Race 1584cc with 48IDA's engine build up aka (Titanium Valves search)

[Greg Ward]

Thanks Jim, that was the intention, all indications on small engines I've done are that this porting
setup works so far... engines have only turned up to 7500- 8000RPM not 9000 like this one, but I changed the ports on this so that it's at the limit for a stock head in the inlet,( without welding) and I'm at 1" 4/8ths exhaust port, plan to use an 1" 5/8ths merged headers on this engine with a 2.25" muffler.

It's easy to make lots of chips far too quickly ! (LOL modnrod then have to fill in the mistakes). Been there done that.

Dave, all the ones I've done so far I haven't done a "polish" on the inlet OR exhaust ....I've left it how it is, but on these ones I just mean cleaning it up so it all looks more Symmetrical/Cleaner.... I'm probably way too pedantic here, but I like that it looks even.
At the moment it all looks hand done, and of course it is, so it isn't perfect, but then again hand done it is and I'm not a CNC machine... Thanks for letting me know about Fabre, they have already and will be very helpful in the future.

Cheers,

Greg

[Greg Ward]

By the way,

No-one commented on what heads they are?

Apart from my porting efforts they came like that from the factory and were on a standard VW engine.

They were going in the trash.

Maybe only Bruce Tweddle has seen this type of head?

[Jim Ratto]

That's the Auto Linea casting. My old job, we brought those in from a vendor out of Brazil. What I found to be an issue with the versions we were sent (maybe yours are different- I hope) was very little material behind exhaust seat. We were under the gun to warranty a wall of these heads, for various "failures" which ultimately, I felt, could be traced back to the lack of casting behind the exhaust seat. I had long-time customers that had been building and servicing VW's for decades complain exhaust valves were tightening up @ an alarming rate, very quickly. These were stock 85.5 x 69 low CR motors in "drivers" with stock cam/springs/ign advance etc. Had a few have seats rip clean out of head.
The heads I saw on shelf, if you removed exh valve and ran your finger tip into port, you could feel a lot of the inner surface of seat (where it should be flush up against alloy of head).

[Greg Ward]

That's the Auto Linea casting. My old job, we brought those in from a vendor out of Brazil. What I found to be an issue with the versions we were sent (maybe yours are different- I hope) was very little material behind exhaust seat. We were under the gun to warranty a wall of these heads, for various "failures" which ultimately, I felt, could be traced back to the lack of casting behind the exhaust seat. I had long-time customers that had been building and servicing VW's for decades complain exhaust valves were tightening up @ an alarming rate, very quickly. These were stock 85.5 x 69 low CR motors in "drivers" with stock cam/springs/ign advance etc. Had a few have seats rip clean out of head.
The heads I saw on shelf, if you removed exh valve and ran your finger tip into port, you could feel a lot of the inner surface of seat (where it should be flush up against alloy of head).

That's all true, but these are different, seem to have been made in 2001 by the casting marks and very thick castings, no dramas with behind the exhaust seat, but they had 9mm Exhaust valves (maybe to help what you'd described). So that's why I've got rid of them and waiting for some new 8mm guides.

Also notice how many cooling fins it has... I haven't milled any off (yet)  

I think they are Brazilian Alcohol heads, they are already on 11.5CR, note how close the spark plug hole is to the barrel seating surface....they also have a full surface at that barrel end, not the 6 little pads like normal stock heads, more like an old 40hp head.

They are stamped 040 101 375.16 each and the Auto Linea G02 mark.

I've never seen anything like them before.

[modnrod]

Hi Greg. Thought I!d ask if you could share what cam you end up with and how it goes when you're all done, while I'm still thinking about it .......... and before my ipad gets non-responsive, again!

I used an FK87 with stock rockers in a similar combo and size to yours once, but the carbs were a bit smaller and tbh it probably had more port volume and less airspeed (the "good old days"). Still, it pulled really hard if I kept it between 4 and 7, you'll probably go bigger on lift and duration.

Good fun this stuff!
 

[Greg Ward]

Exhaust guides are in, and short manifolds have arrived.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

Manley Valves have arrived, and today cut the tops of guides for more lift clearance and for dual springs.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

Match Ported Manifolds today.

As they came cast.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

After some hours of work, this is Top of Manifold looking down the ports to the head.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

And after another few hours, the blended manifolds attached to head in the middle shot, looking back up.

I  didn't want to go too far to have to start welding manifolds because of thin metal, but this looks far enough to me, when I ran water through it each time to clean out the debris from porting, the water actually spins in the chamber to the contour of the manifold.

Let's hope this happens with the Air/Fuel mixture as well and it works like I envisage it should!

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

A little bit more work and the final blended porting down the chambers with manifold attached to the head.

I think this should work really well, it appears that it has a good shot straight down from the Carbs to the head, with a nice transition between the two.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[modnrod]

Nice work mate.
 

[Jim Ratto]

A little bit more work and the final blended porting down the chambers with manifold attached to the head.

