EV hysteria & Cal look

[wolfswest]

Hi,

Mg’s last post about converting your looker to battery power in Shane’s “making my way back” topic got me further thinking.  Here on the lounge are guys from all over the world, I was wondering how are you guys experiencing the upcoming EV car hysteria?  Yes, Hysteria with a capitol H.  Just a couple of years ago life was pretty good concerning our hobby.  I could take out a classic ride on a sunny day and people would give me the thumbs up, ask questions at the gas station, tell stories that their father used to have a car,moped, bike whatever like this and the general vibe was good and friendly.  Smiling faces everywhere.

Couple of years ago the first tesla’s started to pop up, I thought it was poseur hype for the rich people, the entrepreneurs of this world… Something like a flashy pair of jeans, it will fade before we know it.  Just 5-6 years later many car brands are ending their classic combustion car productions and going hybrid or full EV.  I live in Belgium, the media & government are really but I mean REALLY pushing the EV car route.  I have the luck of owning a company lease car, next year I have to choose I new one.  Last week we got a briefing from our fleet department: EV is the norm, if you go another route you will be penalised with unrealistic fees that you have to cough up yourself.  I hate this but I guess it’s the future.

But what’s really bothering me is that everyone over here gets brainwashed with the EV hype, the mass follows like zombies and everything from the past is suddenly bad, extreme bad and polluting.  It’s crazy how the vibe is changing fast.  Now, when I pull up to the gas station they look at me like I’m a maniac, I’m single handedly ruining the planet, killing children, trees and the future.  I’m worse then a serial killer for f*ck sake. 

Yesterday somebody posted a video in a whatsapp chat group with work colleagues of a guy drifting with a 930 turbo through a parking lot, highly skilled.  A couple of years ago everybody would say, that dude is skilled, wow what a nice Porsche, sweet engine, nice sound.  Now we get comments like: How much CO is that asshole producing?  Please scrap that old car, it’s killing our environment.  It's loud, why can't it be silent like a good EV car, etc...

It’s just the start, it’s only getting “worse”, depends how you look at it I suppose?  On the other hand prices of classics are going through the roof.  Prices of a “pretty normal Porsche 911SC” with high production numbers still are climbing like crazy.  Why?  Petrolicious and bringatrailer hype?  I would think prices should come down due to the EV hysteria but it’s not.  Mixed feelings for sure.

So I was wondering how you guys experience the changing automotive world wherever you are?  How’s Cali?  Sweden, Norway?  What’s your opinion?  Will Cal look with IDA’s or any other form of classic car ownership survive?  I hope so…  I always thought that automotive history was a sure shot but I'm not sure anymore.  To be honest, I'm scared.

Dem

[Olaf A./DFL]

It's also changing in germany - but by far not as agressive as it seems like in belgium. People still love old cars around here - especially all the old VWs.

Times definetly are changing and no one can say how long we are allowed to use our cars on the streets and when they will be banned from the inner citys - that's why I'm telling everyone I know who's into this hobby - take your car out and drive as often as you can - build memories -take pictures and enjoy! It is probably not the best time to start another long time project…

[Andrew]

Spot on, Hysteria and  Hype.

EV battery packs are not currently environmentally friendly, far from it.

The amount of energy consumed in a car's working life is fractional compared to it's total life (most of the energy used is when building the them). Much better for the environment to run a classic than buy a new EV every few years.

The car manufacturers are not helping, they see this as a once-in-a-career opportunity to refresh the world's fleet completely in a very short space of time - much better for the shareholders (and the execs) than the replacement of a small proportion of the fleet each year.

Remember when a trip to the local waste recycling center and you would see a pile of (most working) old style CRT TV's in a corner waiting to be recycled cos everyone wanted a flat screen TV, that's what the car manufactures would like to see, just with EVs.

[Martin S.]

Last car show I was at someone trailered in a 78 Bus that was VW factory electric powered. Trippy! 

[Bruce]

Just read an article about a survey of current EV car owners in California.  A full 20% said they're dumping the EV and going back to a fuel burner.  Many can't access a charger with more than 120VAC output, and it takes days to get a full charge. One guy reported that one hour of charge got him only 5km of range. Even with a 240VAC charger, it takes many hours to charge enough to match the distances driven by people in Cali.

My current driver is a stone stock 74 1300.  I've already got the come-back for when someone criticizes me for driving an old car: The most environmentally friendly car is the continued use of an existing car.  Unfortunately, the average person has no clue about how much CO2 is released by an old car.  They don't know that it's only related to the quantity of fuel burned, not the age the car.

Copper is at an all time record high, breaking $10,000 per tonne.  And it's not going to stop there.  A typical fuel burner will have around 20-25kg of copper in the entire car.  An EV, almost 100kg!

[Martin S.]

EV has their applications. I can see it with commercial vehicles, like delivery, transit, etc., where the use is predictable. Charging overnight, and next shift is covered, and repeat. With covid and so many people getting delivery, there are so many electric bicycles and scooters being used it makes sense. Charge it overnight and good for a bunch of deliveries the next day. And overnight power generation is surplus power, especially with nuclear like around here, so might as well use that excess power overnight.
But for individuals, having an EV as your only car does not make sense. I'd like a bug converted to electric and drive that 10km to work, plug it in, and drive home, now that makes sense!

[Garrick Clark]

I was watching a guy on you tube, he's converted his type 2 bus.
It's cost 25,000 dollars to do.
That's a lot of money.
It needs to be a lot cheaper to get me to do it.

[andrewlandon67]

Just read an article about a survey of current EV car owners in California.  A full 20% said they're dumping the EV and going back to a fuel burner.  Many can't access a charger with more than 120VAC output, and it takes days to get a full charge. One guy reported that one hour of charge got him only 5km of range. Even with a 240VAC charger, it takes many hours to charge enough to match the distances driven by people in Cali.

My current driver is a stone stock 74 1300.  I've already got the come-back for when someone criticizes me for driving an old car: The most environmentally friendly car is the continued use of an existing car.  Unfortunately, the average person has no clue about how much CO2 is released by an old car.  They don't know that it's only related to the quantity of fuel burned, not the age the car.

Copper is at an all time record high, breaking $10,000 per tonne.  And it's not going to stop there.  A typical fuel burner will have around 20-25kg of copper in the entire car.  An EV, almost 100kg!

I think the biggest issue, especially here in the States, is that almost our entire infrastructure is based around cars. Back east in the older, smaller states, they have good public transportation systems in-place, and the cities don't sprawl like they do here out west. I know people who commute 50-100 miles PER DAY, and that sort of lifestyle is almost encouraged in some parts of our society, so unless we get the quick charging figured out, or bring our public transportation infrastructure into the 20th century (I know what I said, it's THAT BAD,) EVs are still going to be a fad for much of our country.

As far as emissions go, I think people's biggest issue with old vs new cars is the huge reduction in smog since the introduction of catalytic converters. Even in the '90s when I was growing up, Denver had a massive smog issue, with a huge brown cloud always sitting over the city, giving people breathing issues and such. They may or may not know about the CO2, but most people likely remember at least some of those issues, and the cool pollutants that went with them.