heads etc) where the oil temp is too high, and the oil is not doing its job...  

I have built a 1835cc engine with Porsche 911 fan housing, and I am really concerned that this will not be the optimum setup compared to the stock upright T1 fan shroud, so I am also considering adding an external cooler (especially since I have no doghouse). Therefore I am trying to make sure the engine does not generate that much heat in the first place (heat is wasted energy in an engine...). I will also add a few temp gauges in order to monitor the oil and head temps.

So what is my point?  Well I guess the point is that if there is a way to generate more power to the wheels without increasing the temp, that should be a lot better for the engine, and shouldn't the focus of the engine builder be on that, rather than on fixing the secondary effect (increased oil temp)?

Roy

[Donny B.]

I forgot to mention that I also run an oil thermostat so the oil only goes through the external oil cooler when the temps reach about 180F.

[Rasser]

And the next question; where have you guys installed your oil temp sending unit?

Type 1:  In the oil channel right before the oil is sucked into the pump.
So the oil temperature is as correct as possible. Some measure the temp at the oil pressure switch, that is just wrong because when the oil reaches the pressure switch it has allready been cooled down through the filter and external cooler (assuming you run fullflow).

[Rasser]

I forgot to mention that I also run an oil thermostat so the oil only goes through the external oil cooler when the temps reach about 180F.

ditto.   plus you should also run the original flaps+thermostat inside the fan shroud.

[Donny B.]

plus you should also run the original flaps+thermostat inside the fan shroud.

Which I do.

[Jim Ratto]

I run a Setrab with fans up next to LH of trans. The fans come on at ~180F? Rabbit rad fan switch in case. I also have doghouse cooler and Vw shroud, but I took all the shutters and baffles for thermostat out. My car runs cooler without all that. Ditching the small header and getting carbs jetted made a huge difference.
One thing I think you guys might want to think about is valve springs. Dual springs not only create more friction through increased pressure, but also inner and outers rubbing. My old stroker motor in the 90's picked up a good deal of oil temp just changing from single to dual springs.

[Felix/DFL]

anyway the type3 sucks in hot air from the enginecompartment all the time and that is bad. it gets real hot inside and the cooling effect of the fuel and fresh air is far less as in a type1. who has some sort of freshairbox in there type3's? sigh, no i hijack my own treads... 

Here is my solution:

It is even important to close the airoutlets to the heatexchangers if J-Tube`s are installed. Exhaustwrap is reducing the temp. in the engine compartment very good and I opened the sides with oval "pots" to let some fresh air in. My temp. sender is installed in the sump.

Greetz

[too old for this]

And the next question; where have you guys installed your oil temp sending unit?

Tapped into the top of the filter head,I get readings of about 190,rising to 210,If i,m getting" on it" a bit

[nicolas]

anyway the type3 sucks in hot air from the enginecompartment all the time and that is bad. it gets real hot inside and the cooling effect of the fuel and fresh air is far less as in a type1. who has some sort of freshairbox in there type3's? sigh, no i hijack my own treads... 

Here is my solution:

It is even important to close the airoutlets to the heatexchangers if J-Tube`s are installed. Exhaustwrap is reducing the temp. in the engine compartment very good and I opened the sides with oval "pots" to let some fresh air in. My temp. sender is installed in the sump.

Greetz

yes very nice i have seen that setup at DDD i believe. quite nice, but i was thinking about a solution for the squareback... something along the lines of a airbox like the original one or something of a porsche or so.
but i also think i have to keep the original plate even if i go for a type1 setup in the car. just to keep the hot air from rising.
and yes i also run the tape around the outlet and it does keep a lot of hot air out, but i keeps the engine hot longer. nethertheless it was a good investment and temperature has dopped since i have it.

thanks

[richie]

I have one,when the car was N/A with 044 heads I never found i needed one,when i switched to comp elims and a slight increase in compression i added a small one without fan and was fine,now with the turbo heating the oil so much more i have a 19row with a small fan from a motorcycle,works fine,cheers richie,uk