Help,please!

[airstuff]

Some success is here,as I mentioned but done with force and that's not good.

Still space left between the crank and the flywheel.

[Udo]

Sorry but i think this is one of the problems with cheaper cranks . I have seen some of this from my customers at cranks they showed me , the other problem i see is that the material is more soft than scat or german cranks . The only way to fix it is to install 11/32 dowel pins with the flywheel bolt on .

Udo

[qubek]

Sorry but i think this is one of the problems with cheaper cranks . I have seen some of this from my customers at cranks they showed me , the other problem i see is that the material is more soft than scat or german cranks . The only way to fix it is to install 11/32 dowel pins with the flywheel bolt on .
Udo

Few questions:
- Wouldn't the easiest way be to ditch this flywheel, take some original one, lighten it and drill the holes in it using crank as a patern?
- Udo, talking about cheaper, softer cranks - this sounds as a good starting point for a new topic. Which ones do you concider inferior? I mean : I thought that CB ones should be OK, but the truth is, they are much cheaper than Scats for example and I wonder why.
- Another can of worms would be to ask - when can we use original, non counterweighted crank? I can hear all the Americans yelling "never" or "up to 5500rpms" but this does not seem to be a firm rule in Scandinavia for example. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is what I've noticed. I just wonder what is better - use a good, original crank and balance it properly, or spend money on a counterweighted 69 mm crank, which does give you nothing in terms of increasing engine capacity, which is heavy and which is probably of much inferior quality compering to the German one.
I know that only the first question is on topic, sorry.       

 

[Udo]

they are much cheaper than Scats for example and I wonder why.

This is because Scats are made in USA and others in china . Scat offers made in China too but they make a difference in the price .
I wonder about Buckpacks , perhaps Rick Saddler or Dominik can give us some infos 
When i watch the pictures in this topic he got an empi crank and a CB flywheel , seems it does not work .

Udo

[airstuff]

they are much cheaper than Scats for example and I wonder why.

This is because Scats are made in USA and others in china . Scat offers made in China too but they make a difference in the price .
I wonder about Buckpacks , perhaps Rick Saddler or Dominik can give us some infos 
When i watch the pictures in this topic he got an empi crank and a CB flywheel , seems it does not work .

Udo

Hi Udo,

you think this crank is really made by EMPI?I know the cores are made there,but was it also finished as an Empi crank.............

It has both markings GSC and CB69 with big letters,so it sure is a faker :-\What can you get better for $225.

Udo,how do you know that the fylwheel is made by CB Performance?How can I see that.

Here are some todays pictures.It was very very hard for me to snap off the flywheel of the crank.My hand started hurting how much I have been tapping with the rubber mallet.

Here are some pics of the flywheel holes:

[airstuff]

Talked about the problem with the seller.

[besserwisser]

Just curious if your crank is std on all journals since I´ve seen GSC cranks being reground in LA. They were to much of on the journals. I have never seen cranks with both CB and GSC at the same time. My opinion is that someone is trying to pull a fast one.It is time people start realizing that with internet every bit of shit will hit the fan ,sooner or later.

[airstuff]

Just curious if your crank is std on all journals since I´ve seen GSC cranks being reground in LA. They were to much of on the journals. I have never seen cranks with both CB and GSC at the same time. My opinion is that someone is trying to pull a fast one.It is time people start realizing that with internet every bit of shit will hit the fan ,sooner or later.

Hi besserwiser,

how can i check that?What is the standard VW journal size,so i can compare

[besserwisser]

Standard size is 55mm on the rods and mains. With a micrometer they will probably be 1hundreds under.

[airstuff]

Standard size is 55mm on the rods and mains. With a micrometer they will probably be 1hundreds under.

just cheked it with the Vernier Caliper

they all are 55mm  Something is wright at least

[Scott Novak]

Gene Berg recommended match reaming the flywheel and crankshaft while bolted together using a reamer with a very slight taper ground into it. 

The dowel pins should have a press fit of 0.0012" to 0.0018" into the crankshaft and  0.0002" to 0.0005" into the flywheel.

I bought one of his taper ground reamers years ago and have used it a number of times with great success.

BEFORE I insert the dowel pins into the crankshaft, I bolt on the flywheel with an old gland nut with OILED threads.  NEVER bolt on a gland nut without lubrication. WITHOUT the flywheel O-Ring installed, I set the crankshaft end play.  I check the depth of the holes in the flywheel and add that to the flywheel thickness to make sure that the holes have been drilled deeply enough so the dowel pins won't protrude past the flywheel.  Scat dowel pins are too long in my opinion, and their dimensions are not held closely enough.  I have used Scat dowel pins in the past, but not any more.  Now I only use Gene Berg dowel pins because they control the dowel pin diameter and length very closely.

I made a fixture to bolt the crankshaft and flywheel together.  I used an old gland nut, cut off the hex head and removed the pilot bearing inside the gland nut.  I ground the hex head of a bolt round and with a slight taper and put the bolt through the gland nut and brazed the bolt to the remaining threaded portion of the gland nut.  The end of the bolt has a hole cross drilled through the bolt so I can insert a rod to hold the bolt while I tighten a nut to lock the flywheel and crankshaft together.

