New topic # 2: wimping down a car to sell it.

[Jim Ratto]

the post about Rick M's turquoise '67 that was sold with milder motor and trans got me going...

WTF do people sell cars with watered down powertrains? and WTF do people buy them that way? I mean, c'mon, the most fun about a real hot rod Cal Look VW is the hp under the deck and the ability to go eat "performance cars" alive. Why make a poser car? Why buy a poser car? If I were to buy some famous fast street car, you bet your ass I'd want it to be able to live up to its reputation. I wouldn't want to make excuses about why it wouldn't cook the tires off anymore.

[louisb]

As far as buying I dont think it is any different than some guy with big n littles, berg shifter, performance seats etc with a stock power plant. All show, no go.  As for the seller it sounds like some people are trying to sell a car on it's reputation and make some money by including lesser engine & tranny components. Its like all these cars you see being featured in a mag and the very next month the car is up for sale on the Samba.

--louis

[Jim Ratto]

As far as buying I dont think it is any different than some guy with big n littles, berg shifter, performance seats etc with a stock power plant. All show, no go.  As for the seller it sounds like some people are trying to sell a car on it's reputation and make some money by including lesser engine & tranny components. Its like all these cars you see being featured in a mag and the very next month the car is up for sale on the Samba.

--louis

 

I agree man, it's lame.

[rebel]

Well, maybe people sell them with other engines, cause they've got too much used to THAT engine and do not want to get rid of it. In the meaning of - new car, but tha same engine, I guess. Besides building another engine is coming through the hell and back again Well, at least it's my expirience

[Matt H]

Well I just loaded my car on a semi with a big 2 litre, 48's , close ratio gearbox etc. I dont think the new owner will mind the performance upgrades

[Donny B.]

Rick is a personal friend of mine and I watched him go through the selling of his car.  He first tried to sell it as is with the 2110 and Neal disks in the front.  He didn't get any bites at the time.  Most people thought he was asking too much.  I think he wanted $14k at the time.  With the mild 1776 and drums all the way around and some of the gages swapped out in the dash he got $8500 for it.  It was bought by another friend and former co-worker of mine.  The color bye the way is VW Bold Carribbean Teal.  It was a EuroVan color.  Many times I have thought about selling my car however I would sell it in it's original configuration with the 5-speed and Porsche brakes.  I have no idea what something like that is worth in todays market.  I do know that it needs fresh paint and the interior freshened up as well. 

[louisb]

What is he up too these days? He have a new car?

--louis

[Donny B.]

Rick seems to go through a car or two a year.  He gets them done or close then moves them for the next project.  I think his problem is that he hast too many projects and the resources for most of them.

[louisb]

lol, you should point him to the lounge some time.

--louis

[Donny B.]

lol, you should point him to the lounge some time.

I already did so maybe he will chime in on this.

[The Ideaman]

the post about Rick M's turquoise '67 that was sold with milder motor and trans got me going...

WTF do people sell cars with watered down powertrains? and WTF do people buy them that way? I mean, c'mon, the most fun about a real hot rod Cal Look VW is the hp under the deck and the ability to go eat "performance cars" alive. Why make a poser car? Why buy a poser car? If I were to buy some famous fast street car, you bet your ass I'd want it to be able to live up to its reputation. I wouldn't want to make excuses about why it wouldn't cook the tires off anymore.

Wow, that's harsh.  Suppose one can't afford the car with the drivetrain, but still want the ca  Or it is purchased for daughter, wife, Mom or son who wouldn't appreciate a snarling 2L.  Maybe you have your own drivetrain.  I disagree with you.  Busting on Rick for something he did 10 years ago sucks. 

[Jim Ratto]

I'm not busting Rick's chops. I just think selling/buying a car (in anybody's case) with a diluted motor but with the look and reputation of being a "fast" car is kinda silly. Imagine Dave Mason's black car running around with a 1776 Kadron motor. If a guy wants a car, he should want the car.

[Jim Ratto]

I'm not busting Rick's chops. I just think selling/buying a car (in anybody's case) with a diluted motor but with the look and reputation of being a "fast" car is kinda silly. Imagine Dave Mason's black car running around with a 1776 Kadron motor. If a guy wants a car, he should want the car.

