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Author Topic: Fueltech sharing  (Read 33704 times)
Frallan
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« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2021, 10:01:48 am »

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Any tips on what I can do to rectify this?
I have disconnected the injector plugs, the connections outgoing from the FT500
I have reflashed to the new 4.73 update a couple of times.

The injectors are wired with direct 12 volts (fused) power and blue wires individually in primary and secondary connections.

I also have a strange white wire issue on the standard oil pressure (#4) incoming. Even tried to reconfigure and enable other free inputs instead of the standard number #4. No go.
Fuel pressure works well and if I switch the oil pressure sender to the fuel pressure wiring, it is OK. I can read oil pressure on the fuel pressure input wiring.
I measure 5 volt incoming, earth and then 2 volts on both oil and fuel pressure wiring. So they are identical.
By this I draw conclusion that wiring is OK but strangely enough I might have an internal FT 500 config issue.

Could the two issues of injectors and wire #4 incoming be related?

I also have TPS, engine temp, air temp, transmission oil temp and they are all fully OK.

Ideas? Inspiration what I can test more?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 12:11:58 pm by Frallan » Logged

Basti
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« Reply #91 on: August 31, 2021, 07:19:24 am »

Hi!

Which injectors do you use? Do you running an Injector Peak and Hold driver?
What happens if you test the outputs?

Basti
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- black 62 cal look beetle
- Pro Mod Race car
Frallan
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« Reply #92 on: August 31, 2021, 08:51:26 am »

Hello Basti!
I run 4 high impedance Siemens on blue wires #1-4 as primaries and 4 more as secondary on blue wires #5-8.
So no, no need for an extra driver unit. I hope

If I run the time based output test, (linked to my transbrake and 2 step) nothing changes on the injectors in output. They do not react.
The screen shows the correct ms as per the fuel map, but outputs are not activated.
but whatever I have asked the simulation to do in terms of MAP, rpm, temperatures, boost etc, does work.

It is wired like this for primary and the same for the secondary.

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Basti
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« Reply #93 on: August 31, 2021, 09:08:12 am »

ok great.
If you go to output config under Sensors and Calibration you will find all seletced outputs.
There is a smal thunder sign next to it. Click it to do the output test. Then you will hear the Injector clicking
or you can test teh voltage on the injector connector to find the problem.

I hope this helps.

Basti
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- black 62 cal look beetle
- Pro Mod Race car
Frallan
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« Reply #94 on: August 31, 2021, 10:51:37 am »

Ahhhh! YES!  I know that spark sign.
Thanks! will try that tonight.  I will report back immediately and also take some pictures, if there is a question mark.

From last few days
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Table view of the wiring from few months back.
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 10:53:21 am by Frallan » Logged

Christiano
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« Reply #95 on: August 31, 2021, 11:45:52 am »

Nice build!

There's either something wrong with the outputs or with the wiring itself.

Grab a multimeter or a polarity test pen and check if you have a continuous signal from the pin in the ECU harness plug to the pin on the injector plug.
Also check if you really have power on the red wire that is used by the injector.

Usually we use the RPM activated output to activate the relays that will feed coils/injectors.
If that's the case, before running your tests, set the RPM to 0, save it back to the ECU and then try running your tests again.
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Frallan
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« Reply #96 on: August 31, 2021, 12:52:33 pm »

Usually we use the RPM activated output to activate the relays that will feed coils/injectors.
If that's the case, before running your tests, set the RPM to 0, save it back to the ECU and then try running your tests again.

Interesting!!!  So you are saying you do that for safety reason?
You set 50 rpm for example to activate my relays for ignition and injectors. If the engine stops, for any reason not being racing and maybe accident, the relays will drop and shut of before I can click them off manually? Is that the thinking?
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Christiano
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« Reply #97 on: August 31, 2021, 14:35:04 pm »

Exactly Smiley

Also, some coils are very sensitive, like the ign1a smart coils and this will save you from trouble.
If you let them powered with no discharge for a while, they'll just blow up (been there, done that. on my son's jr dragster....)
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Frallan
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« Reply #98 on: August 31, 2021, 15:50:54 pm »

OK!

5001100171  FT CDI coils for the FT spark. Not smart at all..... Grin
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Frallan
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« Reply #99 on: August 31, 2021, 18:51:37 pm »

YEAHHHH!!!!
Injector success and a clear understanding of how I can test each output.
All 8 injectors react individually on clicking the "lightning" button.

What was wrong?  30 second to 2 minute delay on the relay and then it disconnected. TRICKY!  I bought it at Biltema. Same as buying electrical stuff at Harbor Freight. My mistake. I will replace all of them.
So a huge thanks for leading me the right way and simply finding it.

Now I could test my two boost activated outputs and noticed how they were inverted. i.e. always on with 12 V until activated when they dropped. Now fixed!

