How does your looker handle?

[Mangokid revival]

It's been a few years, so I kinda need some advice from you guys!

I never really quit, but this spring it was time for my comeback after 15 years of no cal-look, no racing, no nothing but motorcycles.

So, I bought myself a nice looking '67 with a SPG equipped IDA-engine of some 137 hp. A decent, ok ride, fast, hard and fun, but it scared the hell out of me when I took it to around 85-90 mph. Was THIS what it was about, back then? Still a bit shaky, I might add.

About 20-25 years ago I built my first "late looker" from a 1970 T1 1500, and came to a point where I really felt I made it handle quite well. So, my best guess is, that it didn't. It was just a few notches above what I was used to at the time. A bit later I had my first 200 hp 1961 cal-looker, 12 second strip action and a bit of fun on the road. Great car, that I still have, in bits and pieces.

As I've gotten older, and perhaps a bit wiser, I really feel the need to upgrade the handling of my recently aquired looker, but I want to keep it as period correct and authentic as possible. I got a Speedwell camber bar lying around somewhere, but that's about it. I also bought a set of Type 3 drums and I might have a sway bar on another car of mine.

So, how does your looker handle, and why?

[Eddie DVK]

What I found out is that over here no shop knows how to set up your ride with the correct camber, toe in, caster.
Had it set up correctly like 15 years ago, handled very well in corners and at high speeds on highways.
But changed stuff on beam etc... it was off then. never knew the figures and the shop did not exists anymore..
Never got the handling back like that again.

[karl h]

if you want to got stock height in back and lowered front (nothing extreme), nothing rode better than four red konis on my 67 (no big motor)
if you want really better handling in corners, there is now way around IRS

[Martin S.]

Unfortunately it seems handling with a bug depends a lot on ride height. If you’ve ever driven a bug or van with a saggy rear end and a stock front end you know what I mean. It is stable at speed. Then lower the front and raise the back and different story! You need Konis for sure.

[Mangokid revival]

I had Bilstein on my old looker. Will red Konis be an improvement or about the same?

I'm not determined to make a Porsche out of my looker, but just some small improvements here and there.

I got another one wich will be subject to the anti cal look ride height, or oposite, if you will.

[Andrew]

+1 for Koni Red's, if you can get the steering damper even better, it makes a big difference.

[Steve67]

do you have some more information about the current setup? Z bar or no z bar? tire sizes and brand? only adjustable beam or also lowered spindles?
I think a non IRS car can also handle very well with some little tweeks...

[Garrick Clark]

I've just fitted 2 pairs of caster shims to mine with to the longer bolts. Well worth doing.

[Eddie DVK]

Only fitting red koni s is not the solution, it helps a little… but that is it.

[Mangokid revival]

I would rather call the car a blank canvas. No caster shims, no upgraded shocks, no Z-bar, no HD front bar, no drop spindles, no narrowing. So, basically nothing.
It's a euro 67, so disc brakes up front, and plans for Type 3 drums rear. It is possibly a bit too low up front to my taste, but whoever did the beam, mounted the adjusters wrong, so it doesn't go any higher. Maybe I'll just get a new beam. Hard and fast cornering is not the main issue, but of course a part of the package. Fast, straight lines, though.

So on the list for now is:

Parts i got: Longer bolts for double set of caster shims, vintage Speedwell camber bar, 19 mm front sway bar

Parts to get: Caster shims, red Konis

Things to do: Toe in, caster, camber, complete setup. I haven't done that in 20 years, must be.

Something I missed? Any point in having both a Z-bar and that Speedwell camber bar together?

[Martin S.]

We were talking about rear end alignment and how it’s more important by far than front end for straight line stability.
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,31033.0.html

[Steve67]

from my opinion the following works good on my 67:
rear end lowered a tiny bit to get rid of the positive camber
flop stops
no z bar, no camber compesator or anything in the rear
dropped spindles and caster shims in the front
1 degree camber in the front
Koni Red on all 4 corners
Tires are also important, I am currently swapping the classic 185/80 and 145/80 combo for 185/70 and 165/65.
It keeps the raked look but should hande way better.

[Martin S.]

I know we use shims to get caster back that was taken away by stance, but I wonder what angle we are running. For some reason, my alignment shop did not fill out that part with their test with my bug, but for my 71 stock van it is there and shows about 2 degrees.
Maybe I should be using two shims, and who knows, as we are guessing at this point.  

Interesting about adjusting camber in the front and making it 1 degree. Test shows my car is around 0. Is it easy to adjust camber in the front, of link pin, or ball joint? Is this idea from auto-crossing where body roll in corners keeps the tire in contact in hard cornering, or does it also help in going straight at speed?

