The Cal-look Lounge
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 05, 2020, 10:44:23 am

Login with username, password and session length
Thank you for your support!
Search:     Advanced search
345128 Posts in 27589 Topics by 6459 Members
Latest Member: GSellner
* Home This Year's European Top 20 lists All Time European Top 20 lists Search Login Register
+  The Cal-look Lounge
|-+  Tyre kicking
| |-+  Off Topic
| | |-+  life begins @ 8000rpm? The Porsche 916 4-cam 911R engine
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: life begins @ 8000rpm? The Porsche 916 4-cam 911R engine  (Read 5599 times)
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« on: July 10, 2009, 20:44:15 pm »

imagine a 210hp 911R/906 Carrera motor with DOHC heads and even wilder cam timing.... the result? The 230hp @ 9000rpm 916 911-six. Deemed "too violent" by factory drivers, and project scrapped by Porsche.
But just to show what Porsche was capable of in the 1960's....   2.0 liter, Bosch mechanical plunger injection, 4 chain driven cams, and 390 deg intake cam duration. The motor was slated to go into the ultra-lightweight homologation special 911R cars (as light as 1720lb). I think Vic Elford was one driver that actually preferred the peaky powerband of the DOHC engine over the single cam version, despite him claiming "there's no real power under 6000rpm"
 Shocked

Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Tony M
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 544



« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 22:22:40 pm »

Mr. 1970 you are wealth of information. Big power from a 2.0, in a 1750lb car = FAST  Shocked Shocked Shocked
Logged

Life is too fast to drive a slow VW
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 22:37:58 pm »

 Shocked is right.

1960's Porsche engineering "fast-cinates" me.

How about the 907's flat 8? 270hp @ 9200 from 2.2L
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 23:24:16 pm »

Shocked is right.

1960's Porsche engineering "fast-cinates" me.

How about the 907's flat 8? 270hp @ 9200 from 2.2L

here's an image of the 916 911R engine (though this one has Webers on it) http://www.carculture.com/albums.php?albumId=3690

Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Tony M
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 544



« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 03:52:43 am »

What a nasty looking evil wicked Racing Engine Shocked Shocked Shocked
Logged

Life is too fast to drive a slow VW
nicolas
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3922



« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 07:38:31 am »

great post.

i have thought about all the great evolving that went on in the 60's. just look at the early 60's cars from VW and what was achieved later in the 60's (67-68) there was a 'mechanical boom' going on in that era that hasn't quite been redone in the last decades. such a fascinating era off motrorsport in general.
Logged
j-f
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1571


Jean-François


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 09:01:13 am »

great post.

i have thought about all the great evolving that went on in the 60's. just look at the early 60's cars from VW and what was achieved later in the 60's (67-68) there was a 'mechanical boom' going on in that era that hasn't quite been redone in the last decades. such a fascinating era off motrorsport in general.


I was thinking the same thing.
In that era, you can buy factory race car directly from your local dealer. Ford Falcon, Buick gsx.
Now, when you buy a car, sale arguments are consumption and ecology  Undecided Horsepower are taboo
Logged
roland
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1197


lates are the new splits...


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 12:37:16 pm »

Obviously if you wanna buy a twingo, you won't talk about hp...

But then, 911 GT2 530hp, Murcielago LP 670-4 SV 670hp, Ariel Atom V8 500hp (at 10000rpm!), Veyron 1000hp... you get the idea...
Logged

Glitter don't make you faster.
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 20:56:01 pm »

great post.

i have thought about all the great evolving that went on in the 60's. just look at the early 60's cars from VW and what was achieved later in the 60's (67-68) there was a 'mechanical boom' going on in that era that hasn't quite been redone in the last decades. such a fascinating era off motrorsport in general.


