Help choosing a linkage for 44IDF'S?

[Prowagen]

Hi guys,

I have been running a hex bar linkage kit on my bug for a while and always seem to get problems with the springs and end locators on the carb base plates. So I have decided to replace it, it was after all a cheap kit, i think its a CB copy, I got it from a guy second hand and theres no identifying marks.

So whats the best route to go? I like the look of the CSP bell crank linkage, its also fairly cheap.
But on the other hand I love the look of the Berg! But do these only work with berg manifolds? Also is it worth paying double what the CSP one is? Afterall the car isn't show standard it gets driven almost as a daily.

Any info/experience would be greatly recieved.

Thanks,
Rob.

[nicolas]

i like the CSP one. good quality and looks good as well.

[Jim Ratto]

Hi guys,

I have been running a hex bar linkage kit on my bug for a while and always seem to get problems with the springs and end locators on the carb base plates. So I have decided to replace it, it was after all a cheap kit, i think its a CB copy, I got it from a guy second hand and theres no identifying marks.

So whats the best route to go? I like the look of the CSP bell crank linkage, its also fairly cheap.
But on the other hand I love the look of the Berg! But do these only work with berg manifolds? Also is it worth paying double what the CSP one is? Afterall the car isn't show standard it gets driven almost as a daily.

Any info/experience would be greatly recieved.

Thanks,
Rob.

Hi Rob.

When I first ran 44IDFs I ran the Redline/Weber linkage that came with the kit, along with the Redline manifolds.
No complaints with Redline linkage, except it requires return springs at carbs, and center arm where cable goes is short. Both of these issues make the pedal stiff. If the arm was longer, you'd get more leverage with your foot. But for carbs opening same time, and staying adjusted, the Redline linkage was great.
I ran it for 18 months and then went to Berg fan-shroud mount type. The pedal is much smoother and less stiff. It did work with Redline manifolds and KN filters....no issues.
I still run Berg with my 48IDAs. The few things I do not like about Berg Linkage are: the little supports that support the cross-rod do wear out over time, even if you lube them.....the original swivel ends wear out (seemingly quick), and the drop rods from cross rod to throttles are not L&R threads so adjustment means undoing swivel ends to change length. Or as the Berg book says, you can "twist" the upper drop arms with a small wrench or pliers, but I don't like doing that...though, sometimes that's the only way to get carbs to open same time.
For what it's worth, I also ran Tayco cross bar with 48IDAs, and it was ok....not near the quality of Berg. Problems with it were:
engine warmed up, the locating balls that center cross bar move away from each other and bar gets sloppy...making it impossible for carbs to open same time.....center arm for cable is too short. I ran a return spring at center arm only...a long one that I hooked over "backside" of cable arm and other end to lower 6mm bolt that attaches backing plate to fan shroud. I ran it for a week or so and ended up going back to Berg.
Tried push-pull linkage from GWD on my ex's Super Beetle with 40IDF, didn't like it at all....horrible linkage. Went with Berg.

[Jim Ratto]

PS on the Berg swivel ends, I found a snowmobile catalog that sells same thread swivel ends WITH rubber boots.

[bluestar]

the price is not same !!
I think Berg linkage is very good ( look and qualitat ) , you just need to change the ball ( rotules ??).

[Christoph]

if you want a bellcrank linkage check out this one:

http://www.jkm-tuning.com/docs/pd-732738797.htm
click on the pics for some details

not cheap, but good quality!

[Sam K]

I started off with the redline/weber stuff, after a while upgraded to the CB linkage but since I bought the Berg, I've been very happy. It seems to stay in sync longer that other brands and has a better pedal feel. I don't think I've broken a throttle cable since I got the berg either. Of course, if you have an aftermarket fan shroud, you have to make the middle hole on the linkage longer, but that's not a big deal.

[airstuff]

I also plan to run Redline Weber linkage I got with the carbs.On my 44 idf

But I like the looks of the Scat centerpull linkage.