[Sarge]

Having owned/own a '69 and a '67 Bug, I really liked the IRS much better.  The '67 has no sway bars front or rear, a 2" narrowed beam, caster shims, 25mm rear torsion bars, adjustable rear spring plates, short axles, Type III rear brakes and CSP discs up front.  It rolls nice but not the car I'd pick to drive a curvy road.  The '69 was a different story; FUN!  I'm thinkin' I'm ready for a sway bar up front for the '67.

[andrewlandon67]

Having owned/own a '69 and a '67 Bug, I really liked the IRS much better.  The '67 has no sway bars front or rear, a 2" narrowed beam, caster shims, 25mm rear torsion bars, adjustable rear spring plates, short axles, Type III rear brakes and CSP discs up front.  It rolls nice but not the car I'd pick to drive a curvy road.  The '69 was a different story; FUN!  I'm thinkin' I'm ready for a sway bar up front for the '67.

How difficult is it to fit Type III rear brakes on a swingaxle bug? I went with short axles on my '67 when I put a new gearbox in it last year, and I would like to push the rear wheels out a little bit more.

I recently added a big sway bar to the front of my car, and it definitely handles better, but I'm looking at redoing most of the lowering stuff and doing away with drop spindles so I can get it to sit properly, then I'd like to add a camber compensator to the rear. Either that, or I'll move my oil cooler and re-install the stock '67 Z bar. It won't turn my car into a track weapon, but it'll at least be more stable going up some canyon roads.

[Mangokid revival]

Having owned/own a '69 and a '67 Bug, I really liked the IRS much better.  The '67 has no sway bars front or rear, a 2" narrowed beam, caster shims, 25mm rear torsion bars, adjustable rear spring plates, short axles, Type III rear brakes and CSP discs up front.  It rolls nice but not the car I'd pick to drive a curvy road.  The '69 was a different story; FUN!  I'm thinkin' I'm ready for a sway bar up front for the '67.

How difficult is it to fit Type III rear brakes on a swingaxle bug? I went with short axles on my '67 when I put a new gearbox in it last year, and I would like to push the rear wheels out a little bit more.

From what I remember, Type 3 brakes was a 100% bolt on, on my 1970 swing axle 1500 bug, and a big improvement. That car was such great fun, 1915 engine, strong and reliable, did corners better than any other VW in the "gang" at the time. I miss that car so much.

I recently bought two sets of Type 3 drums, one for my 67 and one for my 73. Can't wait to fit them. Also I'm looking for Talbot Horizon calipers to use up front.

[andrewlandon67]

Having owned/own a '69 and a '67 Bug, I really liked the IRS much better.  The '67 has no sway bars front or rear, a 2" narrowed beam, caster shims, 25mm rear torsion bars, adjustable rear spring plates, short axles, Type III rear brakes and CSP discs up front.  It rolls nice but not the car I'd pick to drive a curvy road.  The '69 was a different story; FUN!  I'm thinkin' I'm ready for a sway bar up front for the '67.

How difficult is it to fit Type III rear brakes on a swingaxle bug? I went with short axles on my '67 when I put a new gearbox in it last year, and I would like to push the rear wheels out a little bit more.

From what I remember, Type 3 brakes was a 100% bolt on, on my 1970 swing axle 1500 bug, and a big improvement. That car was such great fun, 1915 engine, strong and reliable, did corners better than any other VW in the "gang" at the time. I miss that car so much.

I recently bought two sets of Type 3 drums, one for my 67 and one for my 73. Can't wait to fit them. Also I'm looking for Talbot Horizon calipers to use up front.

I took a look around and found an article on the Rancho Transaxle website about it, it doesn't seem any different from replacing regular bug backing plates other than having the drums machined properly.

[Mangokid revival]

That's how I remember it, but go for 100% stock OEM VW-parts. I had a repro hub cracking on me during hard cornering. Not so much fun. Get original parts only!

[Andrew]

Having owned/own a '69 and a '67 Bug, I really liked the IRS much better.  The '67 has no sway bars front or rear, a 2" narrowed beam, caster shims, 25mm rear torsion bars, adjustable rear spring plates, short axles, Type III rear brakes and CSP discs up front.  It rolls nice but not the car I'd pick to drive a curvy road.  The '69 was a different story; FUN!  I'm thinkin' I'm ready for a sway bar up front for the '67.

How difficult is it to fit Type III rear brakes on a swingaxle bug? I went with short axles on my '67 when I put a new gearbox in it last year, and I would like to push the rear wheels out a little bit more.

I recently added a big sway bar to the front of my car, and it definitely handles better, but I'm looking at redoing most of the lowering stuff and doing away with drop spindles so I can get it to sit properly, then I'd like to add a camber compensator to the rear. Either that, or I'll move my oil cooler and re-install the stock '67 Z bar. It won't turn my car into a track weapon, but it'll at least be more stable going up some canyon roads.

I put front drum cylinders from the 67 on the rear, that helps if you don't fancy fitting a full Type3 setup.

I had CSP fronts and the CSP recommended master cylinder fitted first and prior to changing the rear cylinders, the brake bias was way off.