Next issue: Yeah, sorry.
Grey ignition output #1-4 will not react to the now famous lightning button. (or giving any output at cranking. I do get rpm on both the PC , Tachometer and on the oscilloscope. Now the scope and I are not friends yet, but that is next issue. Cherry Hall with 5 volt supply and 1 k pull up )
I have tried enabling the FTSpark multiple wiring option and also without. Does not matter. In any case, no reaction to the test buttons on any of the four grey outputs.

Any good ideas that I can test? 

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Christiano
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« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2021, 19:36:21 pm »

Oh.
You're using a MW box, not FT Spark.

Uncheck the FT Spark option, use the "falling edge" option instead.
Make sure the outputs are wired to the correct MW pins and that the MW box is properly powered and with no error.
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Frallan
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« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2021, 19:54:32 pm »

I love it that the time difference seems to have no influence on your support. Nice!

Now I have tried both. FT Spark and not enabled.
Both with falling edge.
I get the impression that FT spark and MW are pretty much the same, if using multiple wired and not using the CAN communication.

I have also disconnected the MW and measured on the connector pins from FT #1-4 and seeing if I could get a zero ground trigger when clicking the lightning test button. No go.
Main power to the MW (four 12 v cables are activated) and holding without drop like the other relay.
The trigger (ignition on single red wire to the MW) is also checked and on.
But the issue does not likely come from the MW but signal in to the MW.

I have not tried to trigger one channel in to the MW by giving it a click to 0-ground. Maybe that could be a verification if I can get a spark from one channel in order to verify the MW?
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Christiano
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« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2021, 20:04:57 pm »

That's correct.
FT won't know whether it's a sparkPro/smart coil/MW box on the other end.
It'll just send the activation signal through the ignition output and that's it.

FT Spark is a bit different, that's why you have the FTSpark checkbox instead.

Quote
I have also disconnected the MW and measured on the connector pins from FT #1-4 and seeing if I could get a zero ground trigger when clicking the lightning test button. No go.

That's interesting. Does it happen to ANY (not just 1-4) output that you try to test?
Don't connect them to the MW box, just try hit the test button for each and measure the result on the harness end.
I've seen cases where the ignition outputs got burnt for whatever reason and then we had to switch them to different outputs to make things work.
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Frallan
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« Reply #103 on: August 31, 2021, 20:09:15 pm »


That's interesting. Does it happen to ANY (not just 1-4) output that you try to test?
Don't connect them to the MW box, just try hit the test button for each and measure the result on the harness end.
I've seen cases where the ignition outputs got burnt for whatever reason and then we had to switch them to different outputs to make things work.
[/quote]
I have not tested that. Will do so.

Now the unit is brand new from box. It is only that it has been lying on a shelf for some years.
But, who knows.....
Good idea. I will figure out if I can trigger other grey outputs.
The two yellow did work well.
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Christiano
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« Reply #104 on: August 31, 2021, 20:19:06 pm »

If the outputs are burnt, it could have been b/c of a backfeed or some other issue.
I had a similar issue at the track once when my son's FT500 just wouldn't trigger the coil. Tried different gray outputs and nothing.
Ended up using a different FT500 box and things were back to normal.

If you have a polarity test pen/multimeter handy, you should be able to quickly test any of the gray outputs.
Or you can just use them to activate one of the injectors, or relays activated by ground, for example.
If they click, the outputs are working.
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Frallan
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« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2021, 07:22:15 am »

SAD!   Huh

Output grey #1-4 gives a constant ground. Upon activating them with the lightning button, they pulse with 0.5-1 second interval.
Output grey #5-8 give a 680-690 ohm resistance to grund and upon clicking the button, I get ground activated.

In order to get this dragster to the last event in Sweden, if weather permits, I will put a MSD 7 and distributor fixed at 20 degrees.

Any idea if the FT500 can be repaired?
I will ask my sales rep here in Sweden too but it was 3 years ago I bought it.
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Frallan
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« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2021, 07:26:51 am »

I have to think a bit..... if I configure the engine as an eight cylinder, custom firing order 1432 xxxx or 1x4x3x2x. Maybe I could work around the missing 4 outputs?
Then configure the tach output simply on any other free output.

With constant ground /trigger on all inputs to the MW, sitting like that for some time, I do not like the thought what might have happened. GRRRRR
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Christiano
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« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2021, 11:51:18 am »

if 5-8 are working, you can use them.
No need to set crazy custom firing orders or anything like that Smiley
Change your RPM settings to advanced and it should allow you to move your ignition output to 5-8 outputs instead of 1-4

But yeah. Reach out to the dealer and see what they can do.
It can be repaired for sure, but it needs to be sent to the factory in Brazil.
So he will have to lend you a spare FT500 until yours is fixed or exchanged with a new one.
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Frallan
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« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2021, 12:15:27 pm »

OK!

I will look in to that Christiano!

I probbaly know now, what has happened.
The unit was "new" but had been powered up and checked out by my sales person here in Sweden. USB and then 12 V red and black.
But no other cables connected.
He told me and was honest with this and price was accordingly lower than a new unit.
Not really relevant to my mistake but it influenced me thinking that it did have a map setup and all OK.

