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Author Topic: Lowering then vs. now  (Read 1533 times)
Rick Meredith
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« on: January 05, 2018, 09:13:49 AM »


I was having this discussion with Henry Mayeda. When I lowered my '67 in the late 70s, I pulled all of the small springs and then pulled one large bar out of the bottom tube. No adjusters as when we did it, all that was available was the Select-a-drop and they kinda sucked. I really liked the way the car sat with this setup but the ride was pretty rough.

Now everyone is running narrowed beams with adjusters and drop spindles.

I've set up my '67 like this and I'm having all sorts of clearance issues and I'm not thrilled with the way the car looks.

I'm thinking about going to a full width beam with a full stack of large springs, no small springs, adjusters and stock spindles. Ideally, the adjusters would be set so that the high adjustment would be lower than stock and it would go down from there. I'm hoping to recreate the stance the car originally had but improve the ride with having more spings. Might even think about putting the small springs in.

Why wouldn't this work?
What are the pros and cons?
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 09:39:20 AM »

Rick

I ran the setup you are talking about for years.  I used sway-away adjusters that were preturned (Maybe a little too much) when fully out the front valance would touch the floor.  Dropped spindles were just starting to appear on the market, but they increased the track.

It was a ball joint beam, uprated roll bar, long travel ball joints and toxic shocks.  It was a fun car to drive, handled really well, but could be bumpy especially on concrete motorways.  Where even to this day i remember being memorised by my now wifes tits bouncing in time to the ruts in the road.
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 09:51:40 AM »


It was a ball joint beam, uprated roll bar, long travel ball joints and toxic shocks.  It was a fun car to drive, handled really well, but could be bumpy especially on concrete motorways.  Where even to this day i remember being memorised by my now wifes tits bouncing in time to the ruts in the road.

Priceless....
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leec
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 10:35:31 AM »

I think a 2 inch narrowed beam with dropped spindles (narrowed beam to correct added track spindles give) with adjusters is the best set up

The adjusters are then not at a silly angle, so you can fine tune the ride height without it being wound right down as you get a drop from the spindles. I did this with a 4 inch narrowed beam and it drives lovely. Shock choice will be key, I run KGB shocks from a mini.

Lee
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 12:20:28 PM »

I think if you just want to run with adjusters , shock absorber choice will be key to how it rides.
Back in the late 80's the magazine's said to fit gas shocks , when you lower the front, so I did, the ride was awful I used to watch the road ahead to avoid any pot holes or manhole covers because the car would slam over them, not nice. Oil shocks might have been better.

Dropped spindles are one of the best parts to use if you want a decent ride quality. I run them with a narrow beam and it is a vast improvement over previous set ups.
In your case if the wheels stick out too far I would narrow the beam just enough to get the wheel to sit where you want, using drop spindles.  I wouldn't think about removing springs on my car's.

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Donny B.
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 13:13:36 PM »

I am running a 2 inch narrowed (ball joint) beam with Avis adjusters and dropped welded spindles.  I needed the beam narrowed to prevent the tires from rubbing the fender lips.  I thought that was the best I could get until i replaced my KYB GR2 shocks with KONI reds.  They were  pricey but the ride is so much better...
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Don Bulitta
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 15:24:08 PM »

I ran stock width stock spindles with welded adjusters for years, with zero offset ERCO stars. Then I added disk brakes up front, those increased track width enough to cause rubbing issues when turning, even with the zero offsets. Also, the car sat low enough that I had about 1 inch of shock travel available from my Carrera 90/10s. My solution was to go with a 3 inch narrowed beam with tall shock towers and dropped spindles. Now I have plenty of room for shock travel, and my wheels fit great. I also run Gas Burners on the car now, no rub, nice tuck, with a nice stance.
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 18:13:59 PM »


It was a ball joint beam, uprated roll bar, long travel ball joints and toxic shocks.  It was a fun car to drive, handled really well, but could be bumpy especially on concrete motorways.  Where even to this day i remember being memorised by my now wifes tits bouncing in time to the ruts in the road.

Priceless....

Agreed! Wink
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 18:17:15 PM »

I think a 2 inch narrowed beam with dropped spindles (narrowed beam to correct added track spindles give) with adjusters is the best set up

The adjusters are then not at a silly angle, so you can fine tune the ride height without it being wound right down as you get a drop from the spindles. I did this with a 4 inch narrowed beam and it drives lovely. Shock choice will be key, I run KGB shocks from a mini.

