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Author Topic: Oil spraying from unexpected places  (Read 912 times)
StewRat
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« on: November 21, 2017, 23:10:51 PM »

Had a chance for a very quick trip to the local strip on Sunday thinking if I could get a couple of runs in it would help me know what to work on over the winter.
(This only the second time out for the StewRat)

Couple of runs in the practice area getting used to shifting again, when I see white smoke behind me.
Circle back to the trailer and there is oil spraying out under pressure - apparently from the exhaust manifold where it bolts to #3.

Unfortunately, by the time I cleaned up I had to pack up to leave and circumstances mean I've had to leave the car on the trailer with no further investigation - it will be the weekend at earliest before I can even look properly.

I can't easily imagine why there should be oil there at all, let alone under pressure so it's weighing heavily on my mind what I might find when I dig into it. Feels serious.

Anyone seen this before?

Thanks

Stewart


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Erlend / bug66
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 08:54:47 AM »

I think there might be a straight line from the oil cooler mounting flange to the exhaust stud on 3. Could it be shooting from the oil cooler?
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StewRat
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 09:24:18 AM »

It would have made more sense if I typed my question when fully awake - it is cylinder #4 exhaust flange the oil *seemed* to be coming from! Idiot.

It did appear to be spraying out vertically from round the flange - as if oil was being pumped out through the port but hard to be sure as I couldn't leave it running for any time there to watch it.

Come to think of it though - if in any way large amounts of oil were being pumped out the port, they would go down the exhaust and not spray out there. So it may well be coming from somewhere else in the vicinity.


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The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
Erlend / bug66
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 09:58:22 AM »

Some oil leaks are just crap to find..

Clean, and try again. Remove exhaust and see..

Does it run on all 4? You can get some oil through the valve guide, but not under pressure.
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Dougy Dee
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« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 13:29:30 PM »

Full flow oil line or fitting popped?
Cooler seal?
Lots of possibilities.
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« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 20:18:42 PM »

Over filled and coming out of the dipstick ? Tends to get flicked up on that side by the pulley

Did you have a spring on the dipstick keeping it tight or the tube? This is a bitch to find as the stick can drop back down when not under pressure
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leec
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« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 20:26:03 PM »

Deep sump? What size? If so how far up the dipstick did you fill oil up to?
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Neil Davies
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« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 20:42:16 PM »

Stewart, I can't help you on this, but I'm interested in what you find. I've got a very similar problem...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 21:04:42 PM »

A lot of guys vent the leading edge of the valve-covers for breather hoses, and on LH side of motor, that's near number 3
Are your valve covers vented here? Adjacent to exhaust pipe?
If the fitting is loose or the hose is loose (or damaged), I'm pretty sure at high RPM you'd get signs of "spraying" oil from a bad enough leak from here.
Just a place to check if your covers are vented like mentioned above.

VW oil leaks can drive a man to insanity.
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 21:06:16 PM »

A lot of guys vent the leading edge of the valve-covers for breather hoses, and on LH side of motor, that's near number 3
Are your valve covers vented here? Adjacent to exhaust pipe?
If the fitting is loose or the hose is loose (or damaged), I'm pretty sure at high RPM you'd get signs of "spraying" oil from a bad enough leak from here.
Just a place to check if your covers are vented like mentioned above.

VW oil leaks can drive a man to insanity.

shit, I see you later said it's cylinder number 4. Maybe your breather line is on the back side of cover?
In any case good luck.

Jim
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Martin S.
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« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 22:03:22 PM »

Crack in the case? Is there a clear shot from the oil pressure gauge port area?
The correct answer should receive a prize  Cheesy
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StewRat
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 23:14:16 PM »

A lot of guys vent the leading edge of the valve-covers for breather hoses, and on LH side of motor, that's near number 3
Are your valve covers vented here? Adjacent to exhaust pipe?
If the fitting is loose or the hose is loose (or damaged), I'm pretty sure at high RPM you'd get signs of "spraying" oil from a bad enough leak from here.
Just a place to check if your covers are vented like mentioned above.

