Race 1584cc with 48IDA's engine build up aka (Titanium Valves search)

[Greg Ward]

Still working on the piston/barrel part of this engine, I have some pistons I want to use that need milling on the top and valve pockets cut in them.

The barrels need to be shortened as the pin height is a lot higher.

The case for all this, I'm unsure of, I have a brand new MAG mexican case that I got in a job lot, or I could purchase a new non-raised roof AL case, I'm undecided at this point.

Cheers,

Greg

[PPRMicke]

And after another few hours, the blended manifolds attached to head in the middle shot, looking back up.

I  didn't want to go too far to have to start welding manifolds because of thin metal, but this looks far enough to me, when I ran water through it each time to clean out the debris from porting, the water actually spins in the chamber to the contour of the manifold.

Let's hope this happens with the Air/Fuel mixture as well and it works like I envisage it should!

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Hi Greg
I would think you need to file them 2-2.5 "from the head
If you have the opportunity to test them in the flow bench I would think that the head flows more without a manifold
/// Micke

[PPRMicke]

Hi Greg
If not, it may look like this
Head is the high numbers. Dom low is with intake

[Greg Ward]

Thanks heaps, I get the idea, my "flow bench" is the water faucet when I run hot water through to get the swarf out of either head or manifold.

I've gone up the manifold as far as I believe it is valid, I'm not into hogging things out for more flow, this has worked really well for me before, so I'll run with what I've done so far.
Smaller porting and faster airspeed, remember this set of heads are stock, they only have 35.5mm inlet and 32mm exhaust valves.

I need to get the pistons and barrels sorted, then I can put the rest of it together.

Cheers,

Greg

[Jim Ratto]

Hi Greg, just wondered what the latest update was on this engine project. Very interested in how this is going,   thank you,

Jim R.

[Greg Ward]

G'Day Jim,
Ah, I've had that thing happen which stops a lot of projects moving forward, for many of us for different reasons, my mother fell headwards into serious dementia some time ago, it got so bad recently, that I am now a full time carer for her.
She was 90yrs old this May gone, so I have been still on this project, but to make ends meet as well, I've been trying to work on some refurbished cylinder heads (that's the program) to still keep me sane working in the home garage.

I'm getting a weeks break very shortly, so I'll take some pics of a bunch of related items for this engine build, especially pistons and barrels, the pistons are from a very high revving commercial car, (talking $150 a set with ring set , instead of $700 for some Wisecos) ;-)

Magnesium case, it is brand new, but Hecho in Mexico, so I've ruined a new one of them many years ago before, but that was 94mm bore not 85.5mm, so I don't know but I'll try it.

BUT, I want this engine to be a 9000rpm engine, decided to use my 9500rpm JPM cam with this from my current race engine, but limited to 9, I do think these tiny stock valves with serious cam and springs will rev it's brain off, the same cam was on 48 x 40mm valves albeit Titanium ones....

So, I'll give you a bunch more info soon Jim, but I need to sort it out in the next couple of weeks, hopefully I can show you some dished pistons becoming flat tops and then valve pocketed as well...

Thanks for taking a serious interest mate.

Greg

[brian e]

I am also very interested to see this coming together.

Can't wait to see what your pistons are from.  I really appreciate out of the box true "hot-rodding", and finding alternate sources for parts rather then just ordering $$ stuff off the shelf. 

Brian

[modnrod]

85.5mm, hi rev, light, thin rings, excellent quality ......... Evo?

 

[Greg Ward]

Here are a few pics of the pistons I want to use from a couple of different angles.

These are just as they are out of the box with nothing done to them as yet.

As I'm sure you can see there are a few procedures that need to be done to these before I can actually use them  

These weigh in with gudgeon/piston pin at 475g at the moment, as opposed to a Cofap/Mahle with pin at 530g.

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[Martin S.]

Looks good! Slipper skirt with 85.5. I guess the shorter pin would help make them lighter.

[Greg Ward]

Yep 60g or so as is, but the whole top of the piston down to 0.030" or more needs to be milled off, I haven't got 4 valves per cylinder as per stock usage 

Plus these are for an engine that doesn't need circlips holding the piston pin, they are press fit or some shit I don't get, so I will have circlip grooves machined in to take some spirolox pin clips.

After that, they get mocked up in the engine, and then the math occurs for the valve lift with rocker ratio and compression needs and I can work out how deep the valve pockets in the pistons need to be.

The cam with the 1.54 ratio rockers will lift to 0.59290"

Cheers,

Greg

[Greg Ward]

I've done up a set of 20yr old Cofap barrels for this engine, I think they came up not too bad from throwaway to almost new again!

Cheers,

Greg


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[Greg Ward]

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[gracey]

Looking good Greg, can't wait to see the final build.

[modnrod]

I can't wait to hear it ...... 

[Greg Ward]

Hi Dave,

You will hear it next year, I've been talking with Nathan Abbott who wants to run it in his Beetle in next years Australian Hillclimb Championship at Mt Panorama.

I was wondering if there was any interest in either some documentation or a Video of building this little engine once I have all the parts ready to go?

