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Author Topic: Fuel injection  (Read 1536 times)
Garrick Clark
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« on: June 13, 2020, 14:08:10 pm »

Hi guys. Who would you trust to take your VW to have an injection kit fitted and tuned.
I'd like to use the Dellorto manifolds and bolt the kit onto them.
This is a turbo engine , with injection pump already fitted, reg would need changing for a different spec.
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richie
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2020, 16:26:54 pm »

What are you using for tops of carbs at moment? would CBs throttle bodies be direct replacement? so then no physical fabrication just EFi conversion?
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2020, 17:31:09 pm »

I've got the CB hats , dell carb top bases, csp linkage 
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2020, 17:40:14 pm »

This might be a job for you yet Richie..
I got csp 40mm dell manifolds. Water nozzles up high in the manifolds. Would it be a straight forward job for you this .
Gunna comp test all 4 tomorrow just to see if the thing isn't tricking me. I did remember just earlier that I also forgot I had the water spray set
to come on at zero psi and to be full psi output from the pump.Probably why it was hunting and bucking like a good n.
There is a few dell fitment injector bodies available. Jenvey have some.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 19:08:03 pm by Garrick Clark » Logged

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richie
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2020, 21:05:57 pm »

Reasonably straight forward to convert, not sure if your cb stuff will fit on top of jenveys or not, havent tried that combo myself.


I wouldn't be switching the water/meth on until about 9spi myself 
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Garrick Clark
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Posts: 432


« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2020, 21:28:39 pm »

Yeah, I had it on too soon. Didn't realise till a few
Hours after stepping away from it. DOH.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 21:41:15 pm by Garrick Clark » Logged

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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2020, 11:25:00 am »

Just notice that lifting number 2 lead off the cap no spark jumps from the lead to the cap at less than 1/4 gap. The other 3 do. Ffs
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 16:55:59 pm by Garrick Clark » Logged

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PPRMicke
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2020, 14:29:52 pm »

There is a part that the water can do
Like it gets incorrect AFR value
/// Micke
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2020, 16:58:48 pm »

I've only got the 1 nozzle working at moment. Its piped into the inlet manifold that feeds the 4 cylinders.
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2020, 17:31:02 pm »

I've only got the 1 nozzle working at moment. Its piped into the inlet manifold that feeds the 4 cylinders.

if you have one or four you get the wrong value of the mixture (AFR) But if you measure Lambda it is the right value
Many have burned pistons due to water injection
why don't you put a map when there is charge pressure to avoid detonations
/// Micke
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richie
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2020, 18:04:07 pm »

I've only got the 1 nozzle working at moment. Its piped into the inlet manifold that feeds the 4 cylinders.

if you have one or four you get the wrong value of the mixture (AFR) But if you measure Lambda it is the right value
Many have burned pistons due to water injection
why don't you put a map when there is charge pressure to avoid detonations
/// Micke

Micke, it has dellortos on it at moment not EFi
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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
PPRMicke
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2020, 20:26:58 pm »

I've only got the 1 nozzle working at moment. Its piped into the inlet manifold that feeds the 4 cylinders.

if you have one or four you get the wrong value of the mixture (AFR) But if you measure Lambda it is the right value
Many have burned pistons due to water injection
why don't you put a map when there is charge pressure to avoid detonations
/// Micke

Micke, it has dellortos on it at moment not EFi

then it is another problem if you try to find the right nozzle for the carburetors if you use water
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2020, 16:38:41 pm »

I do have 4 X devils own number 1 nozzles ,1 for each cylinder. These are sized for a 96 mm piston. I could re plumb them real quick. But it's fueling thats the problem. I've been a carb man for years. Only some types of carb are better than others . Dells are not simple enough to get working right. I've put my 2 inch variable vent SU back on and its better but won't be like a proper injection kit.
So as it is now I'm still using dell manifolds with
my  2 horizontal adapter pipes fitted.2 X 90 degree elbows , a horizontal link pipe and an SU in the middle, still blow through. Why is injection so expensive, it's not like it's a new thing that's been invented is it .lol
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2020, 18:45:51 pm »

I do have 4 X devils own number 1 nozzles ,1 for each cylinder. These are sized for a 96 mm piston. I could re plumb them real quick. But it's fueling thats the problem. I've been a carb man for years. Only some types of carb are better than others . Dells are not simple enough to get working right. I've put my 2 inch variable vent SU back on and its better but won't be like a proper injection kit.
So as it is now I'm still using dell manifolds with
my  2 horizontal adapter pipes fitted.2 X 90 degree elbows , a horizontal link pipe and an SU in the middle, still blow through. Why is injection so expensive, it's not like it's a new thing that's been invented is it .lol

Tips on two good systems
 https://www.fueltech.net/products/ft550-efi-system      https://www.fueltech.net/products/ft550lite-sfi-system 
   https://www.maxxecu.com/products/sport (This is very good price and very easy to work in
///Micke
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 23:58:11 pm »

Yeah. I do like the look of that.The price is about as low as it's going to get isn't it.
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richie
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2020, 07:31:13 am »


 Why is injection so expensive, it's not like it's a new thing that's been invented is it .lol


The old stuff is cheap, but mostly rubbish, i got one car with a 20 year old dta set up on it, its probably only worth about 200 all in now so more useful to me than selling it as its still 1000 times better than carbs Grin Cheesy

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Cars are supposed to be driven, not just talked about!!!   


