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Author Topic: Fueltech sharing  (Read 2748 times)
Frallan
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« on: November 29, 2017, 16:26:37 pm »

This thread is for us who like the new feautures of FT and wish to share experiences.

My hope next is to find out more on the practical exeperinece of inclination/wheelie Control feature.
Sensor options needed and experience.
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 17:17:26 pm »

Ja det finns tele  Smiley
/// Micke
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Basti
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 08:25:31 am »

Hi Frallan,

i started to work on the wheeliecontrol...
Fueltech says to use ridehight sensors but I use damper travel sensors on the front and rear.
So when i recoginze a wheelie i started to Retard ignition. But it was just a first try.

on my new car I Need to get experience first to start working on this again Wink

Cheers,
Basti
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- black 62 cal look beetle
- Pro Mod Race car
Frallan
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Posts: 798



« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 10:52:51 am »

This is one of the sharings/news I hope to hear abot about from you Christiano.
 Grin


If a FT500 thread starts, I can jump in with some cool stuff whenever needed.

Right now I'm writing an article about the anti-wheelie control and some successful tests we have done at the track using sensor way cheaper than the freaking expensive $600+ Racepak one that most guys in the US are using.
Can't give much details right now b/c it'll be published on a performance magazine, but as soon as we have everything set I can translate it to english and publish it somewhere.


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Christiano
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 12:33:42 pm »

Hey guys!

For the wheelie control, I spent some time testing some CHEAP options, b/c I didn't want to pay $500 on a freaking Racepak ride height sensor, which is what they use in the US.
So I thought we could use one of the distance sensors we have in the robots I build to play with my son and guess what: the thing f* works!

Of course you have to know how to use the function and configure the sensor, so that's why only a couple guys here in BR (which happens to be friends of mine Smiley ) are successfully using them, even though I have wrote an article for a performance magazine explaining (not in details) how to use the sensor.

The sensor is a SHARP infrared sensor (GP2Y0A02YK) and it's a bit tricky to calibrate its values. You have to attach it to the car in its final position, and then lift the front of the car, inch by inch, check the sensor reading and start building your calibration table for that sensor.

One thing to notice about this sensor is that it isn't a linear sensor and it's reading table might give you wrong values if the sensor is too close to the ground. My experience with this sensor tells me to fix the sensor at a distance of at least 7" from the ground and then you can start your table from there.

So when building your calibration table, the lowest height it'll have is 7". Then you lift the front until you have the sensor at 8" from the ground, you check the reading in V and add an entry of xV - X" in the table and you'll keep doing it until you feel you have a good table.
Keep in mind the max reading for this sensor is a distance of 150cm and that's not a straight reading anymore as soon as you lift the front b/c the sensor isn't pointing straight to the ground anymore. You'll be measuring the height in a straight line, but the max reach of the sensor will still be measured in an angled way. Smiley

After that, when you check the FT display it'll be showing 7" (or whatever is your first calibration value) of reading with the car at ride height.
I like to make it read 0, so I just go to the sensor offset and adjust it to 0 my reading by setting the offset type to "after conversion" and putting the inverse of my first value in the table. So if the first value is 7, my offset is -7, which will give me a reading of 0 at ride height. Smiley

I'm attaching the draft of the article published on that magazine. It's in Portuguese but you can easily throw it in google translator and get the main idea behind the words Smiley

(I know. I wrote too much Smiley )
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 12:35:34 pm by Christiano » Logged
Frallan
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 13:34:26 pm »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ] Cool!

For me, I will put the sensor up front on a 7 meter long dragster.
Should work even if I have to make a small support frame to get it up in the air as you describe.
Portugese, no problem.
I can take on me to translate and share here.

Translated a bit roughly and attached the Pictures.
Nice write up Christiano!  Molto Obrigado!
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 14:20:24 pm by Frallan » Logged

Frallan
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 14:27:59 pm »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

8 USD from China and under 20 USD over the counter in local store here in Sweden.
Once again, really appreciated information.
Test report will come this summer. [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 14:29:42 pm by Frallan » Logged

Christiano
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 17:32:31 pm »

Glad to help!

