Original Empi 5's - how prone to grenading are they?

[jamiep_jamiep]

And would running inner tubes make any difference? Or do they have to do that anyway with them being two piece? I'm closing in on a set but have heard horror stories about them exploding on people when they fit tyres.... I like my tyre fitter and he gives me a good deal so don't wanna kill him!!! My car will also be used on the strip down to the 13's - how safe or unsafe would I be doing that on these wheels?

thanks guys!

[alex d]

I don't have experience with them, but I wouldn't fit them (or any other 40 year old fragile rim) in a 13 second car, JMHO

[Ivan]

I had an two piece 8 spoke EMPI shatter on me back in '89  when like the idiot I am, I gave the lug nut that one extra turn that I always seem to think feels essential...

But on the other hand, I have driven around on two piece fives and eights with not problems, cracks or problems. I don't have them any longer, but a friend in the town I live in runs OG fives on his Notch and they have a few small cracks.

There was a horror story about a five that exploded a while back and injured someone. I think it was when the  tire was popped up on the rim.

[speedwell]

the car was an white oval with goldish empi 5 andy spilkoman if i remember and the car was on cover of hot vws and there's a page with problem he had we the wheels who exploded

i ran my empi five at in 97  without problems , but when i put them on my 356A brakes drums nobody explain me that i put a spacer between the wheels and drums and now i've somes cracks on my wheels , never run the wheels  with the engine power , but the car was already towed drawn several times and not of problems until now
hope that will never arrive , that's my big fear  explode my empi 5

here's a links with another info about the five spoke http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,2222.msg28523.html#msg28523
read all the topic
rgd
fabs

[Cornpanzer]

I always questioned that story of the wheel exploding in my mind.  No doubt it exploded, but why?

As it was told to me, part of the rim was found imbedded in his neighbors house.  It had punctured the eaves and eneded up in the attic as I recall.  IMO, it would have taken a mighty amount of pressure to cause that catastrophic of a failure.  Much more pressure than you should be applying to any wheel....especially in your home workshop.

With that being said, there is no doubt that the Empi 5's are prone too cracking.  I remember looking at a really nice car at the DKP meet and noticing that one of the spokes was cracked almost a third of the way around.  I mentioned it to the owner when nobody was around and he was shocked.  He had just polished the wheels and there was no crack then.

I would never race on an old magnesium wheel!

[Ivan]

I always questioned that story of the wheel exploding in my mind.  No doubt it exploded, but why?

As it was told to me, part of the rim was found imbedded in his neighbors house.  It had punctured the eaves and eneded up in the attic as I recall.  IMO, it would have taken a mighty amount of pressure to cause that catastrophic of a failure.  Much more pressure than you should be applying to any wheel....especially in your home workshop.

With that being said, there is no doubt that the Empi 5's are prone too cracking.  I remember looking at a really nice car at the DKP meet and noticing that one of the spokes was cracked almost a third of the way around.  I mentioned it to the owner when nobody was around and he was shocked.  He had just polished the wheels and there was no crack then.

I would never race on an old magnesium wheel!


I would have to agree that it must have taken a lot of pressure to make the wheel explode. I've seen plenty of two-piece EMPIs that have not cracks at all. The wheel I shattered was down to me - not the wheel - I simply did it up too tight.
Equally, I have seen original EMPIs on VWs with cracks - I suppose the question is which type are prone to cracking is it just the ribbed ones? I don't know the answer to that question.

Anyway, when did they make EMPIs from magnesium?

[Jim M]

I have run empi 5 spokes of the early and late versions. You have to check them for cracks.I had the earlies on a 63 27 window microbus with a 1776 with no problems.I have owned some earlies with cracks but never ran them.I currently run mag brms with no issues.The bergs put quite a bit of power to theirs!I sold Andy S. a blue split and remember him telling me about the wheel explosion.If i remember correctly {dont quote me} the wheel was unbolted to do a tire change and upon inflating it, there was a problem with it seating the bead i think...Jim

[Turtle001]

been there ... done that 


the exploding of my empi 5 spoke almost teared the guys head off -- the top half was crashed into the roof

[SlingShot]

95% of the ones I have seen for sale, have cracks, been fixed or are just plain junk. If you do get a set, check them over for cracks, a couple of hair line cracks wont hurt, just use different wheels for racing.

[Bruce]

There are 2 very different versions of original EMPI 5s.  The difference is in the webbing on the backside.  The later ones are a LOT stronger than the early ones.  I also believe the late ones use a steel insert for the lug holes.

The question is, are these cracking and exploding wheels noted above, early, late, or both types?  I'm willing to bet the majority are the early type.

[jamiep_jamiep]

Thanks for all the info guys... thin I'll just keep run my BRM replicas!!!!

[deano]

Just FYI, these original Empi 5-spokes were cracking back in the early '70s.... so it is nothing new to their design and makeup.

[John Rayburn]

I had one of my NON cracked 5's grenade just going down the street at 40 mph.Imagine if that would've happened the night before going down the track at OCIR!