[airstuff]

I was thinking of making a bearing,something like this rolle for the redline linkage:

[Gunter]

thanks for the good comments on the CSP one
off course made in Germany
we bring stuff over to the BugIn
so you could see our quality at the show on display
hope you like, thanks for the interest

[Prowagen]

thanks for the good comments on the CSP one
off course made in Germany
we bring stuff over to the BugIn
so you could see our quality at the show on display
hope you like, thanks for the interest

Gunter maybe you could do me a special deal at VoWo show,  when me and my friend pic up our cal look books, bug in books and issues of Street VW's?

Thanks,
Rob.

[Prowagen]

Hi Rob.

When I first ran 44IDFs I ran the Redline/Weber linkage that came with the kit, along with the Redline manifolds.
No complaints with Redline linkage, except it requires return springs at carbs, and center arm where cable goes is short. Both of these issues make the pedal stiff. If the arm was longer, you'd get more leverage with your foot. But for carbs opening same time, and staying adjusted, the Redline linkage was great.
I ran it for 18 months and then went to Berg fan-shroud mount type. The pedal is much smoother and less stiff. It did work with Redline manifolds and KN filters....no issues.
I still run Berg with my 48IDAs. The few things I do not like about Berg Linkage are: the little supports that support the cross-rod do wear out over time, even if you lube them.....the original swivel ends wear out (seemingly quick), and the drop rods from cross rod to throttles are not L&R threads so adjustment means undoing swivel ends to change length. Or as the Berg book says, you can "twist" the upper drop arms with a small wrench or pliers, but I don't like doing that...though, sometimes that's the only way to get carbs to open same time.
For what it's worth, I also ran Tayco cross bar with 48IDAs, and it was ok....not near the quality of Berg. Problems with it were:
engine warmed up, the locating balls that center cross bar move away from each other and bar gets sloppy...making it impossible for carbs to open same time.....center arm for cable is too short. I ran a return spring at center arm only...a long one that I hooked over "backside" of cable arm and other end to lower 6mm bolt that attaches backing plate to fan shroud. I ran it for a week or so and ended up going back to Berg.
Tried push-pull linkage from GWD on my ex's Super Beetle with 40IDF, didn't like it at all....horrible linkage. Went with Berg.

Thanks for the info Jim, looks like my linkage is an old redline/webber one then as it has a short arm that the accelorator cable attaches to, this does make the foot pedal a bit inconsistent. Also I have issues with it wearing on the hex bar mounts either end, then the whole bar soes sloppy and I have to get new springs and ball ends.

I love the look of the Berg and if mine is a weber kit then it should fit with those manifolds, but judging buy what you say with the adjustment and thewearing of the swivel ends maybe this isn't such a good idea for a regularly driven bug?

thanks,
Rob.

[John Rayburn]

I've run just about every type of linkage and would never trade my Berg linkage. You don't need their manifolds, you can run whatever you want. Just be carefull of the throttle stops that they don't bind and stick your linkage wide open. It operates smooth and positive, and I love the " utilitarian" look about it.

[Donny B.]

What John said.  Heck I had about 100K miles on my 1776 engine with the Berg linkage on it when I sold the engine.  Never had a problem.  Keep it lubed!

[Prowagen]

Thanks for all the info/experience guys really appreciate it!

Still not made my mind up, I know what I really want, but is it just a luxury!

Cheers,
Rob.

[qubek]

I was thinking of making a bearing,something like this rolle for the redline linkage:

The easier way is to relocate the tube which guides the throttle cable thorough the fan shroud. You can drill a second hole in the shroud and move the tube's end slightly up. Helps a lot. 

I found a pic of my girlfriend's engine, you can see how it's done:

[pimp incher too]

i placed the csp linkage always becouse it is the best quality for the best price,never had troubles with the linkage! you don't find a better. nothing have to change,what you get is the complete set,use it like it is.

regards,leslie

[richie]

I've run just about every type of linkage and would never trade my Berg linkage. You don't need their manifolds, you can run whatever you want. Just be carefull of the throttle stops that they don't bind and stick your linkage wide open. It operates smooth and positive, and I love the " utilitarian" look about it.

Sorry John,I thought it was junk and threw it in the trash   at least I am sure Dave said it was trash  

cheers richie,uk

[John Rayburn]

My pal!