Cheers,

Greg

[Jim Ratto]

Hi Dave,

You will hear it next year, I've been talking with Nathan Abbott who wants to run it in his Beetle in next years Australian Hillclimb Championship at Mt Panorama.

I was wondering if there was any interest in either some documentation or a Video of building this little engine once I have all the parts ready to go?

Cheers,

Greg

I'd love to see your documented progress.

Jim

[modnrod]

I'd love to see it, for sure!
I kinda miss the detailed step-by-step stuff, I really like the picture trail of a rebuild with a few notes, my favourite.
 
Hearing that thing howl down the mountain would be very, very cool.

Good stuff Greg.

[alex d]

I think we would all love to see your work even in more detail!

[Greg Ward]

I know this is not this engine,not the 1584cc yet

but because Ive been preoccupied,

Here is my 1916cc one "running in",  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEupjoluhlY


I got 2 weeks away from looking after my mother....

Happy New Year,

Greg

[Greg Ward]

Here's a couple of pics of the engine above..

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Cheers,

Greg

[brewsy]

Hey Greg,
Cant wait to see the step by step! 

Loving the Yoshi can BTW. Guessing an MC end can is cheaper and lighter than some car units?

marc

[modnrod]

 
My shortened Yoshi weighs 900g.
 
Remarkably loud though! LOL! Go figure.

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PS: oh, and ....... the OEM GSXR ones are much quieter, and even the heaviest ones weigh less than 3kg (Ti about 1kg).
They're the ones to get I think for smaller 50-54mm pipes. Cheap on eb@y.

[Bruce]

No oil filter?

[Greg Ward]

Nope, no oil filter, no extra coolers, just an anti-surge sump that still retains the stock screen.

Nothing extra that can blow up or come off.

[Greg Ward]

Hey Greg,
Cant wait to see the step by step! 

Loving the Yoshi can BTW. Guessing an MC end can is cheaper and lighter than some car units?

marc

Hi marc, yes it is lighter, but since a friend gave it to me to see if I could make it work.

I thought it was a good thing because being a bike muffler, it's repackable, instead of the usual rivets at the end I drilled and tapped for bolts, so you can just take it apart and repack it if necessary.

In my class of racing in Hillclimb the organisers are pretty strict on noise limits, so having the ability to redo it with new material is a bonus.

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[modnrod]

Nope, no oil filter, no extra coolers, just an anti-surge sump that still retains the stock screen.

Nothing extra that can blow up or come off.

We really need a "like" button here ........

[bean]

would also like to see step by step, that 1916 sounds mad

[brewsy]

Nope, no oil filter, no extra coolers, just an anti-surge sump that still retains the stock screen.

Nothing extra that can blow up or come off.

Interesting that point Greg.
Read a thread from the team that run a Bug in the US 24hrsLemons series and they choose to run points instead of an ignitor as they feel that points will just wear gradually over the race rather than fail completely. Not sure I agree with that POV tbh considering their last race the nub on the points that is opened by the cam wore away and stopped them..

[Greg Ward]

Nope, no oil filter, no extra coolers, just an anti-surge sump that still retains the stock screen.

Nothing extra that can blow up or come off.

Interesting that point Greg.
Read a thread from the team that run a Bug in the US 24hrsLemons series and they choose to run points instead of an ignitor as they feel that points will just wear gradually over the race rather than fail completely. Not sure I agree with that POV tbh considering their last race the nub on the points that is opened by the cam wore away and stopped them..

I can't quite claim that infalability, I ran points ignitions for the first 15yrs I ever raced a car, never had any spares, just drove it the 1500miles to the racetrack, ran it to 8000rpm at the time and drove home again, I never considered a backup, but since it became twin plug electronic in 2005, I haven't ever had a drama.

My point of view is only ever on what I have personally done myself, I'll never give a point of view on a "what if I did this" situation, because how can I? I have no idea, that is why I have been around for many many years, but still retain a "newbie status"....

What I can tell you, is , I've raced VW's now, officially we clicked over to 30yrs this year, I've driven my racecar to the tracks for 20yrs of that time, sometimes putting on 15,000miles in whatever year I was racing, but then I wanted a higher HP/Higher spec engine that I should keep pristine, so it was trailered since 2010...

The one thing I learned in all this time, was a horrible lesson about Chromeoly pushrods which I refuse to ever use in my life again, and the others have been about keeping things simple.

I have never had a need for an external cooler and have driven over 1500miles to the track on freeways with even a 4.375R/P and a 1.23 fourth gear. I don't believe in them.

I have never needed to worry about an oil filter, because I change the oil often enough to take care of any contamination, and I don't believe in them.

The only sump I will ever use, is one that let's me slide the car around corners at 9000rpm, so I don't use normal "drag race" sumps....

I'm afraid all that sounds a bit arrogant, but since my last engine that was JPM based heads and cam was revved to 9000rpm every gearchange for 5yrs, bearings came out looking amazing, case never needed a linebore, and the crank was never even thought about a grind on anything, I'll simply say that I'll keep doing things the way we have been, cause for me it is working a treat.

Cheers,

Greg