Small powerhouses and old school

[Udo]

Was nice to see you at Bitburg and thanks for the kind words . We love that track

Udo

[speedwell]

peter's car at das drag day last year

[1946vw]

[ Attachment: You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[66Riveria]

https://www.facebook.com/brian.hyerstay/videos/918293311649241/

[BeetleBug]

https://www.facebook.com/brian.hyerstay/videos/918293311649241/

WOW! I just love the beautiful sound of a high reving mouse engine. Thank you for sharing.

-BB-

[RobbyKo]

Hey guys,
love this amazing thread since years.
Unfortunately not much in 2016.
What about Phase II for Peters car etc.?
Planning to build my one mouse with 1776cc this year
Regards Robert

[RobbyKo]

Hello mouse engine fans,

so nothing else is going on here for a Long time

So I will start my 1776cc project and I am looking forward to your comments  :

- new AS 41 case
- DPR 69mm counterweighted and 8 doweled VW crank
- JPS light flywheel 3,4kg with Kennedy stage II clutch
- lightened and shotpeened Type 1 rods
- lightened Mahle forged Pistons 90,5 mm and 34mm compression height
- shortened Mahle GG barrrels
- Lightened wrist pins, maybe JPS ones
- CB´s 044 Wedge ported heads with stainless steel 42mm inlet valves, 37,5mm exhaust valves
- Compression hopefully at 11,5 :1 or 12:1
- Udo Becker 60g light weight lifters
- JPS light aluminum tapered pushrods
- JPM 1:1,55 Rockers
- JPM double Ortevea75 springs
- FK 10 I already have (or JPM Special grind)
- 48 IDF´s for they look more like in Germany (historicly) streetlegal 40mm IDF´s

It all has to get a historic licence plate here in Germany for my ´70 Karmann Ghia I own since ´80 and which was my first car. which might be a challenge

So hope you have some comments !?!........

Greez Robby

[Erlend / bug66]

You can surely go bigger cam than a FK10?

Web86C (or equivalent) or bigger! 

[wph]

With those rockers he's not too far off. Never overcam an engine...

[RobbyKo]

@wph: Yes, this is the idea, to get a more smooth ramp up at the cam, with light valvetrain (also titanium retainers), but get the valve lift with the rockers.
           So I think FK10 should work with 1776 cc to get a good reving mouse.
           At least there should remain some drivebility for street use aswell as sometimes in hilly surrounding.

          Like that wild like a bike reving JPM 1603cc mouse. Johannes used there a split FK45/44.           
           
Any other ideas ? 

Robby

[Torben Alstrup]

IMHO wedge ports with 42x 38 mm valves have way too much port wolume for the displacement. Go mini Wedge instead. Much better.

T

[RobbyKo]

Hello Torben,
you may be right, but at least I already have some CB wedge ports with 42/37,5 mm valves.
I once bought them to built a 2,0 Liter engine and then I got so amazed by that thread here, that I made up my mind.

So I thought about the formular Johannes posted for his 1603 cc earlier in this thread:

- 0,88 x valve dia 0,88x40=35,2mm >>  0,88x42=36,96    so I will meassure at first the smallest port dia ...
- RPM calculation:3300000x35,2x35,2/86x86x69=8012rpm for the 1603cc mouse >> RPM calculation:3300000x36,96x36,96/86x86x69=7977rpm...not sure if this will be possible with that cam.

Combustion chamber like the 1603ccc ones,  welded and machined to the ´´B-form``to get high compression.
I think this might be the same at Peter Shattoks 1776cc with JPM MS250 heads and big vlaves and short 64mm stroke.

So I´m just curious if this will work.
Greez Robby



      

[RobbyKo]

Sorry right calculation but wrong writing...
 
RPM calculation:3300000x36,96x36,96/90,5x90,5x69=7977rpm.

[modnrod]

Those calcs are for a set of heads "not-of-this-world" prepared by Vulcan himself (Hi Johannes! Only joking man!), which means that to be of any use take at least 10-15% out of the airspeed, then at least 1/2 point out of the mech efficiency, etc, etc, etc.

So really, ignore them completely, and just build the engine.

While you're out there having fun with heads that are too big (soft, then suddenly pulls like a train), carbs that are too big (fluffy, spits and farts, then.....just.......goes!), cams that are too small (instant stomp NOW in traffic), I'm sitting here looking at my collection of the perfect parts for the perfect engine I've always wanted to try out, wondering if I will ever get the time to even turn over that perfectly balanced crankshaft.

Just build it. Have fun. That way you know what parts to get to make it better, not what the calcs say.........
Oh, I want a sound clip at least please, a vid is better.
 

[RobbyKo]

Hi modnrod,
you´re right.
I am now  thinking for years, maybe as you, about the perfect engine I want to build for my Karmann project.
Over the past years I have gathered parts to build minimum three engines.

O.k. !!! So now I will start to build this engine for I think it was the essence I´ve got out of this thread here.

I´ll keep you all posted.
Robby

[slowlearner]

I've been lusting over this thread for years now. I think its so cool what others have been doing. 

Here's the thing. I've got a circa 66 sp 1300 sitting in my shed. It was going to go in my car with a supercharger some years back,  but that's not happened coz I did something different. What I'm wondering is if I could do something silly with it.... on the cheap.

A couple of questions...

I've got some manton moly pushrods and AA 1.25 ratio rockers. I could use them right?

Johannas came up with some way of balancing his 1603 crank without counter weights. How?

And yes I'd want to keep the SP heads.  I  told you it was silly.

[slowlearner]

Just read back through the thread... answered most of the questions.