[Turtle001]

mine were early ones

[Ivan]

I had one of my NON cracked 5's grenade just going down the street at 40 mph.Imagine if that would've happened the night before going down the track at OCIR!

I think that says it all John!

Equally imagine if it happened as you were pulling hard in fourth on the quarter.  Not a good thought!

[dyno don]

having both the early sets and later i had great luck with both for years...the important issue is running inner liners along with the inner tube...being magnesium they are porus and will leak especially with no bead lock on the outer rim ...you can also silicone the halves and seal the inner material with a good sealer  and get ok results if wanting to forgo the tubes...as with early brms/eight spokes/five spokes/etc...they were all fragile and most all ended up being cracked..!! equal torque settings is helpful as well when bolting together  ...years ago i had sold a set of empi five spokes to someone in japan who sold them to their customer and they went to install the tires onto the rims with a tire machine and upon the pressure it exploded nearly beheading the innocent owner and ended up getting him over 180 stitches in their head..!! i dont recommend anything under 155/15's ....or tire machines..!!

[mg]

been there ... done that 

the exploding of my empi 5 spoke almost teared the guys head off -- the top half was crashed into the roof

Good to hear people warning others of old mag rim failure stories.
In the 80s my set of polished 5 spokes cracked.
I'd stay away from 40 year old magneseum rims, safer to collect all the other neat old non structural vintage stuff.
Crack check your old rims on a regular basis, early detection may prevent a catastrophic failure.
I certainly would never advocate trusting a cracked rim.

[nicolas]

OK so 5 spokes seem to have a explosive history, but what about 8 spokes. i would like to have a set one day with some slicks on them. just 2 with slicks for tracks only, but i am not looking for a set of grenades on the back of the car. i have some with cracks, but only small haircracks. off course they will be repaired before using them. i believe a good welder can make them as strong as before. otherwise welding up heads would be a foolish thing to do as well. Or not?

[Jon]

What could be done to minimize the chance of cracking the wheels? Are they perfectly flat against the drum, or should they be "skimmed off" in the mounting surface?

[Georg/DFL]

OK so 5 spokes seem to have a explosive history, but what about 8 spokes. i would like to have a set one day with some slicks on them. just 2 with slicks for tracks only, but i am not looking for a set of grenades on the back of the car. i have some with cracks, but only small haircracks. off course they will be repaired before using them. i believe a good welder can make them as strong as before. otherwise welding up heads would be a foolish thing to do as well. Or not?

Christian/DFL had original 8 spokes on his car last year at Bug In. When he mounted the wheels there were no cracks, after 40 Kilometers on the road two of them had cracks! So I wouldn't recommend them for racing.
Jürgen/DFL has OG Empi 5s for the street and two Enkei 5s with slicks for the strip. You could use the MWS 8 spokes Mk II with the screw on center cap for slicks. New wheels with old looks and save at the same time.

[nicolas]

if they look like the original ones i am up for a set of those in the future. first save up some money. and ask around if someone has a second hand set they want to part with.
thank you. but does anyone have a picture of those wheels? sorry to highjack the post a little. but i saw there are 5 spokes as well on their site 

[John Rayburn]

I had one of my NON cracked 5's grenade just going down the street at 40 mph.Imagine if that would've happened the night before going down the track at OCIR!

I think that says it all John!

Equally imagine if it happened as you were pulling hard in fourth on the quarter.  Not a good thought!

                                                     Ivan, that's why I pulled them off and ended up with one piece heavy steel Sprintstars on the car for so long. The idea of what would've happened the night before is pretty scary!

[danny gabbard]

I have noticed on a nos second gen 5 spoke that I have that the casting was pretty ruff were the half's come together and mate. I had to deburr some edge's so that the two half's would mate . I also have a wheel that I'm useing as spare only, that hit a pole and a curb and wasted the front beam on car and only chipped wheel. Just my two cent's but the first gen 5 spoke's were prone to cracking, split the two halfs on first and second gen wheels and look at the radius in the corner's of were they mate plus the webing, And ya there not the most enginered wheel i've ever seen.

[John Rayburn]

I think alot of it is just plain old metal fatigue.

[danny gabbard]

what were the liner's that dyno was talking about, and you guyz got me alittle worried after seeing those picture's ,I alway's thought it was the outer's that took the big shit. I got 4 nos 2nd gen wheel's but there not going to be daily driven either

[John Rayburn]

How do you like them apples?

[danny gabbard]

WHAT....you mean It can't be welded together? fricken scary john, All I know is that shit better not happen to me, I'm praying as we speak, to the empi GOD

[danny gabbard]

the few I have welded on the early one's seemed alot more brittle as far as material goe's and it might be my imagination but the early one's seemed to turn more black, like there was some kind of alum-mag alloy

[John Rayburn]

You should've seen what it did to the fender.... Real carnage!

[John Rayburn]

The lates were just as brittle, like potato chips.