I think this should work really well, it appears that it has a good shot straight down from the Carbs to the head, with a nice transition between the two.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

I should have sent you mine!

[Greg Ward]

Thanks Guys,

Took about 8hrs to get those manifolds how you see in the pics, but I know it is well worth it.

[Greg Ward]

Today CC'ed the heads,

Cut back the Exhaust guides on the valve side, to the casting surface, and cut back the Inlet guides 0.200".
I wasn't going to touch them, but then I thought all the porting work that looks good flow wise, wouldn't perform as well with a long length of guide in the way.

Then did a 3 angle valve job on all seats.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

Lastly chamfered all the valve and the retainer side of all guides ID and OD as they were sharp edged after cutting.

Then spent 2hrs getting some Valve spring shims to fit perfectly!  

I understand the ID because I set my valve boss cutter to be almost interference fit with the inner springs so I could retain as much boss diameter as possible for strength, however the OD was nowhere near a slip in and was a lengthy exercise to get them to slip down but not take too much off.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[modnrod]

Time is relative........you start when the sun just pokes over the trees, and then it seems to take only an hour or two before it's lunchtime, you're dehydrated, and starving hungry from the midday heat! 

I've just finished off my superstocker heads too (for now at least, they will just be run as they are), my chamber shape is very similar to that in the clearancing around the valves, but they look to be very shallow chambers. I can see what you mean about the high compression ratios you can get from them.

I too had to double-check everything, only the Crow Cams springs/retainers and the SI Valves were good to go as they were, nothing else fit properly.

[Greg Ward]

If I can work out how to get it off my phone, I'll show you the Crank...

It's a very high RPM special from Jose...

[alex d]

great work! Have you decided which camshaft you will run?

[Greg Ward]

I'm not sure which cam yet, I have a choice between an FK48/45 or a JPM.

I'm leaning towards the JPM only because I have run it before albeit in a larger engine.

[Greg Ward]

Found them on my phone after a search, here's a couple of crank pictures for this engine, it's had the works done to it, so it should be a good thing.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

Well I've finally finished these, I thought my usual 3 angle valve job would suffice, however it took 8 times of recutting these Exhaust valve seats to get these in the correct height.
It only confirms my thoughts that these are Brazilian Alcohol heads, as the exhaust valve seats are almost as hard as crankshaft material which I can only assume is to protect them from heat.
Took me 2hrs each seat of lapping and checking and recutting and relapping and recchecking and recutting to get the correct seating surface for these Manley exhaust valves.

The inlet seats which I cut at the same time before lapped in within 2 minutes each...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

I said in my last post that I've finished these, however, no heads are finished without the "accessories"... and those accessories are what brings the whole combination together.

So in that regard, I got my 48 IDA's for this engine, they aren't original, I simply couldn't afford another set like my other race engine with Italiian IDA's bored to 51.5mm.

These will have to do for this 1584cc Race engine.

The first thing I noticed was I liked an old set of Bugpack lash caps rather than the CB lash caps with a tiny hole in them.

In all the years I've used lash caps (since 1994) I've never had one with a hole drilled for extra oiling as it was and still is, unnecessary, just the same as lifters, in my opinion, this was a race engine revving to 8000rpm and driven to every event, some a round trip of 1800miles.
Set up the things correctly in the first place and these "gimmicks" aren't needed, I believe.

The holes provide a wonderful place for fatigue cracks to start, and I certainly don't want to start that with this serious engine.

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

So, next steps were, install lash caps.

Install the CB Chromoly Rocker Studs.

Install the 1.4:1 Rocker assembly...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

Then install some new Velocity Stacks...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Greg Ward]

And aircleaners are always a drama with IDA's, so since this is a full on race engine, I think these will do the job...

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[modnrod]

Excuse me Greg, could I please ask what you thought of the fitment of the rocker assemblies?
Did they need much prepwork or finishing?
Thanks, Dave

[Greg Ward]

Hi Dave,
I've used 6 sets of these rockers and all have been excellent.

They are silicon bronze bushed and are very well made, I've only got them from one supplier though.

There is a 1.25 set on another 1584cc engine that I built for a friend doing 9.3 @73MPH in the eighth mile, and that has been revved to 8200rpm ("accidentally").. so I know they are a strong item...

This one I need to move a few shims around as they are a bit stiffer than I would like, but out of the box, all of them seem to line up brilliantly with the valve stems.

Personally, I will never again use the stock style rockers that adjust at the valve, these are too easy to set and too good not to use, I have only had 2 Beetles with stock engines and if I had to choose, these would be on all of them even with the stock cam...

 

[modnrod]

Thanks Greg, good to know.
Of course if I had 1/2 a brain I would have also asked exactly what brand they are and your local supplier ........... 
LOL! Can I ask now please? 

I use 1.4s on stock cams all the time, works really well.
I'm about to try stock late rockers fitted with 10mm Kombi adjusters, I'm hoping it will work but I won't know for a while I guess.

[bedjo78]

what is latest update on this project ?