Let me clarify. I think it sucks that the buyers hem and haw over wanting the car, but not wanting the "high strung" motor. So many of the top notch Cal Look cars were built around having a 2000cc + engine, and to castrate them by yanking the big motor out is too bad. I'm more chomping on the buyers. It is too bad Rick couldn't find a buyer that wanted his car as is....
To me buying a car based on "looks alone" is like dating or marrying a chick on looks alone. she may suck at cooking or with kids or just be a bore, but she makes a good trophy wife.
I'm a firm believer that cars develop a soul. The soul is made up of how the car drives and looks. Disrupt part of that formula and it's all over. Kind of like getting a lobotomy. I didn't mean Rick sucks for selling the car that way. It sucks that he had to do that.

[louisb]

I agree with Jim. The engine is part of the soul and character of the car.

--louis

[Jim Ratto]

I agree with Jim. The engine is part of the soul and character of the car.

--louis

.....most importantly....so is the owner.

[louisb]

I think that depends on the car, what roll the owner has in building/maintaining the car etc. It gets back to the builder vs the caretaker type of owner. While some owners have a significant impact on the character of their car, others have almost none. (And in some cases that is appropriate.) And some have a detrimental effect on the car. (Bergler)

So how about an owner that takes a well known car, and completely changes it, so it has a new character. (For better or worse)

It also gets back to the character and nature of a Cal-look car. Really, if you break it all down to its basics, and get rid of a lot of the nonsense, it comes down to the engine. You can't have a cal-looker with a stock engine. You can however have brms, single color paint, 48 idas and not have a cal-look car.

--louis

[Donny B.]

And some have a detrimental effect on the car. (Bergler)

I am no longer close to Rick Zavala and he takes a lot of heat because of what has transpired with the car.  Some of that may be deserved, but he has suffered greatly with health issues and loss of work.  He can be a great guy.  The car isn't what it used to be, but for a long time he kept it well and had it serviced when stuff went bad.  When he lost the resources to do that he just had to make do.  If you had such a car and didn't want to get rid of it you might do the same.  He cherished that car and I know that he never wanted to get rid of it.  It's a sad thing, but losing a job can have a big impact.  I know this personally as do many of you out there.  I don't want to paint myself into a corner on this, but few know the whole story.  I know I don't.  At least we can put some of this in perspective. 

My car is no where near as nice as it was when it appeared in Hot VWs.  Since that time I have put over 100k miles on it.  The paint is dull the carpet is suffering and the headliner needs to be replaced.  The seats just look old now.  It was so pretty when I got it done in '95.  Today I don't have the resources to take it back to where it was.  I wish I did.  Heck a few months ago a shelf in the garage and about 10 years of Hot VWs and some stray VW Porsche magazines fell and dented the drivers side front fender.  I don't want to fix that until I can afford to paint the whole car.  So now it sits kinda rough, but I still love it.  Things don't stay new forever especially if you use them.

I do know that Rick Mortensen had planned on using the 2110 in another car.  I honestly don't know if he ever did or if he sold it.  There was a time when he was selling off a lot of his VW stash.  That was just before he moved across town.

Sorry for the long post.

[louisb]

I think the wear and tear of your car is part of its personality and character. It comes from your continued use of the car. It may not have been as shiny as it was in '95 but then it probably didn't have the history either.

I don't know the whole story of Zavala either, but you can not argue that the car has gone down hill in his care. Whether that was intentional or not is probably another story. But would you want to own the Bergler with a 1500cc engine in it instead of the Berg 2 liter that is in there now? No, because it wouldn't be the same car. (Not saying Zavala is doing this, just an example.)

--louis

[The She Bee]

I think buying a car with a big motor is a plus, looks aren't everything the whole point of owning a car or anything is putting ideas and talent into. you want the car to be your own not someone elses. If the car has a 2.0L+ whats the big deal. A new beetle has a 2.0l or 1.8T. would you take it to the dealer and have them swap it out for another motor, i don't thinks so.

[Bewitched666]

I can follow all of the stories here and agree with most of them.
Thank god i sold all of my cars as they were build and all of the cars i bought i wanted them how there were.

I was glad that Jack S sold his Pro stocker(Ex Jay Cee car) with the engine he ran it with years ago,still have fun with it
although i'm planning to go bigger