VW oil leaks can drive a man to insanity.

shit, I see you later said it's cylinder number 4. Maybe your breather line is on the back side of cover?
In any case good luck.

Jim

yes - breathers come out the 1 & 3 end of my heads

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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 23:15:32 PM »

Crack in the case? Is there a clear shot from the oil pressure gauge port area?
The correct answer should receive a prize  Cheesy

The correct answer may indeed get a prize - but suggestions like "crack in the case" won't go in the hat just in case they are right Wink
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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 23:17:10 PM »

Some oil leaks are just crap to find..

Clean, and try again. Remove exhaust and see..

Does it run on all 4? You can get some oil through the valve guide, but not under pressure.

yep seems to be running on all 4
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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 23:19:36 PM »

Over filled and coming out of the dipstick ? Tends to get flicked up on that side by the pulley

Did you have a spring on the dipstick keeping it tight or the tube? This is a bitch to find as the stick can drop back down when not under pressure

hear what you're saying but looked too local to the exhaust flange to be that.

Looked like one of those oil drilling movies when the oil gushes out the well and they put a cap on it.
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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 23:23:06 PM »

Deep sump? What size? If so how far up the dipstick did you fill oil up to?

regular sump, and my oil filter is remote and high and so the oil in the pipes drains when not being pumped so I did a calculation once to work out how much oil that was and where to fill to - so it looks over filled at rest.

Reading that back, while I dont think it is my current problem, it doesnt seem like a great idea as it may mean the crank is sitting in oil until the extra gets pumped up the line to the filter.
One more winter job for the list.
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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 23:24:50 PM »

Stewart, I can't help you on this, but I'm interested in what you find. I've got a very similar problem...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

yep - that's the colour

only I would have been spraying a black line up the strip

good to see you are up and running though - even if it is as red arrows ground support Wink
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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
StewRat
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 21:33:17 PM »

So ... I think I have eventually found the source of this oil leak.

Crazy its taken this long - but once I actually started to take the car out racing, it became clear that the lockup garage it was built in had become impractical. I couldn't get the trailer close to load up, and when the car broke, there was no way to get it back in the lockup.

But Santa brought me a new garage built on more open ground and I eventually got the car out of the cover and off the trailer.

I think what has happened is an oil pipe was in contact with the exhaust and the angle of the resulting leak jet just happened to hit the exhaust flange and spray out from there.

So I need to fix that - but I cannot see a way to route oil pipes to and from the block without them being woven through the merged exhaust.
I have no inner wings, so I've had my remote filter in a couple of different places. But regardless of location I cannot see how to route big oil pipes away from the exhaust.

How have you solved this?
Is there a way without going for braided hoses?

Thanks

Stewart

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“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers

The Stew Rat build thread http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,25365.0.html
Martin S.
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 00:10:45 AM »

I've used spark plug boot protectors for hot spots, but fabbing stays or brackets to hold the hose away from the header is the first thing to do.

https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-Spark-Protector-Sleeve-Boots/dp/B017REZZ3I/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_263_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1NW0VHE02FQXG715BB5E

The braided teflon hose is good, but I've noticed one disadvantage. Since the teflon is hard compared to rubber, it transmits plenty of engine vibration to the oil cooler. When I read the warning about that in the Setrab cooler instructions, I was surprised to feel how much banging can be felt even with the engine just idling. Then you have to fab solid mounts to the body of the car for the hose to dissipate the vibration. Rubber hose does not have that problem.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 00:17:46 AM by Martin S. » Logged

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Roman
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 14:07:01 PM »

I work in the glass industry. In all steel braided hose that may come in contact with glass we use something called "Pyro Jacket".
It can withstand continuous temperatures up to 260ºC, up to 1090ºC for 15 to 20 minutes and 1650ºC for 15 to 30 seconds.
Google it!
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modnrod
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 10:52:18 AM »

I've been mounting oil filters up inside the engine bay (throught the tin near the pulley where needed) where they are safe from exhaust heat, rocks and gravel, concrete kerbs, sticks and branches, etc, etc on friends cars forever, they always seem to want full flow systems.
Hydraulic solid lines, hoses, SS braid, whatever you prefer.
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