As I probably have missed to do the setup with the four outputs configured for FTSpark/MW as triggers, prior to power up and have connected it, once I power it up, they are grounded, until I do this setup configuration.
This has caused the MW to go in to four channel constant trigger.
The MW Pro Drag CDI unit should see trigger signals, not constant ground.
A 400/600 mj ProDrag ignition will not like that kind of treatment.
It has burnt and as it did that, most likely sent some power back in to my FT500 #1-4 outputs channels. Poof!
Two strikes in one.

So, if this is the case, I do not have a working four channel CDI, so the alternative is to source 4 pc smart coils....... or the MSD7 and MSD distributor. Last not being my preference.
Thanks for the fantastic support!  It really has helped me a lot!
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Christiano
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« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2021, 13:19:54 pm »

That's the kind of thing that unfortunately happens sometimes...

But I gotta tell you... Depending on what you want to burn, go with IGN1A smart coils (fueltech smart coils are ign1a at the end of the day...) and go hard on dwell time.
Usually that's good enough even for some high boost applications.
If you still need more spark, go with the new FTSpark generation and the 750mj box.

There's a lot of thinkings about spark power and all, but the one I like is: more spark power=less ignition timing required=happier/freer revving engine.
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Frallan
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« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2021, 13:54:25 pm »

My dragster is not so advanced and super high boost. 35-40 psi.
Fuel is methanol.
Most modern coils will do for me. I am even sure my MSD7 and the distributor even will do well for my simple application.

As for Advanced 3D ignition option, could it be that I do not have that on my older FT500?
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Frallan
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« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2021, 13:59:45 pm »

Let me re-phrase it, I take for granted I do have it, but sitting at work and having a quick look in the manual and not having the ECU connected, I do not find it.
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Christiano
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« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2021, 14:02:13 pm »

For either fuel/ignition 3D tables to come up, you have to go to you map options and change the fuel/ignition map types
Then it will try use your current map/compensation, interpolate them and create the 3D map
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Frallan
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« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2021, 05:58:45 am »

Sorry!
Help demands feedback as thank you:  My dragster starts.... barks....smells good!
I swapped the M&W for a MSD 7 AL complete with a MSD distributor.

But!  Soon to be solved too, it will not pick up revs due to low methanol fuel press.
I have a small 1 liter tank with gasoline, an electrical pump and a NOS solenoid.
This squirts gasoline in to my plenums as a prime with nozzles on each side.
It is not enough to get it to pick up more than 15-20 psi on the main fuel line.
So, I am going to retire this invention and put a "conventional" high pressure fuel pump to prime the fuel line, then shut down the electrical pump once the engine has stable pressure on the Hilborn.
Thank You Johan Haglund for sharing the details of your non return valves!!!
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Frallan
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« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2021, 06:14:53 am »

.....and Christiano, the FT500 works good.
I seem to have damaged 1-4 grey outputs and potentially something is corrupt with the #4 oil pressure input.
No other
Well, not the pressure sensor,  but with the trouble shooting done so far, it seems to be software.
The screen oil pressure is simply 0.
If I simply swap the fuel pressure plug over to the oil pressure, it show my oil pressure on the screen. (as fuel pressure)
Measuring the earth, the 5 volt and the signal input, it is identical to my fuel pressure, TPS and 5 volt to the intake air and engine temp sensors.

I also did some re-configuring on other white inputs and trying to get the oil pressure, no go. Dropped for now.

More sorting put of this next week.
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drewmon
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« Reply #115 on: June 09, 2022, 15:42:37 pm »

Hi there,
I just stumbled upon this forum looking for some Timing Map advice for my VW run by my FT550.  Its a street car, but with the following.  I'm just looking for some advice on my map (attached).   Thank you in advance. [ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

1957 Beetle:

Engine:
94x76.3 2118cc
7.5:1
EFI - Fueltech FT550
CB wedge port 44x37.5
1.25 rocker
SLR XV294 cam
DubShop 48mm single intake
DubShop crank trigger
CB injection intakes 2"
550cc inj Bosch
A1 Turbo exhaust
AGP .48 5157B turbo
Water meth inj
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #116 on: June 09, 2022, 19:24:50 pm »

You can send mail How can I send a MAP
/// Micke        vwpprmi@gmail.com
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BeetleBug
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Snabba grabben...


« Reply #117 on: July 01, 2022, 17:08:06 pm »

2000+ hp;

http://youtu.be/sb4tkakG374


Best rgs
BB
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
PPRMicke
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« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2022, 20:43:07 pm »

2000+ hp;

http://youtu.be/sb4tkakG374


Best rgs
BB

at 7bar you can get a lot of powder
Yes, it's cool Grin
/// M
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BeetleBug
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Snabba grabben...


« Reply #119 on: July 02, 2022, 08:01:23 am »

2000+ hp;

http://youtu.be/sb4tkakG374


Best rgs
BB

at 7bar you can get a lot of powder
Yes, it's cool Grin
/// M


I think it is super cool that they choose our platform as a base for their engine. Flat 4. I think that says a bit about the potential.

Take care my friend

-BB.
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10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
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