Help,please!

[airstuff]

I just received my new CB crankshaft and the lightened flywheel.

The problem is,the cb crankshaft dowels just don't want to fully seat into the flywheel dowel holes.



What can be done?

[BeetleBug]

I just received my new CB crankshaft and the lightened flywheel.

The problem is,the cb crankshaft dowels just don't want to fully seat into the flywheel dowel holes.

What can be done?

Tight is good! Are you sure you`re not able to press it down? I used 3/100 press fit on both dowels and flywheel and believe me, that was tight.

[airstuff]

Hi,

I was thinking of torking it down with the gland nut,maybe it will go on.

Here is a pic i took just now:

I center the dowels over the holes,and the flywheel sits just on the upper edges of the dowels.When I try to push it hard it won't go on.

[airstuff]

I mean,if it goes on with so much trouble now,I will have a hard time with it assembling the motor,because I will have to measure end play while it is on the table,then again when the shortblock is together.

Can I drill the holes in the flywheel a bit larger??

Oh Gee....

This is my first real HIGH Performance building experience when I do It from scratch.


It is the 69mm CB performance crank but sold by DRD racing heads(I thought DRD made their own stuff).I got it today from the states.Iit's supposed to be nitrited as the seller advertises.

Here's the crank and the flywheel:

[BeetleBug]

Thats exactly the way I did it. Scat bolt and a torque gun, then replace the bolt with a new one and, locktite and torque to spec. And yes, it does take a little more effort but I rather have a flywheel that stay on it`s place. Full weight 65, DOT slicks, 2221 ccm, 12.50 and 1,63 60. 

[richie]

I mean,if it goes on with so much trouble now,I will have a hard time with it assembling the motor,because I will have to measure end play while it is on the table,then again when the shortblock is together.

Can I drill the holes in the flywheel a bit larger??

Oh Gee....

I am new to this whole Performance building stuff,and this is my first real engine project.

It is the 69mm CB performance crank but sold by DRD racing heads(I thought DRD made their own stuff).I got it today from the states.Iit's supposed to be nitrited as the seller advertises.

Here's the crank and the flywheel:

You dont need to assemble it to set the end play,you can measure it apart,you just need a good depth micrometer and the rear bearing you are going to use,if you want the info PM me and I will help you through it,and yes they are supposed to be tight but once you have out it down the first time it does become easier.
And no Darren @ DRD doesnt make anything,he is just a resaler for other companys parts.

cheers richie,uk

[besserwisser]

This problem has become almost an industri standard. You can only get a good fit if the flywheel and crank are drilled together. I dont think pressing it on when it doeesnt fit is a good idea. You will be putting a lot of stress on an already weak point of the flywheel. I usually put Dykem coulor on the dowels to find which ones are missing the target. I then hone the holes a minimum to make it fit. This problem is one reason why I never buy cranks with eightdowels and drilled flywheels because they never fit. If you buy Scat cranks you can get them with eight holes but without dowels. That way you can drill your own flywheel to fit. To cure the problem totaly in this case I would pull the dowels out of the crank (not an easy task) and redrill them together with oversize dowels (11/32). Are you sure DRDsold you a cb crank? Iknow for a fact that he resells cranks from Grab Speed Components.

[AutoManics]

Heat the flywheel, should make all the difference you need.

[airstuff]

This problem has become almost an industri standard. You can only get a good fit if the flywheel and crank are drilled together. I dont think pressing it on when it doeesnt fit is a good idea. You will be putting a lot of stress on an already weak point of the flywheel. I usually put Dykem coulor on the dowels to find which ones are missing the target. I then hone the holes a minimum to make it fit. This problem is one reason why I never buy cranks with eightdowels and drilled flywheels because they never fit. If you buy Scat cranks you can get them with eight holes but without dowels. That way you can drill your own flywheel to fit. To cure the problem totaly in this case I would pull the dowels out of the crank (not an easy task) and redrill them together with oversize dowels (11/32). Are you sure DRDsold you a cb crank? Iknow for a fact that he resells cranks from Grab Speed Components.

It states CB69 and GSC on the crank.CB 69 on the rear main counterweight.