Lee

Agree that the current setup would ride better but it just doesn't look "right." to me. I like how the trailing arms pull the wheels forward in the wheel wells with the older set up.

Plus, I'm having to run 1" spacers just to get the wheels to clear the ball-joints.
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 18:22:54 PM »

I think if you just want to run with adjusters , shock absorber choice will be key to how it rides.
Back in the late 80's the magazine's said to fit gas shocks , when you lower the front, so I did, the ride was awful I used to watch the road ahead to avoid any pot holes or manhole covers because the car would slam over them, not nice. Oil shocks might have been better.

Dropped spindles are one of the best parts to use if you want a decent ride quality. I run them with a narrow beam and it is a vast improvement over previous set ups.
In your case if the wheels stick out too far I would narrow the beam just enough to get the wheel to sit where you want, using drop spindles.  I wouldn't think about removing springs on my car's.



We knew that the gas shock thing was wrong. I ran Monroe blues from an Opel Kadett. Just had to push the sleeves out of the bottom and replace them with ones from the VW.

The clearance issue I'm having is that the wheels don't clear the ball-joints when under deflection. It hits to the point where you can't even push the car.
I'm going to have to run 1" spacers to get them to clear.
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 18:24:13 PM »

I am running a 2 inch narrowed (ball joint) beam with Avis adjusters and dropped welded spindles.  I needed the beam narrowed to prevent the tires from rubbing the fender lips.  I thought that was the best I could get until i replaced my KYB GR2 shocks with KONI reds.  They were  pricey but the ride is so much better...

Stock length shocks Donny?
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 18:25:42 PM »

I ran stock width stock spindles with welded adjusters for years, with zero offset ERCO stars. Then I added disk brakes up front, those increased track width enough to cause rubbing issues when turning, even with the zero offsets. Also, the car sat low enough that I had about 1 inch of shock travel available from my Carrera 90/10s. My solution was to go with a 3 inch narrowed beam with tall shock towers and dropped spindles. Now I have plenty of room for shock travel, and my wheels fit great. I also run Gas Burners on the car now, no rub, nice tuck, with a nice stance.

Thanks... good information.
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Andy
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 20:40:18 PM »





The clearance issue I'm having is that the wheels don't clear the ball-joints when under deflection. It hits to the point where you can't even push the car.
I'm going to have to run 1" spacers to get them to clear.

To fix this problem you can cut the lower taper deeper in the stub axle so the ball joint goes in further and  moves away from the rim, I did mine years ago and have not had a problem.. a taper reamer should do the job.
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Neil Davies
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 20:56:31 PM »

I think a 2 inch narrowed beam with dropped spindles (narrowed beam to correct added track spindles give) with adjusters is the best set up

The adjusters are then not at a silly angle, so you can fine tune the ride height without it being wound right down as you get a drop from the spindles. I did this with a 4 inch narrowed beam and it drives lovely. Shock choice will be key, I run KGB shocks from a mini.

Lee


Agree that the current setup would ride better but it just doesn't look "right." to me. I like how the trailing arms pull the wheels forward in the wheel wells with the older set up.

Plus, I'm having to run 1" spacers just to get the wheels to clear the ball-joints.

How about three sets of caster shims? Two at the bottom, one at the top? Pushes the whole beam forward to get the look but still allows you to run dropped spindles.

My car has stock spindles, stock oils shocks with the big bumpstop removed from the top and swayaway adjusters in both tubes. Wheels are early Flat Four BRMs with 145's.

See if this works:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_madwelshman/38803565091/in/album-72157687993972632/
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 21:02:52 PM by Neil Davies » Logged

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Donny B.
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 21:29:51 PM »

Quote
Stock length shocks Donny?

Yes stock length...! Works great...
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Don Bulitta
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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 21:35:27 PM »

How about three sets of caster shims? Two at the bottom, one at the top? Pushes the whole beam forward to get the look but still allows you to run dropped spindles.

My car has stock spindles, stock oils shocks with the big bumpstop removed from the top and swayaway adjusters in both tubes. Wheels are early Flat Four BRMs with 145's.

See if this works:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_madwelshman/38803565091/in/album-72157687993972632/


Neil do you have drum or disks up front?