The 1960's were a magical time in my opinion @ Porsche. Small group of seasoned "old school" men of the old guard in conjunction with the fearless new engineers fresh out of engineeering, all under leadership of Dr Porsche and a young Ferdinand Piech. Some of the concepts they implented (three key primary goals: increase power, reduce weight and improve reliablility) were the results of real genius. I think the fact that Enzo made the comment that "there was no way Porsche could build a 4.5L flat twelve air cooled racing engine", and soon after was to be trounced by that very engine.... the Italians had to swallow a pretty bitter pill.
While the little 916/911R engine doesn't seem all that remarkable today, what with all of today's mega-powered (though grossly overweight) super cars, with its mere 230hp, taken in stride with its time period, and that this was based on a passenger car production 2.0L engine (air cooled!) it does sort of sum up what was going on during that era in Zuffenhausen.
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
kingsburgphil
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 877



« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 06:25:14 am »

Although working on production Porsche's filled my rice bowl for ten yrs, my real love is the Miller racing car from the 20's--40's.  Not exactly a household name nowdays, but in their time they dominated dirt, brick and board tracks.
If you like clean, purpose built race motors you'll love the work of Leo Goosen, one of the premier designers of the 20th. century. And Fred Offenhauser, machinist extraordinaire who took over when Miller went bankrupt. A great read is "The Miller Dynasty" by Mark Dees, a good companion to Excellence
was Expected!
 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 16:45:34 pm by kingsburgphil » Logged
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 23:22:21 pm »

The Offy motors are a true work of art. Love the "barrel shaped" lower block, with the "access panels" in the sides to get to rods. Somewhere I have some cool pics of Drake Offy's getting built. You're right they are a potent, and ancient piece of automotive history.

Different than the Porsche, but sort of the same too. HP per cc.
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
kingsburgphil
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 877



« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 06:17:57 am »

Thank you for appreciating the artistry of the Miller/Offy. To me the Millers, Bugatti's, Alfa's and Porsches are all like fine bottles of wine on the same rack.
All slightly different, yet all equally good in their own right. 
 
Logged
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2009, 16:16:20 pm »

Thank you for appreciating the artistry of the Miller/Offy. To me the Millers, Bugatti's, Alfa's and Porsches are all like fine bottles of wine on the same rack.
All slightly different, yet all equally good in their own right. 
 

dude we need to chat sometime. Alfa? Now you're talking. Just sat down and read old R & T article on the 1972 Montreal and it's 2.6L DOHC V8. mmmmm. Talking about a nice sounding motor.
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2009, 21:09:41 pm »

Thank you for appreciating the artistry of the Miller/Offy. To me the Millers, Bugatti's, Alfa's and Porsches are all like fine bottles of wine on the same rack.
All slightly different, yet all equally good in their own right. 
 

now let's talk 4 cam Carrera motor...  356, 550, 904 etc.  Cool
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
kingsburgphil
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 877



« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 22:33:04 pm »

Unfortunately, my hands on experience is limited to ignition/carbs on a Elva/Porsche vintage racer.
I do however have a healthy respect for the motors, in regards to cost and complexity, both of
which were and are way beyond my means.
Still they're gorgeous engines, with beautiful old world castings of questionable materials. And
they do make such wonderful sounds, all those little gears spinning..sweet music indeed.
Logged
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7114



« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2009, 22:47:41 pm »

Unfortunately, my hands on experience is limited to ignition/carbs on a Elva/Porsche vintage racer.
I do however have a healthy respect for the motors, in regards to cost and complexity, both of
which were and are way beyond my means.
Still they're gorgeous engines, with beautiful old world castings of questionable materials. And
they do make such wonderful sounds, all those little gears spinning..sweet music indeed.

I know I'll never touch the guts of a 4 cam either, but love reading about them (I have a copy of the workshop manual for the Carrea motor, can you say labor intensive  Shocked Shocked... how many shims, keyways, roller bearings, thrust washers, etc can you stuff in one motor?!) and love listening to them @ vintage races. Nothing quite sounds like them.

sometimes I think I can cruise around, hot footing it in my '67 and daydream it's a 356 Carrera GT. My goal for my motor was to develop some of the same sound and character, having it come on @ 4K+, etc.  Vroom.
Logged

DER KLEINER PANZERS

Who was fitted with collar and chain?
escape
Newbie
*
Posts: 1


« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 09:55:17 am »

rebirth of cool,
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!