[airstuff]

I don't really want to pull the dowels out and drill it again.I don't have the right equipment to do it,nor do we have a qualified machinist to do it.

What I will try myself tomorrow is to heat the flywheel,if that won't be enough than i would ream the holes in the flywheel and make them little bigger.

[besserwisser]

GSC stands for Grab Speed Components or maybe G Serrano Company. Beats Me.

[jr59]

Well as someone told you,try to bolt it down the dowel like this,and check how the flywheel seat on the crank .
I already have this kind of problem and most of the time we had to replace the dowel because the flywheel wasn't turning round and by the way we couldn't balance  the parts!
Hope you will be more lukiy than us!

[BeetleBug]

Heat the flywheel, should make all the difference you need.

Agree! It`s incedible what a little heat and cold can do, look at these movies and you should get the point;

Part 1; http://www.streetvw.se/filmer/axel.wmv
Part 2; http://www.streetvw.se/filmer/jiiihaa.wmv

[airstuff]

Hi guys,

Today I tried to heat it up,but there are no changes.Also after heating I tapped it hard with the rubber mallet.

Dowels start to make signs about half of mm from the edge of the dowel holes(only two dowels).

I didn't try to torque it with the gun,because I am afraid of ruining the flywheel.

[airstuff]

GSC stands for Grab Speed Components or maybe G Serrano Company. Beats Me.

Here it is:

[airstuff]

here are some pics,so you can see the dowel holes and the dowels.You can't see much from the pics but....





My first task is to contact the seller and to try and find a resolvable solution to this problem with him.I'll send him mail in the afternoon.

Then,If there won't be any success with that,I will try to find someone here in Europe who can fix that crank for me.

International shipping charges are very high,and not to mention customs and their charges here in Croatia.

Here In Croatia,we simply don't have the qualified machinist who could try to fix the crank with oversized dowels.

But let's wait and see...

All your opinions are welcome.

[jr59]

well,if you really have a matching problem between crank and flywheel (that's often accure with today crank/flywheel) the only way to fix it is to check the dowel size and the hole on the flywheel.Sometime the hole are slightly undersized so ream by hand (with a reamer)those to the size of the dowell can in this case make the solution.
Underneath you have  to buy the fixture to drill the 8 dowell sold by all the good shop and find a good machine shop who can use it to modifie your parts
Good luck

[airstuff]

well,if you really have a matching problem between crank and flywheel (that's often accure with today crank/flywheel) the only way to fix it is to check the dowel size and the hole on the flywheel.Sometime the hole are slightly undersized so ream by hand (with a reamer)those to the size of the dowell can in this case make the solution.
Underneath you have  to buy the fixture to drill the 8 dowell sold by all the good shop and find a good machine shop who can use it to modifie your parts
Good luck

I've measured all the holes in the flywheel,they are 8mm all.I put the 8mm drill through them and it goes in,but needs slightly more centering.

I have the flywheel/crank dowelling tool,boroved it from a friend.

[airstuff]

I heated the flywheel and have frozen the crank in the freezer

But still it didn't help

It looks like two dovels are off center,so maybe I will ream them.

[besserwisser]

I only make the holes bigger when they are of by very little. In your case It seems as the sollution is 11/32 but pulling out the Chineese dowels is very hard and the chance of them breaking is big. Gene Berg ones wrote that if your parts are not drilled together you might as well stay with four dowels and a new bolt with large washer. I tend to agree. Honing the holes that dont fit is one method but you can also grind of some material on the side of the dowel that doesnt fit. At this point you just make it fit and live with the fact that 6dowels is enough if you have a good quality glandnut. I could help you but Sweden is to far away from Croatia. Love your country,spent a holiday sailing around Split last year. Have some loose plans of driving my 66 bug down to Greece after the summer.

[airstuff]

Is there anyone qualified in Austria who can fix my crank?

[Airspeed]

It hasn't come up yet, so I'll say it, but you have noticed one dowel is (deliberately) off-center right? ...meaning they only fit together in one position...
Just in case 

[sam P]

Try to take out the bad dowels, and when you manage to get the flywheel on the crank with less dowels, bolt them together and make sure you measure with micrometer that the flywheel is centered on the crank within vw tolerance. I've had the same problem once, and even with 7 dowels installed it was off center.
Sad enough,you just can't trust too many parts. Good luck.