Cheers
Marc
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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2018, 23:07:43 PM »

forgot that I also had caster shims x 2 just in the bottom.  I ran 4.5" wide rims with 145's. 
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2018, 23:10:35 PM »

Marc, I'm on stock 5-bolt '66/'67 drums on the front. The back has some generic 5-bolt ones with late backing plates and shoes, on '66 short axles. Pattern wings on the back are rubbish tho. Fronts are some fibreglass ones I picked up years ago. Just one set of caster shims too.
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 00:07:55 AM »

. . . . it just doesn't look "right." to me. I like how the trailing arms pull the wheels forward in the wheel wells with the older set up.
Totally agree with ya Rick! That's the main reason I do not like drop spindles!!!!
Turn it full lock and the wheel moves into the rear of the fender . . . probably worse if ya put spacers behind the wheel.
I am willing to make the sacrifice . . . giving up a little ride-quality for the "LOOK"!

FWIW . . . currently I'm driving a '62 ragtop . . . up front, Porsche 6" alloys, 155-60r15, stock spindles and all torsion leaves w/two adjusters, KYB GR-2, trimmed bump-stop . . . rides fine for me and it's low enough also.

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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2018, 21:57:17 PM »



Hmmm... that's an interesting idea.



The clearance issue I'm having is that the wheels don't clear the ball-joints when under deflection. It hits to the point where you can't even push the car.
I'm going to have to run 1" spacers to get them to clear.

To fix this problem you can cut the lower taper deeper in the stub axle so the ball joint goes in further and  moves away from the rim, I did mine years ago and have not had a problem.. a taper reamer should do the job.
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2018, 22:01:45 PM »

. . . . it just doesn't look "right." to me. I like how the trailing arms pull the wheels forward in the wheel wells with the older set up.
Totally agree with ya Rick! That's the main reason I do not like drop spindles!!!!
Turn it full lock and the wheel moves into the rear of the fender . . . probably worse if ya put spacers behind the wheel.
I am willing to make the sacrifice . . . giving up a little ride-quality for the "LOOK"!

FWIW . . . currently I'm driving a '62 ragtop . . . up front, Porsche 6" alloys, 155-60r15, stock spindles and all torsion leaves w/two adjusters, KYB GR-2, trimmed bump-stop . . . rides fine for me and it's low enough also.



Mark! How the heck are you? We gotta get you to come down for a DKK event.

It sounds like my long-term solution will be going back to the stock beam with the KG spindles. I also like that it's part of the car's history.

Short term, I'm gonna try the 1" spacers just to get the car running. It was supposed to be running in 2017 and I mised that.
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2018, 22:15:14 PM »

Rick

I ran the setup you are talking about for years.  I used sway-away adjusters that were preturned (Maybe a little too much) when fully out the front valance would touch the floor.  Dropped spindles were just starting to appear on the market, but they increased the track.

It was a ball joint beam, uprated roll bar, long travel ball joints and toxic shocks.  It was a fun car to drive, handled really well, but could be bumpy especially on concrete motorways.  Where even to this day i remember being memorised by my now wifes tits bouncing in time to the ruts in the road.

This brought back memories of driving my old blown flat bottom Sanger V-drive boat and taking out across a light chop at about 100 to see if the new girl friend would "measure up" LOL

(She also had to be good at wiping the boat off when it was pulled out at the end of the day too)
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 14:00:19 PM »

Stock king-link-pin-axle with CSP-adjusters. Stock spindels.
BRM:  155/15 front and 185/15 rear
Centerline: 145/15 front and 205/70 rear
It all about tyres and wheels  :-)

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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 17:03:30 PM »

I have some kind of similar issue on my 57 oval. running a 2" narrowed beam with dropped spindles, but now I think it is to narrow, plus I also ordered new spring leaves. Ride is a bit bumpy and nervous (did a proper alignment), even on original tires. Tried all settings on the adjustable SPAX shocks, doesn't matter.

So want to go back to stock width beam with stock spindles  and using a https://www.red9design.co.uk/type1.htm 2"-4" kit



anyone who runs that setup and what is your experience?
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Rick Meredith
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 22:52:57 PM »

That's a interesting set up with the coils
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2018, 13:43:13 PM »

Yes, very interesting, my only concern is it now presents a single point of failure where all suspension is dependent upon the shock tower. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this system, just pointing out that on a standard setup you can loose a shock mount but not suffer a suspension collapse.

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Bewitched666
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2018, 13:46:17 PM »

In curacao back in the 80's we used to cut the front tubes and twist them a bit to lower the car and fit gas shocks and caster shims.
After that came the adjusters and now dropped spindles etc.
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kingsburgphil
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2018, 05:15:05 AM »

Back in 72', when i was young/poor. I had Aronson at F&A cut and weld the torsion bars on my 58' for $35.
5.00x15's from Pep Boys worked till i could afford 135 Michelins. A few years later I was working for them ;^)   .
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