Turns out there are some pretty crazy pistons available in 77mm bore for not a lot of cash. Exibit A

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-CRF-250R-77mm-NAMURA-HYPERDRYVE-PISTON-KIT-STD-BORE-2010-2013-/191133562099?hash=item2c8072b4f3:g:0b0AAOSwofxUlyez

[RobbyKo]

Wondering if that would work in Type 1 with such a short skirt ?
 See same for 1603cc  ;-))
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-XR-400R-86mm-NAMURA-PISTON-KIT-040-1996-2004/181769143157?epid=928085087&hash=item2a52490375:g:z-IAAOSwwTlUly3R

[slowlearner]

Well, I do have a TP1600 lying around too... and these pistons are slightly cheaper... hmm.

Did you start building your motor yet Robby?

[RobbyKo]

Up to end of September I worked every free minute to get my car once again street legal, after 25 years, but with an interim 1600cc engine and dual 40 idf. So ist done and worked very well at a trip from Germany to Sicilia and back. Now as winter time is coming I´ll start. Do have some parts currently at the machine shop...When I got every part back together I will post some photos and then start ;-)

[RobbyKo]

...just thinking about a second, paralell project beside the 1776cc, which might fit better to a smooth running´´Historic`` Street Sport Engine...

- AS41 case with ftting sleeves and Gene Berg case nuts/thick washers
- 1584 cc with forged and lightened Mahle Pistons  with light tool steel wrist pins
    (or e.g. lightweight JE or  Woessner Opel , Honda motorbike or whatever pistons to get less compression height and narrow engine case?)
- DPR 69 counterweighted crank (based on VW forgings)
- VW rods lightend and polished or shot peaned
- JPS 3,4 kg 200mm flywheel
- Kennedy stage 2 clutch
- 043 heads, or maybe CB Panchitos for good cooling capabilities, with modified 40 / 35 mm stainless steel valves
   Does anybody has got experience with the CB Panchitos?
- Single Orteva 75 springs with titanium retainers
- Scat rockers 1,4:1 lightened
- 60 g Udo Becker lifters or 53g Thorsten Pieper
- JPS Alu pushrods 10mm/6mm ca. 44g
- CSP streetsport competition exhaust

...but with restriction to dual 40mm 68/69 IDFs and max. 10,5:1 compression ratio to get an engine more reliable with pump gas

But now the question:  Which cam would fit best cam to get most power out of it and to get a good reving engine? No idea if I would get near or over 7000 rpm...

[slowlearner]

Congrats on getting the car back on the road. Looking forward to seeing your build.

[BeetleBug]

...just thinking about a second, paralell project beside the 1776cc, which might fit better to a smooth running´´Historic`` Street Sport Engine...

- AS41 case with ftting sleeves and Gene Berg case nuts/thick washers
- 1584 cc with forged and lightened Mahle Pistons  with light tool steel wrist pins
    (or e.g. lightweight JE or  Woessner Opel , Honda motorbike or whatever pistons to get less compression height and narrow engine case?)
- DPR 69 counterweighted crank (based on VW forgings)
- VW rods lightend and polished or shot peaned
- JPS 3,4 kg 200mm flywheel
- Kennedy stage 2 clutch
- 043 heads, or maybe CB Panchitos for good cooling capabilities, with modified 40 / 35 mm stainless steel valves
   Does anybody has got experience with the CB Panchitos?
- Single Orteva 75 springs with titanium retainers
- Scat rockers 1,4:1 lightened
- 60 g Udo Becker lifters or 53g Thorsten Pieper
- JPS Alu pushrods 10mm/6mm ca. 44g
- CSP streetsport competition exhaust

...but with restriction to dual 40mm 68/69 IDFs and max. 10,5:1 compression ratio to get an engine more reliable with pump gas

But now the question:  Which cam would fit best cam to get most power out of it and to get a good reving engine? No idea if I would get near or over 7000 rpm...

'

My two cents:

1) Too much clutch
2) Too little spring pressure
3) I would go Mini Wedgeport
4) If not JPM cam then a Engle FK45
5) Add CR to kick the little mouse into life
6) Take into consideration that you later should replace the carbs with IDA`s. Not just for the looks... 

-BB-

[RobbyKo]

o.k. sounds like a plan, only problem: you can´t get mini wedges with 40/35mm valves and std. bore

[bedjo78]

i am preparing 1641cc ( 69 x 87 ) drag engine. it is a class limited with single carb 34 max.  I was thinking using fk8 with 1.4 rockers. heads 37 (40)  X 35 Stailess steel valve with psi springs. or is it posible using aluminum pushrod with single spring. I want to rev as high 8000 rpm shifting if posible with 34 carbs. carb will be run with 32 or no ventury.

any idea what best combination will work .

[Neil Davies]

Obviously a venturi is there to speed up air flow through the carb. With a 34mm max carb size, and eliminating the venturi, are you going to see any benefit? How about having an external venturi on top of the carb in place of (or underneath) a trumpet?

[bedjo78]

I was thinkin  at hight rpm. Air speed would be increase should be enough to suck fuel of the bowl.
This is just drag full open or close throttle.  idle and part throttle may be not right, but i dont need

Not sure if with 34 vent would able to rev to 8000

[HW]

40 years vs modern technology. 

[Joel Mohr]

1672, 65 x 90.5, 46 x 36 Clyde Berg large oval ports, Hemi cut, detailed chambers, Berg short IDA manifolds, Berg 37/42 venturis,  9.9 to 1, Web 86b, Mohr Performance 3 step header, makes 155 on 91 octane....

[modnrod]

I can hear it from here ....... 

65 stroke - Chev journals on a 69?