Keep posting your experiences/questions and I'll write some comments whenever I can Smiley
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Chip
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 00:10:17 am »

That's awesome! Not running FT here, but the sensor will be super useful. Thanks!
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richie
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 20:42:12 pm »

I got a chance to test this sensor yesterday, had some other issues so no decent passes but did learn the front of car is nearly 3inches higher at about 120mph than at standstill/normal  Shocked This is the Old cab so no aero stuff at all

cheers Richie
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
modnrod
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Old School Volksies


« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 02:38:19 am »

No wonder your car is so quick Ritchie, your reducing friction as you go!
 Grin
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richie
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 20:15:51 pm »

No wonder your car is so quick Ritchie, your reducing friction as you go!
 Grin

Doesn't do much for steering input though Shocked
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
hotstreetvw
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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 21:32:15 pm »

use one of those sensors for the wall.   Cheesy
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andy198712
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2018, 22:47:02 pm »

E90 BMWs with xneons have a unit (box with an input arm attached to suspension)attached in the front wheel well to the suspension components to raise or lower the headlights depending on suspension position, wonder if that could be a cheap and easy option.?
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Chip
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2018, 00:15:07 am »

Lots of Cadillacs and a few Lincoln's here in the states also have ride height sensors, used to help control air bag suspension systems. I may grab a few and implement them next winter.
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richie
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 08:13:44 am »

use one of those sensors for the wall.   Cheesy

 Cheesy   That actually really got me thinking if it was possible to impliment Shocked
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
Frallan
Hero Member
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Posts: 798



« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 08:16:28 am »


use one of those sensors for the wall.   Cheesy
[/quote]

 Cheesy   That actually really got me thinking if it was possible to impliment Shocked
[/quote]

"The Wall"  Huh

Please translate to an old Viking. I do not get it.....
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richie
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Posts: 5163



« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 08:30:44 am »


use one of those sensors for the wall.   Cheesy

 Cheesy   That actually really got me thinking if it was possible to impliment Shocked
[/quote]

"The Wall"  Huh

Please translate to an old Viking. I do not get it.....
[/quote]

So it reads sideways and/or forwards so cuts power if you are about to hit the wall like they do in the vacuum cleaners they are fitted to!!!!!!  Shocked Grin


https://www.dyson.co.uk/content/dyson/gb/en/products/vacuum-cleaners/robot-vacuums/dyson-360-eye/dyson-360-eye-nickel-blue.html?istCompanyId=4a4
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
Frallan
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Posts: 798



« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2018, 08:35:16 am »

THAT is interesting!

I just ordered 2 units from at about USD 12 each.
One more and then I have one for the height and then a left end right mounted up front at the Wheels, would be a nice safety device.
I like your thinking guys!
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richie
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Posts: 5163



« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2018, 10:03:29 am »

This is when the "Oh shit" ignition cut activates, as you can see it kills it completely and pass is done but will save your ass if its all going wrong  Wink Shocked Grin
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
Frallan
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Posts: 798



« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2018, 10:14:36 am »

Thanks!  This is good stuff. Appreciated that you take your time to share.
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richie
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2018, 17:20:55 pm »

Thanks!  This is good stuff. Appreciated that you take your time to share.

 Smiley  No problem, as you can see cut doesn't need to be this long duration but this was only 2nd pass with it on so I am still figuring it out

cheers Richie
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
Christiano
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2018, 01:58:15 am »

A bit late b/c I'm in a rush trying get my car together and rebuilding my son's jr dragster and a friends car Smiley

For those who have FT500/FT600, an update was released a month ago (3.40).

https://www.fueltech.net/blogs/articles/new-ft500-ft500lite-and-ft600-update-1

Among the bunch of new things, there are 2 I think you guys would like to hear about.


1 - Improved 2step strategy.
2 - Active traction control



I'll pick one of them that might not be so intuitive as the other.
So today I'm gonna talk about the Improved 2step strategy.

Sometimes using a huge turbo becomes a pain when it's about making it spool when staging the car.
There are a few tricks to help to achieve this (and Richie has tried some of them on the old Cabrio with success), but there's something even better now and that no other EMS has done up to now.

Usually, when setting up your 2step strategy you define a target RPM and a target Ignition Timing (usually below 0 to have it really retarded to help on the turbo spool).
Some engines like it, some not.
When you retard your ignition too much, some engines may not respond well to this.
They may take longer to rev or bog when releasing the 2step button due to the engine not being able to get the cylinders ready for launch quick enough after a nice amount of ignition retard due to fuel soaked spark plugs or any other reason.
Also, keep the engine on an ignition cut limiter for too long is hard on valves and valve seats.

With that in mind and, of course, always looking to help people improve their setup, there's a new feature associated to the 2step function.
Additionally to the well known options, you can now decide if you want have your 2step by ignition cut (standard mode) , ignition retard (new mode) or both.