I screw this bolt assembly  into the crankshaft.  I have a huge washer with a small hole in it that the bolt passes through that goes over the flywheel.  I filed recesses in the washer for access to four of the dowel pin holes.  It looks similar to a cross with a hole in the middle.  I screw a nut onto the end of the bolt and then insert a rod through the bolt.  Holding the rod so the bolt won't turn inside the crankshaft, I tighten the nut over the cross shaped washer which locks the flywheel and crankshaft together

I match ream the four holes that I have access to through the recesses in the washer.  I tap in a couple of slightly undersize dowel pins to hold the crankshaft and flywheel position.  Then I loosen the bolt and rotate the cross shaped washer to expose the other four holes and then tighten the nut.  Then I match ream the remaining four holes.  Then I unbolt the fixture and separate the crankshaft and flywheel.  I use a countersink bit to slightly chamfer the holes in the crankshaft and flywheel.  This is important!  You don't want a dowel pin to get hung up on a sharp edge of a hole.  Then I clean all of the holes in the crankshaft and flywheel.

When it comes time for the final assembly and have triple checked everything, I add a light coat of oil on the graphited O-ring and install it into the flywheel.  I clean the threads inside the crankshaft with acetone to remove any traces of oil.  I also clean the threads of my gland nut with acetone.  I add Loctite Sleeve and Bearing Retainer #620 to the threads of the crankshaft and gland nut.  Loctite is adequate lubrication while tightening the gland nut.

I put the flywheel onto the crankshaft.  I drive each dowel pin through the flywheel and into the crankshaft just a little bit, until I have all eight dowel pins partially installed.  Then I carefully drive the dowel pins in until they are driven in just below the surface of the flywheel.

I install the ground washer and gland nut and tighten it with a breaker bar.  I take a heavy brass hammer and everytime I pull the breaker bar tight, I whack the end of the breaker bar and socket which helps to make sure that there is no gap between the  flywheels and crankshaft.  I whack and tighten, whack and tighten.  You can tell when it is tight because the sound changes from being thuddy, to ringing when you have driven the flywheel completely onto the dowel pins.  Then I use a torque wrench to tighten the gland nut to 320 lbs for a stock gland nut and 350 lbs for a Gene Berg forged gland nut.

You want to do this quickly before the Loctite begins to set up.  Once you start, you don't stop for anything until you are finished.  Have EVERYTHING set up before your start.  I have a bar bolted to the flywheel to hold it while I torque the gland nut.  But I bolt it on BEFORE I screw in the gland nut.  Make sure that you have already set your torque wrench in advance.

If you try to simply tighten the gland nut to pull the flywheel tight, it might not pull together completely.  You have to whack the end of the socket while you tighten the gland nut

I insert cotton tipped swabs through the bearing inside the gland nut and remove any excess Loctite that has squeezed out.  I let the Loctite cure for at least 24 hours before starting the engine.

I have never had a flywheel come loose when I have used this procedure.

Scott Novak

[Udo]

This is the best way , but most companies sell crank and flywheel separate , so they can not bore and ream bolted together .

Udo

[Roman]

When people say GSC , I think of G. Serrano Company. I have never had a CB or a GSC crank so I don't know what they stamp them with, but what happened to Serranos inventory?

[Peter]

WOW!
great explanation Scot!!!

[richie]

When people say GSC , I think of G. Serrano Company. I have never had a CB or a GSC crank so I don't know what they stamp them with, but what happened to Serranos inventory?

I have a feeling its now TDC VW parts but not 100%,just my feeling

cheers richie,uk

[Scott Novak]

Udo,

It's true that you can't match ream the existing size dowel holes that have already been drilled by someone else.

However, if the holes are 8 mm, you can drill and match ream to the 11/32" dowel pin size.

In this case, I don't know if the holes are poorly aligned between the crankshaft and flywheel, or if there might actually be a proper interference fit.

It may be all that is necessary is to tighten the gland nut with a wrench and then whack the socket end of the wrench with a heavy brass hammer while you are tightening the gland nut.  I would be tempted to use an old gland nut, lubricate the threads and try installing the crankshaft WITHOUT the O-ring and see if it is actually possible to draw the flywheel down tight to the crankshaft.

If it did work, you would still need to remove the flywheel to install the O-ring.  You need to be careful to pull the flywheel straight off.  If you try to wiggle the flywheel back and forth, you will elongate the dowel holes and make them useless.  I know it's extra work, but I wouldn't want to Loctite the gland nut until I knew positively that the flywheel fit properly over the dowel pins.

Scott Novak

[airstuff]

Today received the 82mm VW journal GSC chinese crankshaft.

It looks good to me,I found out that it has the bigger 11/32 dowels fitted.

Some journals are a liitle bit scratched,not to feel it with the finger nail,but to be safe I will have it cut 0.10 and build that damn engine