Good parts might be expensive but good advice is priceless Wink
Garrick Clark
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Posts: 432


« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2020, 09:14:40 am »

 Cheesy. well if I can't get it summat like I know what I have to do.
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spoolin70
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2020, 09:28:22 am »

Morning Garrick

I swapped from Dellorto to Jenvey a few years ago and have been trying to remember all the details.

I got all the parts from JMR - John Mayer (is he still in business  Huh).  The majority was bolt on but I do remember the throttle bodies were slightly shorter than the carbs. No problem for a first install but I already had turbo pipework and chargecooler in place and there wasn't room to drop the link pipe. Ended up welding a thick piece of aluminium to each base plate to raise them 20 or so mm to bring the top hats back to the correct height.

A little agricultural but once polished, hardly noticeable  Cheesy

The CB hex linkage arms wouldn't work with the jenveys either but they sell a half moon adaptor with holes in that we welded on also.

Depending on size of your engine you should note the injector position. Mine were outboard, so next to inner wing but were Pico injectors so relatively short so clearance was fine.

Also removed the MSD distributor and went to wasted spark. Berg pulley was machined for trigger wheel pickup (not bolted on).

Regarding ECU, I'm sure Fueltech works great but if your not planning on mapping it, I'd find and speak to your chosen mapper first. If he's never used Fueltech or whichever you choose, it could make the process longer and more expensive. Also, look at the features your paying for, do you need to control 16 injectors and 8 coilpacks or can you use a lesser (cheaper) model. Motec, Maxxecu, Haltech, DTA, Link etc etc all have their fans and Instagram heroes and all can be made to work but are you fitting and forgetting or constantly adjusting ? I had a DTA ex48 - old and basic by today's standards but worked fine and done everything I wanted plus UK support and forum. I have an omex now. Again perhaps a bit basic (no pretty lights or flashing buttons) but I could pick up the phone and speak direct to omex without worry of time difference or language barrier and send it direct to them for testing/calibration/firmware upgrade.

Good luck
Darren
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Eddie
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2020, 11:26:40 am »

Always wondered why the British people never speak off Omex, all the ford, kitcars like lotus sevens use a lot off Omex stuff.
Very simple and not to expensive, also most of the times including cable tree, if you give them a call.

Two off my mates have alfa 75 twinspark engines in their GT juniors with Omex ECU s, very easy to adjust.
I am also looking in to that direction.

Regards Eddie
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Regards Edgar

" Type 4, it is a completely different engine. You have to drive one to understand! "
Garrick Clark
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Posts: 432


« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2020, 12:00:50 pm »

I do have the omex 2 step . I'll do some home work on them as well as the others above
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 19:56:22 pm by Garrick Clark » Logged

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brewsy
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2020, 14:03:00 pm »

Always wondered why the British people never speak off Omex, all the ford, kitcars like lotus sevens use a lot off Omex stuff.
Very simple and not to expensive, also most of the times including cable tree, if you give them a call.

Regards Eddie

I'm not a FI vendor and am a Brit but thats the first Ive ever heard of Omex!
Certainly the pricing seems OK..
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spoolin70
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2020, 17:06:29 pm »

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2020, 15:09:04 pm »

Looks promising
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Garrick Clark
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Posts: 432


« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2020, 20:50:04 pm »

I see lime bug sells 40mm throttle bodies  with injector ports for dell manifolds.
This way I can use my linkage and top hats.

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spoolin70
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« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2020, 10:12:38 am »

Or

https://store.jenvey.co.uk/throttle-bodies-and-components/throttle-bodies/twin-bodies-idf-style/tbody-pair-idf-40-50mm-tfp40-50

Check the drawing though  Wink
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MegaRookie
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2020, 14:41:08 pm »

Maybe nice to also checkout the VW speedshop throttlebodies. They also mount directly onto the idf/dlra pattern and can also be used with your top hats with the filter adapter option Cheesy

https://vwspeedshop.com/product.php?productid=16821&cat=395&page=1
 
Mark
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Garrick Clark
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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2020, 14:49:13 pm »

hard to choose really. The VW speed shop ones look better.
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PPRMicke
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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2020, 16:36:48 pm »

You can buy from Sweden 
 129.54 x 2
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/spjallhus-45mm-idf.html
/// M
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Garrick Clark
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Posts: 432


« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2020, 19:21:31 pm »

Yeah that's a good price. So once the throttle bodies in place what  is a common ECU to use that can self tune
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Arnoud
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« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2020, 20:41:56 pm »

Micke:those are the FAJS ones right?Do you have experience with them?Are they any good?

Cheers,Arnoud
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