So let's say you already have your 2step configure to 5000rpm and -5 as your ignition timing during the 2step, but your engine still struggles to build boost of the line.
Usually you'd increase the ignition retard, bump up the RPM target, try change your fuel table or even enable the 3step function.
Now you have an easier way of fixing this problem.

In the 2step config screen, you now have a "Ignition retard" checkbox.
When you click it, an new field will be enabled. That's the "Ignition Retard Applied" field.
Here you can define a lower ignition timing other than your usual one (-5). You can put any number you think would help you spooling your turbo.
Usually you'll see extremely low numbers on this field, such as -30 or -40 and I'll explain you why.

Let's say you enabled the "Ignition retard" function and set you "Ignition Retard Applied" to -40.
As soon as you enable this new option, additionally to the standard 2step strategy, you'll have an ignition timing up to that new ignition timing applied to RANDOM cylinders.
So you may have Cylinder #1 showing -5 as ignition timing (which is your base timing on your 2step config), Cylinder #2 showing -15, Cylinder #3 showing -8 and Cylinder #4 showing -40.

What does this mean?
This means that:
  • You'll have more retard applied than the standard -5 you have set for your 2step timingl
  • Since you have a huge ignition retard being applied to random cylinders instead of a huge retard being applied to all of them, you'll still be able to rev up your engine on the starting line and it's easier for the engine to be ready for launch after the 2step is released
  • For the same reason mentioned above, your engine will operate much smoother b/c you'll have fewer ignition cuts since high timing retard itself will hold the engine revs, but not as much as if the timing retard was applied to all the cylinders at the same time
  • And finally: you'll make boost much quicker!

From here, since this bigger timing retard is applied to random cylinders, helping us spool our turbo faster than usual and still keep our engine responsive, we can make a few other changes to keep our engine healthy and happy
You can now:

  • Use a not so low ignition timing in your fixed ignition timing setting, allowing your to reach out to your target RPM quicker than when you have a too low of an ignition timing
  • Try LOWER your target RPM, since your turbo is going to spool faster b/c of the huge retard applied to the random cylinders instead of b/c of the high RPM+ignition cut
  • Try make more boost at the same target RPM or at a lower target RPM

I helped a friend of mine test this feature on his drag car (the one I'm helping rebuild) back on May and he made a nice video showing how it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOxEUXyPpRY
It's in portuguese, but you can enable the youtube auto-generated subtitles just to have an idea of what he's saying, which is almost everything I said here.

Now go there test this new feature and let me know the results and send me a message in case you have any doubts Smiley

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 02:05:45 am by Christiano » Logged
Basti
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2018, 07:03:04 am »

Nicely written and well explained my friend!

I have the update on the new Beetle allready and will maybe try it next Weekend Wink

Cheers,
Basti
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- black 62 cal look beetle
- Pro Mod Race car
Frallan
Hero Member
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Posts: 798



« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2018, 09:49:23 am »

THANKS a LOT for this sharing!

Obrigado!

Frallan
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volkskris
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2018, 13:57:36 pm »

Here is a video of a TT V8 manual fairlady using that 2step feature.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlN4V2sjaaG/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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Christiano
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« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2018, 00:03:13 am »

Nicely written and well explained my friend!

I have the update on the new Beetle allready and will maybe try it next Weekend Wink

Cheers,
Basti

Thanks Basti!
Great to hear you have the latest version and is going to test it.
When do you plan to race the car again?

THANKS a LOT for this sharing!
Obrigado!
Frallan

You're welcome Frallan!


Please let me know if you guys would like me to produce some more texts about anything in specific!
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richie
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Posts: 5163



« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2018, 21:22:12 pm »

Hi Chris

have updated to latest version as well but not tried it yet, will see how that works out when I get a chance, we got 3 cars running Fueltech now and 3 more in the works & my plan is to switch New cabrio to it over the winter so the learning & testing once they are all running should get us some pretty good data in a short time Cool

cheers Richie
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Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink 

Don't take post count as knowledge Wink 

Rev6, complete waste of money!!!!
Christiano
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« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2018, 23:56:58 pm »

Hi Chris

have updated to latest version as well but not tried it yet, will see how that works out when I get a chance, we got 3 cars running Fueltech now and 3 more in the works & my plan is to switch New cabrio to it over the winter so the learning & testing once they are all running should get us some pretty good data in a short time Cool

cheers Richie

Great to hear!
Keep me posted... and you know how to find me whenever needed!
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