[airstuff]

It hasn't come up yet, so I'll say it, but you have noticed one dowel is (deliberately) off-center right? ...meaning they only fit together in one position...
Just in case 

Heh,yeah I know that,you can see from the picture that it is wright on the track to come in

[airstuff]

Today I managed to do something.Firstly,I didn't have the right tools to torque down the flywheel,I went to 3 shops and nobody had the 38mm socket for the Scat chromoly glandnut.

So I found the original 36mm bolt and borrowed the socket from a friend,and went to torque it down with the wider Scat washer.While I was holding it,friend was torquing it down.

Before trying to bolt/torque it down,I reamed holes just a little bit with a hand.I screwed the bolt down with hand,because I think the torque gun would damage the flywheel too much.What happend now,pins went to the hole,but there's still space between the crank and the flywheel.

Wright now,I can't get the crank off the flywheel,but that's still success in comparison that it didn't want to go through the holes

I will try to tap it down with the rubber hammer/mallet,and afterwards see where the pins made space for themselves.

What's bothering me now,is there a chance that the flywheel would be off centar for the balance,If I torque it down far more ??

[airstuff]

I will tell you guys what is really sad and dissapointing from the seller.

When I was buying the crank and the flywheel,I specifficaly mentioned that I want the dynamic balancing job done of the complete assembly,and I asked how much does it cost!!?

Seller said: Oh,it's nothing it's free of charge for you,you don't have to pay anything,I'll do the balance job free.

I trusted him.....stupid me....

But what's really sad,this flywheel and the crankshaft were never ever really bolted together,so how the hell would they be balanced,if they even don't fit!!

I wanted it balanced there,because I knew that there isn't any option for me to balance the assembly here in Croatia.

There are options to do it in Graz/Austria,and then Germany,many places but that's to far.

Ah.............

[airstuff]

I only make the holes bigger when they are of by very little. In your case It seems as the sollution is 11/32 but pulling out the Chineese dowels is very hard and the chance of them breaking is big. Gene Berg ones wrote that if your parts are not drilled together you might as well stay with four dowels and a new bolt with large washer. I tend to agree. Honing the holes that dont fit is one method but you can also grind of some material on the side of the dowel that doesnt fit. At this point you just make it fit and live with the fact that 6dowels is enough if you have a good quality glandnut. I could help you but Sweden is to far away from Croatia. Love your country,spent a holiday sailing around Split last year. Have some loose plans of driving my 66 bug down to Greece after the summer.

Hi besserwisser,

If I won't  have any options after I try to do it my way,I will have to use 11/32 dowels,If the whole thing is off center.

I'm glad that you love Croatian sea.

[richie]

I will tell you guys what is really sad and dissapointing from the seller Darren Gurolla.

When I was buying the crank and the flywheel,I specifficaly mentioned that I want the dynamic balancing job done of the complete assembly,and I asked how much does it cost!!?

Darren said: Oh,it's nothing it's free of charge for you,you don't have to pay anything,I'll do the balance job free.

I trusted him.....stupid me....

But what's really sad,this flywheel and the crankshaft were never ever really bolted together,so how the hell would they be balanced,if they even don't fit!!

I wanted it balanced there,because I knew that there isn't any option for me to balance the assembly here in Croatia.

There are options to do it in Graz/Austria,and then Germany,many places but that's to far.

Ah.............

Most of the time the crank and flywheel are balanced seperatly[the flywheel would have the clutch cover bolted to it],they could well be balanced still

cheers richie,uk

[Udo]

Is there anyone qualified in Austria who can fix my crank?

Hi
If you want to fix it with bigger dowel pins only use Gene Berg ones , i use them with all cranks , they are the only ones i know that are strong enough .

Udo

[airstuff]

Is there anyone qualified in Austria who can fix my crank?

Hi
If you want to fix it with bigger dowel pins only use Gene Berg ones , i use them with all cranks , they are the only ones i know that are strong enough .

Udo

How much would it cost to fix the crank and to get it all balanced properly?